NCclimber 0 #76 November 7, 2007 QuoteI care that he thinks that a healthy society needs to be predicated upon a belief in God. Why? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #77 November 7, 2007 Quote It's all about who has the most money. Be careful about voicing any objections about the amount of money being given to candidates. Some around here might accuse you of pissing all over the First Amendment. Yep. Consult the 1976 Buckley v Valeo decision. Money is speech. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #78 November 7, 2007 Quote Quote Now you're resorting to cheap word games. how nice. Last time I checked, you were the one saying he doesn't actually think that one of his "core beliefs" was true. Such dishonesty. tsk tsk Quote It would also be neat if you could point out the hostility anywhere in my reply. Cheers! It oozes from most of your posts in this thread. Now, how about addressing my main point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #79 November 7, 2007 QuoteNow, how about addressing my main point. I have absolutely no idea what it is.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #80 November 7, 2007 QuoteWhy do you even care? Seriously, you seem to consistently get hostile whenever the subject of faith comes up. Why do you care if Fred Thompson believes "a stable society does not need to be predicated on a belief in God"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #81 November 7, 2007 Quote Listen up cowgirl! If you consider doing what it takes to glean information from an enemy a human rights violation then that is just sad. The ends justify the means. That's what they say in Beijing too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #82 November 7, 2007 Why do you post on a skydiving website? Now do you have a point that is to do with the topic, because I have absolutely zero interest in justifying myself to you.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #83 November 7, 2007 Quote Why do you post on a skydiving website? Now do you have a point that is to do with the topic, because I have absolutely zero interest in justifying myself to you. Nice dodge. Too funny! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #84 November 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteBecause a stable society does not need to be predicated on a belief in god. Actually it does. But you are welcome to your opinion, wrong as it may be. India is not predicated on a belief in God, neither is China, nor France. China is a communist state. I've not read India's constitution, but 80% are Hindu, 15% Muslim, misc for the rest. India has a very religious culture (1.1 B people to boot). France is 90% Catholic and while their constitution does not appear to be a derivation of "God" being a creator, to say that religion does not contribute to their stability is short sighted. In fact, the contradicting religions from Islamic immigrants have contributed to a lot of instability.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #85 November 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuotehttp://www.fred08.com/ He lost my vote when he mentioned God. Church and State are supposed to be separate. You must hate it when Congress convenes then, each session begins with a prayer. I did not know that, but now that I do I dont like it. George Bush: 'God told me to end the tyranny in Iraq'. The results arent impressive. I hope Fred isnt listening to the same God. 90+% of the people in the world believe in a "God" of one degree or another. If someone bows their head in prayer, that does not mean you need to. "God" does not equal "religion" in the strictest sense. Belief in higher power makes religion. God tends to be that higher power. I believe in God, but God doesnt tell me to invade countries. If he did that's a problem. Mahmoudanjajad also believes God tells him what to do. Mahmoudanjidad also believes there is no gay in Iran and Israel should cease to exist. I am curious to see what God tells Fred to do. There shuold be no God in political decision making. God does not equal religion. Religion is a doctrine which defines "God".So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #86 November 7, 2007 Quote Quote Why do you post on a skydiving website? Now do you have a point that is to do with the topic, because I have absolutely zero interest in justifying myself to you. Nice dodge. Too funny! So you don't have any interest in pursuing the topic itself then? The only questions you have are about me personally? Good to knowDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #87 November 7, 2007 Quote Like I said, become an american citizen, or just STFU. The choice is yours. Now go lecture the French or something equally productive. Well that the French are now sucking up to the USA .....!I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #88 November 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteHate to break it to you cowboy but the US doesn't have a great reputation on human rights lately. Your right! We should look at China, Pakistan, Palestine or Iran to see how they do it.What think ye about this?> The United States has the highest prison population rate in the world, some 714 per 100,000 of the national population, followed by Belarus, Bermuda and Russia (all 532), Palau (523), U.S. Virgin Islands (490), Turkmenistan (489), Cuba (487), Suriname (437), Cayman Islands (429), Belize (420), Ukraine (417), Maldive Islands (416), St Kitts and Nevis (415), South Africa (413) and Bahamas (410).I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #89 November 7, 2007 Quote China is a communist state. I've not read India's constitution, but 80% are Hindu, 15% Muslim, misc for the rest. India has a very religious culture (1.1 B people to boot). France is 90% Catholic and while their constitution does not appear to be a derivation of "God" being a creator, to say that religion does not contribute to their stability is short sighted. In fact, the contradicting religions from Islamic immigrants have contributed to a lot of instability. Yes China is a communist state. That is not inconsistant with being a stable society. I disagree with the political philosophy of their current administration, but it is a stable society none the less. India is majority Hindu. Hindus do not believe in God; they believe in a pantheon of gods not unlike the practitioners of witchcraft who occupied northern Europe prior to the coming of Christianity. While France was a Catholic Monarchy in the past, as a society they have removed religion from official life and are doing fine. If you insist that France's past is still dominant I will grant you your point. However you must also grant that China's past is of course Buddhist. Buddhists do not believe in a creator. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #90 November 7, 2007 Quote If you have to ask you would not understand the answer. . Have you been taking lessons from my ex-wife?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #91 November 7, 2007 Quote What think ye about this? Death penalty in full effect?If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pop 0 #92 November 7, 2007 QuoteQuoteBut what I do not want to hear is that political decisions are being made based on what God tells the political candidates to do. Okay. I do understand that. What would be your thoughts on a candidate who says that his decisions are made based upon his religious principles? Good question. Most religions generally teach good principles: don’t kill, steal, cheat, do good to others, love your neighbor, etc. If the candidate falls within the religions that tend to promote good principles, then I think it’s completely fine to use religious principles as a guide to decision making. However, there is a fine line there, and when crossed it can be extremely dangerous. God’s principals could help guide the politician in making the right decision both for the good of the people, and in accordance with his principals. God shouldn’t tell a politician what decision to make.7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #93 November 7, 2007 QuoteChina is a communist state. I've not read India's constitution, but 80% are Hindu, 15% Muslim, misc for the rest. India has a very religious culture (1.1 B people to boot). France is 90% Catholic and while their constitution does not appear to be a derivation of "God" being a creator, to say that religion does not contribute to their stability is short sighted. In fact, the contradicting religions from Islamic immigrants have contributed to a lot of instability. If you use the factor of "X% population believe in Y deity" then you could make the argument that any modern society apart from the communist ones are built on a belief in some kind of god (I think that's a fallacious argument but that's not important right now). However that doesn't show that any healthy society needs to be predicated on religion, it's just a reflection of the fact that the majority of people in the world still believe in some kind of deity (and how is the world as a whole doing right now). Now your last sentance in the quoted segment is one of the major reasons why I don't like Thompson's statement. You said "In fact, the contradicting religions from Islamic immigrants have contributed to a lot of instability." You are equating belief in god to be belief in your god, or at least just the one god. On the one hand you are trying to say that belief in god is a strengthening factor in France, on the other hand a weakening factor, because (I can only assume) it is the wrong god. So do you think Thompson meant the same as you, that belief in only the one god is what a healthy society should be predicated on? A guy trying to use the White House to push through those kind of values could run foul of the constitution if he's not careful.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #94 November 8, 2007 Quote He states in his core principles that society needs to be predicated on a belief in God I believe that was pretty much the belief of the Founding Fathers. The degradation of today's society tells me that we've risen so far above the beliefs of those old farts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #95 November 8, 2007 Because a stable society does not need to be predicated on a belief in god. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually it does. But you are welcome to your opinion, wrong as it may be. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteIndia is not predicated on a belief in God, neither is China, nor France. And Americans are flocking there by the thousands because life is so much better, there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #96 November 8, 2007 QuoteBecause a stable society does not need to be predicated on a belief in god. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Actually it does. But you are welcome to your opinion, wrong as it may be. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteIndia is not predicated on a belief in God, neither is China, nor France. And Americans are flocking there by the thousands because life is so much better, there. How is that relevant to the point about being a stable society?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #97 November 8, 2007 Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- India is not predicated on a belief in God, neither is China, nor France. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And Americans are flocking there by the thousands because life is so much better, there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteHow is that relevant to the point about being a stable society? `Well, the reverse is true. They sure aren't coming here for the religious persecution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #98 November 8, 2007 QuoteReply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- India is not predicated on a belief in God, neither is China, nor France. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And Americans are flocking there by the thousands because life is so much better, there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteHow is that relevant to the point about being a stable society? `Well, the reverse is true. They sure aren't coming here for the religious persecution. That is totally irrelevant too.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #99 November 8, 2007 Quote Quote What think ye about this? Death penalty in full effect? Yeah. Let's kill all those drug offenders.> "Population statistics [[1]]In recent decades the U.S. has experienced a surge in its prison population, quadrupling since 1980, partially as a result of mandated sentences that came about during the "war on drugs" and despite the decline in violent crime and property crime since the early 1990s[2]. As of 2004, the three states with the lowest ratio of imprisoned to civilian population are Maine (148 per 100,000), Minnesota (171 per 100,000), and Rhode Island (175 per 100,000). The three states with the highest ratio are Louisiana (816 per 100,000), Texas (694 per 100,000), and Mississippi (669 per 100,000). [3] In terms of federal prison, 57% of those incarcerated were sentenced for drug offenses. Currently, considering local jails as well, almost one million of those incarcerated are in prison for non-violent crime. [4] In 2002, 93.2% of prisoners were male. About 10.4% of all black males in the United States between the ages of 25 and 29 were sentenced and in prison, compared to 2.4% of Hispanic males and 1.2% of white males. [5] In 2005, about 1 out of every 136 U.S. residents was incarcerated either in prison or jail.[6] The total amount being 2,320,359, with 1,446,269 in state and federal prisons and 747,529 in local jails.[7] [edit] Comparison with other countries Compared with other countries, the United States has among the highest incarceration rates in the world. More people are behind bars in the United States than any other country, according to available official figures. As of 2006, a record 7 million people were behind bars, on probation or on parole. Of the total, 2.2 million were incarcerated. China with 20% of the world's population ranks second with a reported 1.5 million followed by Russia with 870,000. However, China's true prison population has been speculated to be considerably higher by activists such as Harry Wu. The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.[2] In 2006 the incarceration rate in England and Wales is 139 persons imprisoned per 100,000 residents while in Norway it is 59 per 100,000 and in Australia and France it is around 100 inmates per 100,000. In many countries, it is common for prisoners to be paroled after serving as little as one third of their sentences. In the U.S., most states strictly limit parole, requiring that at least half of a sentence be served. For certain heinous crimes, there is no parole and the full sentence must be served. The prison population in China was 111 per 100,000 in 2001 (sentenced prisoners only), although this figure is highly disputed. Chinese human rights activist Harry Wu, who spent 19 years in forced-labor camps for criticizing the government, estimates that 16 to 20 million of his countrymen are incarcerated, including common criminals, political prisoners, and people in involuntary job placements. Even ten million prisoners would mean a rate of 793 per 100,000.[8]I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #100 November 8, 2007 So,.. What does Fred Thompson think about America's incarceration rate? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
