Addressing the right to carry a firearm

[vortexring 0]

It's came to my notice that this popular subject of debate is becoming rather heated. As usual.

As usual the debate smoulders, sometimes blazes away, and doesn't quite achieve anything. Now, I don't expect any debate to achieve much here, although certain elements can be educational, so there lies some sort of achievement.

Whilst all the debates go back and forth, and completely miss the real issue, isn't it time the real issue is therefore addressed? The problem isn't people having the right to carry firearms, or the opposite. The real problem is American culture and social issues. Now, being British it could be easy for me to not really care either way. But a lot of what happens Stateside tends to rub off in other places too...

Why then do most other Western citizens believe there is no need to carry firearms day to day?

Despite rising levels of armed crime, why still, do these people feel it's unnecessary to be armed?

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[warpedskydiver 0]

You win another years supply of cold pork pies!!!

[Esquilax 0]

Vortex's Avatar??

Ostriches and rheas are the only birds that urinate and defecate separately. They read Parachutist while doing #2.

[vortexring 0]

I'm being serious!

Now fuck off!

Besides, WTF is wrong with my picture? Can't you take your falsers out and tuck your nose into your chin!? Freak.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[kelpdiver 2]

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Why then do most other Western citizens believe there is no need to carry firearms day to day?

Despite rising levels of armed crime, why still, do these people feel it's unnecessary to be armed?

who knows? Most of them were obeying kings and queens into the 20th Century. They may have existed as nations (with fuzzy borders changing with each war) much longer, but their lives as countries by the people for the people are much younger.

[lawrocket 3]

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Why then do most other Western citizens believe there is no need to carry firearms day to day?

Because most other western citizens believe the government will take care of them.

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Despite rising levels of armed crime, why still, do these people feel it's unnecessary to be armed?

Because they believe it's government's job to take care of them.


I am on the other side - I expect to take care of myself and expect that the government will be unable to do so.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Dammit, you almost made me blow peach iced tea through my nose, stop it ya wanker!!!

[billvon 3,132]

>Because most other western citizens believe the government will take care of them.

Or because they feel they do not need to carry a gun to take care of themselves.

Do you carry epinepherine? If not, why not? Is it because you believe the government will take care of you if you experience severe anaphylaxis? Or do you feel that you do not need to carry epinepherine to adequately take care of yourself?

[vortexring 0]

In a nutshell, you're very much mistaken. European people expecting their respective governments to look after them are very few and far between. Without a doubt.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[warpedskydiver 0]

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What is your address again?

[vortexring 0]

You utter wanker.

'for it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "chuck 'im out, the brute!" But it's "saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot.'

[warpedskydiver 0]

Your colon will move to the Seychelles, ...without you.

[Andy9o8 3]

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In a nutshell, you're very much mistaken. European people expecting their respective governments to look after them are very few and far between. Without a doubt.

Really? I hereby deprive you of your national health coverage.
Pay the receptionist on your way out, please.

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Despite rising levels of armed crime, why still, do these people feel it's unnecessary to be armed?

Because they've been conditioned to accept their fate as victims and/or don't think that the risk of being a victim is high enough to justify the trouble of carrying a gun.

I don't think the risk of fire is enough to carry an extinguisher, but do believe the chances of an accident justify wearing a helmet on two-wheeled transportation and leathers when on a motorcycle.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Despite rising levels of armed crime, why still, do these people feel it's unnecessary to be armed?

Because they've been conditioned to accept their fate as victims and/or don't think that the risk of being a victim is high enough to justify the trouble of carrying a gun.

Put more neutrally - people know the prices of the current situation. You can only make guesses at the prices if you reverse the situation (give guns to citizens, or take them away), and there isn't sufficient information to have a more exact answer.

I think in most game scenarios with insufficient information, people default to no action.

[D22369 0]

I expect to take care of myself and expect that the government will be unable to do so.
***


AMEN !


911 - government sponsored dial a prayer


Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[NelKel 0]

Because they believe it's government's job to take care of them. <<<

Being from Louisiana, I can speak first hand about the US government response to Katrina. There are still thousands of people displaced and living in campers. There are also thousands waiting for government assistance, Insurance companies assistance.The latter has nothing to do with guns.

I wasn't in the Superdome with the rest of the 30 thousand New Orleaners, the ones who were raped, robbed and basically scared shitless. I live in a somewhat rural area. If need be I could have ridden horse back out of my area. There were several hundred refugees living in the basketball gym in our city park, and quite frankly they scared me. Dreadlocked, saggy pants, inner city type individuals from the biggest corrupt city in the nation. (Huey P. Long).

For once I was glad to have something to protect my wife and children, yes a gun. We live less than 1/2 mile from the park. Ofcourse they (refugees) didn't have transportation so they were on foot walking to the convenience store. They were Lourting and drinking booze outside the parking lot. My daughter ( who had never seen that type in out subdivision before) asked me what if they come to our home to steal or hurt us? My response was I would shoot them!

The local National Guard was deployed to Iraq. And the little police force we have were busy handling up on food and water rationing, along with looting and traffic. We were lucky we had speratic electricity, I watched the aftermath from my couch, less that 100 miles from New Orleans.

Sometimes I wonder what would have happened if the storm would have hit 100 miles to the west (MY area). What if we were refugees transported and living in the superdome, would it have taken 3 million in repairs to the infastructure after we left?. Would I have even left my home? If I would have had to leave what would I have taken with me?

I learned one thing,from all of it, We (gun owners) mostly live lives that are free from threatening circumstances, we try to avoid situations that would cause us to use deadly force. However you can never tell what trouble may come your way! Be it theft, rape, or just the need for water, My alarm system on my home would have done no good for a break in the middle of the night. All the armed forces and helicopters were a hundred miles away.

When you need a gun it too late if you don't already have one!

[1969912 0]

Crap! I want to go shoot something. I had a pretty good reply to vortexring all done and I accidentally reloaded the page and it vaporized. It migth be in the disc cache.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[lawrocket 3]

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Or because they feel they do not need to carry a gun to take care of themselves.

True. There is a large portion of those, bill. But events of the last couple of months have me, for the first time, looking toward buying a personal firearm.

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Do you carry epinepherine? If not, why not?

I do. I saw my sister suffer from the shock, so I have an epi-pen in my car that I got from a doctor. Actually, I should check to see if it is expired.

I didn't used to until I was made aware of risks that I couldn't handle. Sure, odds are I'll never need it. I haven't used it in the last two years. But it sure is nice to have it around. It doesn't mean I'll be eating a poison ivy salad, though.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[nigel99 647]

Until very recently I did not understand that in the US the right bear arms is so closely related to defence against bad governance.

I think that in Europe we have far more faith in democracy than they do (I still haven't figured out if this is a good or bad thing)

I can definitely see the logic in it, not that I can see how it could be implemented (a popular armed uprising). Imagine Joe Public with his favourite .45 up against an F16/Apache - cause after all President is CIC and would have command of the military. Scenes from that Apache video could just as easily be in the US should an uprising occur.

Regarding crime - if carrying a fire-arm means that crime is deterred then why does the US not have the lowest crime rate in the world?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Until very recently I did not understand that in the US the right bear arms is so closely related to defence against bad governance.

I personaly get the feeling that was much more the intentions of the originals framers. I also think that argument holds abolutely no water in today's environment.

[PLFXpert 0]

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Do you carry epinepherine? If not, why not?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I do.

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[PLFXpert 0]

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Actually, I should check to see if it is expired.

Does pepper spray expire, I wonder?

I've had mine forever.

I was thinking of getting a new one--you know they make them with colorful rhinestones now. But, who would see it?

Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I think that in Europe we have far more faith in democracy than they do (I still haven't figured out if this is a good or bad thing)

Given European history in the 20th Century, seems rather a bad thing. Didn't work so well for the Germans in particular.

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I can definitely see the logic in it, not that I can see how it could be implemented (a popular armed uprising). Imagine Joe Public with his favourite .45 up against an F16/Apache - cause after all President is CIC and would have command of the military. Scenes from that Apache video could just as easily be in the US should an uprising occur.

If that's the case, why is Iraq going so badly? Or Vietnam? Or Algiers? India? ... And those are occupations of foreign lands. It's much harder to do within your own - you can't indiscriminately kill off your own citizens and enjoy much support.

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Regarding crime - if carrying a fire-arm means that crime is deterred then why does the US not have the lowest crime rate in the world?

guns don't stop all crime. and we have a drug war problem.

[btvr 0]

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Until very recently I did not understand that in the US the right bear arms is so closely related to defence against bad governance.

I personaly get the feeling that was much more the intentions of the originals framers. I also think that argument holds abolutely no water in today's environment.

Why? The Russians couldn't beat the Afgans just like we had trouble with the Viet cong. Look at Iraq now. Plus in a situation where the shit really were to hit the fan, do you think our soldiers would kill their own family. Prior to the South secession from the Union. About half of our military officers left and went to their home in the south as well as the soldiers. Now that I know is a bit far fetched but it happened once!
The individuals with their firearms who band together are a formidable enemy.