New Army Chopper Overheats

[warpedskydiver 0]

New Army Chopper Overheats
AP IMPACT:
By AARON C. DAVIS
Associated Press Writer

6:05 PM PST, November 9, 2007

SACRAMENTO, Calif. — The Army is spending $2.6 billion on hundreds of European-designed helicopters for homeland security and disaster relief that turn out to have a crucial flaw: They aren't safe to fly on hot days, according to an internal report obtained by The Associated Press.

While the Army scrambles to fix the problem -- adding millions to the taxpayer cost -- at least one high-ranking lawmaker is calling for the whole deal to be scrapped.

During flight tests in Southern California in mild, 80-degree weather, cockpit temperatures in the UH-72A Lakota soared above 104, the point at which the Army says the communication, navigation and flight control systems can overheat and shut down.

No cockpit equipment failed during the nearly 23 hours of testing, according to the Pentagon report, prepared in July. But the report concluded that the aircraft "is not effective for use in hot environments."

The Army told the AP that to fix the cockpit overheating problem, it will take the highly unusual step of adding air conditioners to many of the 322 helicopters ordered.

The retrofitting will cost at least $10 million and will come out of the Army's budget, according to the Army.

California Rep. Duncan Hunter, the ranking Republican on the House Armed Services Committee, told the AP that the lightweight helicopter will still have too many weaknesses.

"In my view, we would be well advised to terminate the planned buy of 322 Lakota helicopters and purchase instead additional Blackhawk helicopters," Hunter said in a letter this week to Army Secretary Pete Geren.

But Army spokesman Maj. Tom McCuin at the Pentagon said: "It's certainly a concern to people out there in the field now because it's hot in those cockpits, but it's being fixed."

The Army has received 12 of the Lakotas so far from the American Eurocopter Corp., a North American division of Germany's European Aeronautic Defence and Space Co., or EADS. Testing on the first six by an independent arm of the Pentagon revealed the problems. The rest of the choppers are scheduled for delivery to the active-duty Army and the National Guard over the next eight years.

The Lakota represents the Army's first major effort to adapt commercially available helicopters for military use. Air conditioning is standard in commercial versions of the aircraft, which have not had overheating problems. But the military usually avoids air conditioning in military aircraft to reduce weight and increase performance.

"We don't need air conditioning in the Blackhawks, so we didn't think it would be an issue" in the Lakota, McCuin said. "But when we got the helicopter into the desert, we realized it was a problem."

The Army plans to use the Lakota for such things as search-and-rescue missions in disaster areas, evacuation of injured people, reconnaissance, disaster relief and VIP tours for members of Congress and Army brass. All of its missions will be in the U.S. or other non-combat zones.

Blackhawks, Chinooks and other helicopters will still be available for more demanding duties, such as fighting wildfires or mass evacuations.

EADS spokesman Guy Hicks declined to comment directly on the criticism leveled against the aircraft. "We're proud of our partnership with the Army and the UH-72A, but we defer on anything to do with aircraft requirements and performance. It's the Army's program and they should address that," he said.

The commercial purchase was designed partly to cut costs and quickly get aircraft into the field to replace two aging Vietnam-era helicopters, the Kiowa and Huey. The Army said the Lakota will also free up more Blackhawks to send to Iraq for medical evacuation flights.

The Lakota has another problem: Testers said it fails to meet the Army's requirement that it be able to simultaneously evacuate two critically injured patients. The Lakota can hold two patients, but the cabin is too cramped for medics to actually work on more than one of them at a time, the testers said.

Also, the Lakota cannot lift a standard 2,200-pound firefighting water bucket, though it can handle a 1,400-pound one. The Army said it had no intention of using the Lakota to fight wildfires anyway. But Hunter said the military should be buying versatile aircraft useful in any domestic disaster.

The report by Charles McQueary, the Defense Department's director of operational testing, said that overall, the Lakota performs better than the Kiowa or Huey and pilots found it easy to fly.

But the report said inadequate ventilation, heat emitted by aircraft electronics and sunlight streaming through the large windows caused cockpit temperatures to reach 104.9 degrees during a simulated mission in California.

The report did not say how long the helicopter was in the air before it reached that temperature. The Lakota is supposed to be able to fly for 2.8 hours.

The aircraft's safe operating limit is 104 degrees, according to the Army. Beyond that, alarms may sound, signaling the pilot has 30 minutes before possible system shutdown, the report said. It said pilots should land as soon as possible or take other action to cool the cockpit.

Kim Henry, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Army Aviation & Missile Command at the Redstone Arsenal in Alabama, said that the Army began outfitting the helicopters with vents after the report was issued and that they have been effective at lowering temperatures.

However, the Army decided it still needs to put air conditioning on about a third of the choppers, including those bound for hot climates like the Southwest, and all of those configured for medical evacuations, McCuin said.

"The Minnesota Air National Guard probably doesn't need air conditioners," he said. The cost of an air conditioning unit per aircraft is about $98,000, McCuin said. Redesigns to add vents, scoops and other devices to increase cockpit ventilation for the rest of the fleet could add millions more.

Despite the needed fixes, McCuin and other officers familiar with the Lakota lauded the aircraft, pointing to parts of McQueary's report that found the aircraft does meet hovering, range, endurance and speed requirements.

The Army officials also stressed that the problems are being discovered and dealt with now, when just a few of the helicopters have arrived.

Loren Thompson, a military analyst with the Lexington Institute, a defense think tank in Virginia, said the Army is facing a new kind of criticism over the Lakota. Whereas the Army has been ridiculed for decades for overspending on aircraft, it now faces questions of whether it was too cost-conscious.

"The Army may be learning that its performance requirements are so demanding that adapting commercial helicopters is almost as hard as starting from scratch on a new military design," Thompson said.

Copyright 2007 Los Angeles Times

partners: KTLA Hoy

[leewilcox 0]

Wonder how much turd polish they will use on this one.
Imagine being rescued on a hot day by one of this beauties and they have an A/C failure followed by some compound system failures and abort the rescue as you wave bye bye.
Probably not realistic that the Army would reevaluate the whole program. Too much high brass would lose face.

"Nothing exists except atoms and empty space; everything else is opinion" - Democritus

[Gawain 0]

For $2.6B, I would've just invested in more UH-60 platforms. Maybe you don't get as many units out of the deal, but it's proven over and over...

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[warpedskydiver 0]

I would have purchased more MH-53 and MH-53 Pavelows.

UH-60 has a few things about it that would make it less desireable than the MH-53

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

I would have purchased more MH-53 and MH-53 Pavelows.

UH-60 has a few things about it that would make it less desireable than the MH-53

I'd have to disagree. I've seen the Pavelows down for mechanical issues far more than the UH-60s. What the force is using and relying on heavily these days is the old work horse Chinook. IMHO, they should look at a way to continue making new ones and improving on that airframe as it can and has served ALL the roles mentioned in the article. It really takes a lot of abuse and it can do anything from milk runs, resupply ,sling loads to inserting troops on the objective or as a jump platform.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[warpedskydiver 0]

I have no disagreement on the shithook, they always got me to where I was going, plus they were nice and warm for a minute before they left.

I just wished they would keep them from leaking, that can be a bit unnerving.

I had no idea that the MH-53 was so bad in staying mission ready.

There should have been something done about that, it is a fine bird.

[LouDiamond 1]

Quote

I had no idea that the Mh-53 was so bad in staying mission ready

I cannot say that ALL of them have issues but I can say that my experience with them has been less than favorable due to one thing or another and the Blackhawks or Chinooks always picked up the slack.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[warpedskydiver 0]

Thanks Scott, I know I can always count on your honesty.

Take care brother.

Try and have fun when you can.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I never got to ride the blackhawk, that was after my time.

[kschilk 0]

Quote

Quote

I would have purchased more MH-53 and MH-53 Pavelows.

UH-60 has a few things about it that would make it less desireable than the MH-53

I'd have to disagree. I've seen the Pavelows down for mechanical issues far more than the UH-60s. What the force is using and relying on heavily these days is the old work horse Chinook. IMHO, they should look at a way to continue making new ones and improving on that airframe as it can and has served ALL the roles mentioned in the article. It really takes a lot of abuse and it can do anything from milk runs, resupply ,sling loads to inserting troops on the objective or as a jump platform.

When I was in, the 53 Mike was the real workhorse and the 60s were just coming in. There were a ton of problems with the early HH-60s, as with any new bird. Considering its variety of missions, the 53 was very reliable and really, the only one that could pull the mine sleds. As much as I hated to work on 'em, I had great respect for the Jolly Greens (or grey).

"T'was ever thus."

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

I just wished they would keep them from leaking, that can be a bit unnerving.

Leaking is good. When it stops leaking is when I would worry. That means it is out of fluid. Some things leak just by design. Nothing to worry about. Now if you see a steady stream then you have problem.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[warpedskydiver 0]

We used to load up so heavy I swear the Crew Chiefs looked worried, but they never said a thing.

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

We used to load up so heavy I swear the Crew Chiefs looked worried, but they never said a thing.

For how much we used to stuff in a Chinook the crew didnt even blink an eye. I dont think you could load enough troops and gear inside and overload the thing. It was an amazing bird.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[LuvToFly 0]

The tremendous success of the U.S. operated Eurcopter models greatly influenced this ill-fated purchase.

There was a point where the Bell or Sikorsky line was king of the hill; but just about every commecial operation is running ASS35X, or AS36X's, in addition to the EC135-145 line in medivac and sight-seeing. And the reliability has been quite good -

There was however serious complaints in the pilot community when the US awarded this contract. It would seem that buy American might have been a very good idea -

However, I am left with the sense that some intermediary made a huge bunch of cash on this deal - and that's what it's all about. Whomever brokered this deal made an incredible fortune - because it is well known that European markets will actually lose money to take that kind of business away - with many of them being "state sponsored" operations in their home country as well.

After all, not knowing that it gets too hot is too unbelievable to believe. You would have know an aircraft gets too hot very early on in your inspection testing for proposal. Unless the units supplied were specially altered - in which case Eurocopter should be on the hook.

If I were a conspiracy theorist, I would even believe that the defect was known at deal-time, with the understanding that there would just be another dip into the well for repair money.

Regardless, I don't know a single helicopter pilot that would not know with certainty that an aircraft is running too hot. It must have been reported very early on by the pilots, but ignored by the brass.

Having said that, not blaming the Europeans. Eurocopter has turned about many inventive designs over the past few decades.

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[warpedskydiver 0]

Even the MiL designs would have been preferable to such crap.

[shropshire 0]

That fan thingy on the top must not be workin'

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[warpedskydiver 0]

I keep telling Vortexring to keep the spinning bits upright!




Otherwise it will simply pull the heat from the crash site upwards!

[skycop 0]

The UH-60 is too much for alot of missions, but not enough for others. Buying off-the-shelf equipment for demanding military missions is always risky. The two most recent examples are both American and Euro. The Bell ARH (407) has had problems, now the Eurocopter is the same.
Eurocopter makes excellent helicopters, take my word for it, riding in an air conditioned AS350 is much more comfortable than thumping along in an OH-58 in the heat of August
The military procurement process as cumbersome as it may be. (normally) produces results, albeit expensive ones.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[LuvToFly 0]

Quote

take my word for it, riding in an air conditioned AS350 is much more comfortable that thumping along in an OH-58 in the heat of August

Oh, I'm with you there. The Euro's are one sweet ride, even the smaller ones in the EC line. They seemed to be focused on comfort as a design objective - particularly when compared to the OH-58/B206's.

It just strikes me as a bit weird that someone would not have noticed such a gross overheating problem from the get-go. It's not like discovering a coning hinge or swashplate problem 800 hours in. Seems to be something that someone would have noticed during environmentals - right away.

My take is, someone new, either on the manufacturing side - or in the procurement office - but certainly, the pilots doing the run-throughs knew. But like any "corporation" doing business, the folks actually doing the work (i.e. pilots) are not always listened to by "management" because reputations hang on the line to make good on the purchase -

"The helicopter approaches closer than any other to fulfillment
of mankind's ancient dreams of a magic carpet" - Igor Sikorsky

[akarunway 1]

I kinda like these guys myself. And it keeps the money in the U.S. For the most part. The Lakota was some congressmans/buddys pet project IMO. Next trip for lunch to Catalina Island I'm gonna check em out. Expensive lunch for sure.>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOTAR Anybody have any experience w/ them? I saw a show on them and was very impressed.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.