mnealtx 0 #76 November 10, 2007 Quote Quote I knew of at least 3 from personal experience, and they said that most of their friends were the same, for what that's worth. I've proven that it *is* happening and it's already been stipulated that it's impossible to guess the scope of the problem. Rebuttal? Or are you going to laugh that off, too?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #77 November 10, 2007 Quote Quote Quote I knew of at least 3 from personal experience, and they said that most of their friends were the same, for what that's worth. I've proven that it *is* happening and it's already been stipulated that it's impossible to guess the scope of the problem. Rebuttal? Or are you going to laugh that off, too? Since it is a FELONY, why don't you report these acquaintances of yours. Surely you are a law abiding citizen... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #78 November 10, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote I knew of at least 3 from personal experience, and they said that most of their friends were the same, for what that's worth. I've proven that it *is* happening and it's already been stipulated that it's impossible to guess the scope of the problem. Rebuttal? Or are you going to laugh that off, too? Since it is a FELONY, why don't you report these acquaintances of yours. Surely you are a law abiding citizen You're avoiding the question - how do you propose to solve the problem you essentially said was non-existent?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #79 November 10, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I knew of at least 3 from personal experience, and they said that most of their friends were the same, for what that's worth. I've proven that it *is* happening and it's already been stipulated that it's impossible to guess the scope of the problem. Rebuttal? Or are you going to laugh that off, too? Since it is a FELONY, why don't you report these acquaintances of yours. Surely you are a law abiding citizen You're avoiding the question - how do you propose to solve the problem you essentially said was non-existent? I haven't claimed that at all. What I wrote was: "A lot of whining and hypothesizing, but no-one has produce a shred of ACTUAL DATA to show that this is a real problem." Show that there's a REAL problem (that is, election outcomes being changed). You haven't produced any data to show that has happened. Just because you once spoke to 3 friends who said their friends voted illegally is not proof that there is a problem with election outcomes being corrupted.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #80 November 10, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I knew of at least 3 from personal experience, and they said that most of their friends were the same, for what that's worth. I've proven that it *is* happening and it's already been stipulated that it's impossible to guess the scope of the problem. Rebuttal? Or are you going to laugh that off, too? Since it is a FELONY, why don't you report these acquaintances of yours. Surely you are a law abiding citizen You're avoiding the question - how do you propose to solve the problem you essentially said was non-existent? I haven't claimed that at all. What I wrote was: "A lot of whining and hypothesizing, but no-one has produce a shred of ACTUAL DATA to show that this is a real problem." Show that there's a REAL problem (that is, election outcomes being changed). You haven't produced any data to show that has happened. Just because you once spoke to 3 friends who said their friends voted illegally is not proof that there is a problem with election outcomes being corrupted. Let me ask this... Has anyone or any group investigated the situation to see whether or not, illegals really do vote and if so, who they vote for? If, they are in fact voting, 10 to 1, they are voting only for hispanics or hispanic sympathisers. You might want to watch the presidential election. There's one candidate who is half hispanic. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #81 November 10, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I knew of at least 3 from personal experience, and they said that most of their friends were the same, for what that's worth. I've proven that it *is* happening and it's already been stipulated that it's impossible to guess the scope of the problem. Rebuttal? Or are you going to laugh that off, too? Since it is a FELONY, why don't you report these acquaintances of yours. Surely you are a law abiding citizen You're avoiding the question - how do you propose to solve the problem you essentially said was non-existent? I haven't claimed that at all. What I wrote was: "A lot of whining and hypothesizing, but no-one has produce a shred of ACTUAL DATA to show that this is a real problem." Show that there's a REAL problem (that is, election outcomes being changed). You haven't produced any data to show that has happened. Just because you once spoke to 3 friends who said their friends voted illegally is not proof that there is a problem with election outcomes being corrupted. Let me ask this... Has anyone or any group investigated the situation to see whether or not, illegals really do vote and if so, who they vote for? The onus is on the people who think there's a problem to prove it before raising a stink about it. We have plenty of real problems in the USA (debt, trade balance, Iraq, crime, healthcare, debt, competitiveness, the sub-prime mortgage fiasco, debt...) and precious little political talent or will to solve them. Adding a perceived but unproven problem to the mix is not going to help solve anything.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #82 November 10, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote I knew of at least 3 from personal experience, and they said that most of their friends were the same, for what that's worth. I've proven that it *is* happening and it's already been stipulated that it's impossible to guess the scope of the problem. Rebuttal? Or are you going to laugh that off, too? Since it is a FELONY, why don't you report these acquaintances of yours. Surely you are a law abiding citizen You're avoiding the question - how do you propose to solve the problem you essentially said was non-existent? I haven't claimed that at all. What I wrote was: "A lot of whining and hypothesizing, but no-one has produce a shred of ACTUAL DATA to show that this is a real problem." Show that there's a REAL problem (that is, election outcomes being changed). You haven't produced any data to show that has happened. Just because you once spoke to 3 friends who said their friends voted illegally is not proof that there is a problem with election outcomes being corrupted. Let me ask this... Has anyone or any group investigated the situation to see whether or not, illegals really do vote and if so, who they vote for? The onus is on the people who think there's a problem to prove it before raising a stink about it. We have plenty of real problems in the USA (debt, trade balance, Iraq, crime, healthcare, debt, competitiveness, the sub-prime mortgage fiasco, debt...) and precious little political talent or will to solve them. Adding a perceived but unproven problem to the mix is not going to help solve anything. I appreciate your in-put. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #83 November 12, 2007 QuoteThe onus is on the people who think there's a problem to prove it before raising a stink about it. Ok, so you've been shown it's happening, but it's not a BIG enough problem for you to care about - gotcha. I'll refer you back to these numbers from a prior post. QuoteHow many ineligible voters actually took advantage of the Motor Voter law by registering to vote? In Florida, according to the Florida Secretary of State's numbers, between 1994 and 1998 (the most recent data available), the number of registered Hispanic voters skyrocketed by an astonishing 557%, from 99,000 to 655,000 while the number of White and Black registered voters increased by a reasonable 15 %. The number of registered Hispanic voters has grown even more dramatically in south Florida. For example, in Dade County, from 1994 to 1998 the number of Hispanic voters grew by 1996%, a nearly 20-fold increase! And in now-famous Palm Beach County, the four year increase was completely off the charts, a 7,220% jump! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #84 November 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe onus is on the people who think there's a problem to prove it before raising a stink about it. Ok, so you've been shown it's happening, but it's not a BIG enough problem for you to care about - gotcha. I'll refer you back to these numbers from a prior post. QuoteHow many ineligible voters actually took advantage of the Motor Voter law by registering to vote? In Florida, according to the Florida Secretary of State's numbers, between 1994 and 1998 (the most recent data available), the number of registered Hispanic voters skyrocketed by an astonishing 557%, from 99,000 to 655,000 while the number of White and Black registered voters increased by a reasonable 15 %. The number of registered Hispanic voters has grown even more dramatically in south Florida. For example, in Dade County, from 1994 to 1998 the number of Hispanic voters grew by 1996%, a nearly 20-fold increase! And in now-famous Palm Beach County, the four year increase was completely off the charts, a 7,220% jump! How do you know they were illegal? Just because they are Hispanic?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #85 November 12, 2007 QuoteHow do you know they were illegal? Just because they are Hispanic? I don't recall making that inference - merely supplying numbers. I *do* find the large disparity (some 37x) of increase between Hispanic registrations and White/Black registrations *combined* telling, however - especially if even a fraction of them are skirting the law as described.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #86 November 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteHow do you know they were illegal? Just because they are Hispanic? I don't recall making that inference - merely supplying numbers. I *do* find the large disparity (some 37x) of increase between Hispanic registrations and White/Black registrations *combined* telling, however - especially if even a fraction of them are skirting the law as described. So you ARE equating Hispanic with illegal.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #87 November 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteHow do you know they were illegal? Just because they are Hispanic? I don't recall making that inference - merely supplying numbers. I *do* find the large disparity (some 37x) of increase between Hispanic registrations and White/Black registrations *combined* telling, however - especially if even a fraction of them are skirting the law as described. So you ARE equating Hispanic with illegal. Supposition on YOUR part, sorry.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #88 November 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow do you know they were illegal? Just because they are Hispanic? I don't recall making that inference - merely supplying numbers. I *do* find the large disparity (some 37x) of increase between Hispanic registrations and White/Black registrations *combined* telling, however - especially if even a fraction of them are skirting the law as described. So you ARE equating Hispanic with illegal. Supposition on YOUR part, sorry. The thread is about illegals, and you quote data on Hispanics. Either you are off on an irrelevant tangent, or you consider them the same thing. Sorry.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #89 November 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow do you know they were illegal? Just because they are Hispanic? I don't recall making that inference - merely supplying numbers. I *do* find the large disparity (some 37x) of increase between Hispanic registrations and White/Black registrations *combined* telling, however - especially if even a fraction of them are skirting the law as described. So you ARE equating Hispanic with illegal. Supposition on YOUR part, sorry. The thread is about illegals, and you quote data on Hispanics. Either you are off on an irrelevant tangent, or you consider them the same thing. Sorry. Again, incorrect - neither the information that I posted or the website that it came from state that the persons mentioned are legal OR illegal. Any supposition on that point is in your own mind, not by any statement I've made. By that logic, your agreement with Brady laws show that you do NOT support the ownership of guns, regardless of your stated views.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #90 November 12, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteHow do you know they were illegal? Just because they are Hispanic? I don't recall making that inference - merely supplying numbers. I *do* find the large disparity (some 37x) of increase between Hispanic registrations and White/Black registrations *combined* telling, however - especially if even a fraction of them are skirting the law as described. So you ARE equating Hispanic with illegal. Supposition on YOUR part, sorry. The thread is about illegals, and you quote data on Hispanics. Either you are off on an irrelevant tangent, or you consider them the same thing. Sorry. Again, incorrect - neither the information that I posted or the website that it came from state that the persons mentioned are legal OR illegal. Any supposition on that point is in your own mind, not by any statement I've made. . So you WERE going off on an irrelevant tangent, then. OK.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #91 November 12, 2007 Quote I'm assuming, the son was born here. That, makes him a U.S. cotizen. Don't count... he's not illegal. Dangerous policy to allow that. We have the same policy up here in Canada. It is the ultimate back door entrance to citizenship. Come illegally, stay undercover long enough to drop a rugrat and you are now free to stay. My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #92 November 12, 2007 QuoteQuote I'm assuming, the son was born here. That, makes him a U.S. cotizen. Don't count... he's not illegal. Dangerous policy to allow that. We have the same policy up here in Canada. It is the ultimate back door entrance to citizenship. Come illegally, stay undercover long enough to drop a rugrat and you are now free to stay. I whole-heartedly agree with you! Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #93 November 13, 2007 my thought is that you fingerprint the rugrat send them all back and let the rugrat back in when it is 18 and can speak english Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
masterrig 1 #94 November 13, 2007 Quote my thought is that you fingerprint the rugrat send them all back and let the rugrat back in when it is 18 and can speak english That is basically, an I&NS law on the books... it just hasn't been enforced very much. I'm with you! I think it's one of the greatest ideas since sliced bread. Chuck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marks2065 0 #95 November 13, 2007 i have talked to imagration police and they have their hands tied. very few of the illegals get deported because of red tape like this. we need to put in place and inforce a law that deports first not litigate first and if their is a problem they can work it out on the other side then be let back in if ok Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #96 November 13, 2007 I'm not a fan of the citizenship if you're born here thing either. The potential for abuse is too high. I'd much prefer a policy of "one parent is a citizen, therefore you are a citizen". I'd expand the policy to include "if your parent becomes a citizen before your 18th birthday, you are also a citizen". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #97 November 13, 2007 QuoteI'm not a fan of the citizenship if you're born here thing either. The potential for abuse is too high. I'd much prefer a policy of "one parent is a citizen, therefore you are a citizen". I'd expand the policy to include "if your parent becomes a citizen before your 18th birthday, you are also a citizen". i would argue for "if your mother is legally here at the time of birth" to be added to that list. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #98 November 13, 2007 No... I wouldn't allow "if your mother was legally here." There's been a surge in pregnant women coming here for vacation (perfectly legal) just to have a baby and get that kid US citizenship, usually because people with dual citizenship are exempt from mandatory military service. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Richards 0 #99 November 13, 2007 I agree entirely with your first suggestion but with respect to the "parent becomes a citizen before your 18th birthday" shouldn't it be part of a sponsorship program (new immigrant sponsors immediate family). Otherwise I can see other potential abuses (although much smaller than the ones that can exist under the current policy) My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #100 November 13, 2007 I just think putting a 5 year old, who's going to grow up here, through citizenship classes would be pretty silly, and so would making the kid wait until they're 18 to be a citizen, especially if the parent needs to travel with their child. If the parent jumps through hoops to get citizenship, that should extend to their biological or legally adopted children under age 18. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
