Rookie120 0 #1 November 10, 2007 QuoteBy CHARLES BABINGTON WASHINGTON (AP) - Congress is taking new whacks at the cigarette industry, banning tobacco sales in Senate buildings and - more importantly - seeking a significant federal tax increase on cigarettes. The industry, once a lobbying behemoth, is quietly working against the tax bill. But it lacks the clout it once wielded. Several key lawmakers said they have had no recent contacts with tobacco lobbyists. And both houses have signaled a willingness to raise the cigarette tax if other provisions of a children's health bill can be resolved. "I think the industry has tried to do things more quietly, largely because they obviously know how popular a tobacco tax is," said Ron Pollack, executive director of Families USA. The health advocacy group supports a proposed $35 billion increase in the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which a higher cigarette tax would finance. House and Senate negotiators are trying to craft a veto-proof version of the bill. President Bush says he would veto it because it calls for a 61 cents-per-pack increase in the federal excise tax on cigarettes, taking it to $1. The House came within about a dozen votes of overriding Bush's veto of a similar bill last month. The bill's supporters are offering to change program eligibility rules in hopes of picking up enough Republicans to make the revised bill veto-proof. The proposed cigarette tax increase is not at issue, leaders of both parties said. Philip Morris USA, the nation's largest cigarette maker, sponsors a Web site, mailings and a toll-free number urging people to ask Congress to sustain Bush's veto. "Taxing smokers is unfair," the materials say, adding that states have increased sales taxes on cigarettes 73 times since 2000. "We are sharing our position with legislators," Philip Morris spokesman Bill Phelps said in an interview. The company also has encouraged tobacco growers, retailers and wholesalers to get involved, he said. But tobacco's critics say health concerns have deeply eroded the industry's influence in Congress. "The country and elected officials have really made a turn," said Bill Corr, executive director of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. Cigarette companies, he said, "don't have the opportunity to go in and push members as much." The tobacco industry gave $3.5 million to federal campaigns and candidates in the 2006 election cycle, ranking 64th among major industry groups, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. Ten years earlier, it gave $10.5 million, ranking 26th. Some Democratic lawmakers have groused that House Minority Whip Roy Blunt, R-Mo., is married to a lobbyist who has worked for Philip Morris' parent company. Blunt, who is monitoring the children's health negotiations, says his wife no longer lobbies on tobacco issues. In a landmark 1998 settlement of many lawsuits, four major tobacco companies agreed to help states pay for smoking-related health care costs. They paid $52.6 billion from 2000 to 2005, the government reported. In some ways, tobacco's presence on Capitol Hill is literally waning. The Senate Rules Committee recently ordered shops in the Capitol and all Senate office buildings to end cigarette sales by Jan. 1. Cigarettes are still sold in the Longworth House Office Building. But last January, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., banned smoking in the ornate Speaker's Lobby, just off the House floor. "The days of smoke-filled rooms in the United States Capitol are over," she said, citing the risks of cancer and respiratory diseases. Other congressional actions could have a far greater impact on the industry. A Senate committee recently approved legislation that would, for the first time, allow federal regulation of cigarettes. The bill, also pending in the House, would require the Food and Drug Administration to restrict tobacco advertising, regulate warning labels and remove hazardous ingredients. So now they want more money from tobacco co's. What happened to the billions they got from them about 5 years ago. Oh that's right. They sold the money they were going be paid from them in bonds and spent the money on other bullshit. If they wanted money for health insurance why didnt they cut the pork out of the defense budget to pay for it?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 November 10, 2007 Quote why didnt they cut the pork out of the defense budget to pay for it? You some kind of ANTI-AMERICAN there BOY........aint no pork in Defense spending....its supporting the troops in time of war.... and how the hell do you think they pay for all those billions LOST in Iraq..to American Fiends of the Administration. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #3 November 11, 2007 QuoteAnd both houses have signaled a willingness to raise the cigarette tax if other provisions of a children's health bill can be resolved. They've gotta pay for health care somehow. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #4 November 11, 2007 Quote Quote why didnt they cut the pork out of the defense budget to pay for it? You some kind of ANTI-AMERICAN there BOY........aint no pork in Defense spending....its supporting the troops in time of war.... and how the hell do you think they pay for all those billions LOST in Iraq..to American Fiends of the Administration. Hits nail on head. Why don't they go after alcohol too? Oh. That would piss of the rich. I smoke and I know it's unhealthy. But I have insurance thanks to the UNION. I doubt I'll ever see a pension tho cause they are in bed w/ all the crooks too! Tired of sin taxes. Go after the rich corporations. I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #5 November 11, 2007 Quote Quote And both houses have signaled a willingness to raise the cigarette tax if other provisions of a children's health bill can be resolved. They've gotta pay for health care somehow. Did you see Oregon voted down an SCHIP type bill that would have been funded with an .84 per pack cig tax. The voters do know what they are trying to do. The Govener has already said that the people did not understand the question or were confused so he will bring up the vote again. Onther state (I cant remember which one) turned down state funding of a Stem Cell research center. That gov said to hell with them, we will build it any way. Kind of sounds like the amnesty bill Here is comes again"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #6 November 11, 2007 When the brilliant smokers end up with heart attacks and strokes and they become wards of te state if they are indigent. Who pays for that? Taxpayers. So why not nclude a steep user tax? And for the tobacco co's, they are the drug dealers, so if people quit due to cost and they lose profit - boo-hoo. I know you want to defend any and all corps, but we need to reason other factors in sometimes and this is one of them. I would hate to see smoking abolished becaise then skydiving could be later, but user taxes for behavior that's about as ignoant as it could be is justified. My GF's 44 yo brother just had a stroke from smoking/drinking, he didn't miss a beat as far as smoking goes, so he apparently didn't hear the 2-minute warning. Tobacco is an addiction worse than heroin and if the dealers need to be punished by less profit, my heart goes out to them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lucky... 0 #7 November 11, 2007 QuoteQuoteAnd both houses have signaled a willingness to raise the cigarette tax if other provisions of a children's health bill can be resolved. They've gotta pay for health care somehow. What healthcare? Oohhhhhhhhh, you mean HMO's or the emergency care that hospitals must give - get em leak-free and vertical and shove em out the door - I see. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
namgrunt 0 #8 November 11, 2007 A question for all those in favor of sin taxes. What will thay pass on this tax to when folks stop smoaking??????????????? ok lets tax... less tax on anything is what needs to be done once again the rookie hits it on the head .59 YEARS,OVERWEIGHT,BALDIND,X-GRUNT LAST MIL. JUMP VIET-NAM(QUAN-TRI) www.dzmemories.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #9 November 11, 2007 Quote Onther state (I cant remember which one) turned down state funding of a Stem Cell research center. That gov said to hell with them, we will build it any way. That would be the state I reside in now. New Jersey! Imagine that. This state wanting to pass more taxes. If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #10 November 11, 2007 QuoteWhat will thay pass on this tax to when folks stop smoaking??????????????? They wont....most will smoke till their dieing day. Once the Tobacco companies get ya... statistically you are going to have a long and painful slide to the grave while your family gets to watch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #11 November 12, 2007 Quote Go after the rich corporations. [emotional] Yes! [/emotional] Wait, why?Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #12 November 12, 2007 Quote Quote Onther state (I cant remember which one) turned down state funding of a Stem Cell research center. That gov said to hell with them, we will build it any way. That would be the state I reside in now. New Jersey! Imagine that. This state wanting to pass more taxes. Quote http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/22/news/economy/full_service/index.htm At just 14 cents a gallon, New Jersey has one of the smallest state gas taxes in the country. The national average is about 21 cents, according to gaspricewatch.com. The federal gas tax is 18.4 cents per gallon. In Pennsylvania, which sits just next door to New Jersey and has several refineries of its own, the average price is $3.073 a gallon, according to the motorist organization AAA. That's about 13 cents higher than New Jersey's $2.947. The difference is clearly due to the tax. In Pennsylvania, it's 17 cents higher. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #13 November 12, 2007 QuoteNew Jersey has one of the smallest state gas taxes in the country. They also have the highest property taxes in the nation. SO whats your point?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #14 November 12, 2007 Hey, I didn't write the article. Jeez. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #15 November 12, 2007 QuoteHey, I didn't write the article. Jeez. I didnt mean to sound snippy by that I just wondered what you are trying to get at by saying the gas tax is cheap here. Gas is cheaper here compared to other states but the property tax is unreal. In the county where I live the average is $15,000 a year. I dont see how a normal middle class family can afford a home here. I sure as hell cannot afford one.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #16 November 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd both houses have signaled a willingness to raise the cigarette tax if other provisions of a children's health bill can be resolved. They've gotta pay for health care somehow. What healthcare? Oohhhhhhhhh, you mean HMO's or the emergency care that hospitals must give - get em leak-free and vertical and shove em out the door - I see. FOr some reading, read into the history of trauma centers prior to and after 1987. Find out what the equation of "insurance industry" plus "unfunded government mandate" equals. Probably half of all emergency services are uncompensated for the hospital. It USED to be that these could be absorbed by the patients who DID pay, hence the $5 aspirins. But then health insuracne grew and grew. They only pay flat fees for service and won't accept paying more than for their patients. The California Healthcare Association said that 70 acute care hospitals in California closed between 1993 and 2003. Much of this occurred following the passage of EMTALA. Guess what happens when a government tells you you gota do something and not get paid? Guess what happens when people find out that something has to be given to you whether or not you pay? Google "the Tragedy of the Commons" for a common sense explanation. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 2 #17 November 12, 2007 You're right, EMTALA is basically an un-funded mandate. Of course, if the US had universal health care paid for by taxes like every other civilized nation, it would be funded. < runs > Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #18 November 12, 2007 QuoteThey've gotta pay for health care somehow. Didn't you get the memo? apparently taxes are NOT for revenue, they are for impotent social behavior adjustments of target populations. Isn't it great our glorious gov'ment is trying to help all those smokers quit? mmm, memos ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #19 November 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteThey've gotta pay for health care somehow. Didn't you get the memo? apparently taxes are NOT for revenue, Right, we BORROW when we want money.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #20 November 12, 2007 Think this might help?http://newsmax.com/headlines/democrats_tax_increase/2007/11/11/48607.html "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,150 #21 November 12, 2007 Quote Think this might help?http://newsmax.com/headlines/democrats_tax_increase/2007/11/11/48607.html © 2007 Newsmax. All rights reserved. ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #22 November 12, 2007 Quote Quote Think this might help?http://newsmax.com/headlines/democrats_tax_increase/2007/11/11/48607.html © 2007 Newsmax. All rights reserved. Didnt even read it did ya?"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
