10 things non-gun people should know about Concealed Weapons permit holders.

[Clownburner 0]

(cross posted from another board)

1. We don't carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal
safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all
dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply
making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don't walk
down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don't get intoxicated in public or
hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and
don't hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is
our last resort, not our first.

2. We don't think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren't hoping
that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we
can shoot a criminal. We don't take it upon ourselves to get involved in
situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by
and being a good witness. We don't believe our guns give us any authority
over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer
bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to
some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of
responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extraordinary
circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you
out of situations you could have avoided.

3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or rage
incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed
citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the
responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of
temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a
traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are
more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don't pull
our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing
what we want.

4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children
and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have
invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other security
measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various
organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.

5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well made
precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to
fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not
discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun
simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on
its own.

6. We do not believe in the concept of accidental discharges. There are
no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional
discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how
to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun
going off was the result of negligence on somebody's part. Our
recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us
among the safest firearms owners in America.

7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly
that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow
citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our
clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime
are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that
our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes
irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do
happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear
thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that its
very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the
need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be
specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a
store manager or private security. Please don't generalize or
sensationalize what you observed. Comments like there's a guy running
around in the store with a gun or even simply I saw a man with a gun in
the store could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature
of the incident.

8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that
we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to
be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible.
However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any
time. Criminals do not observe gun free zones. If trouble does come, we
do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we
don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any
given time based on "how safe" we think a location is.

9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of
trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay
out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a
careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in
situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives.
Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers
are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the
attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when
resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal
can do as he pleases.

10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed
at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit
holders don't believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We
recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a
firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do
encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose
not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the
ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before:
criminals do not observe gun free zones. Help by not supporting laws that
require citizens to be unarmed victims.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[mnealtx 0]

Well said.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Richards 0]

Well said.

My biggest handicap is that sometimes the hole in the front of my head operates a tad bit faster than the grey matter contained within.

[DangerRoo 0]

good post!

(I.C.D#2 VP)
"<3 ..Looks like breasts coming out of an ice cream cone. Mmmm."~John Mitchell
"I'm good with my purple penis straw" ~sky mama

[masterrig 1]

Hear, hear!


Chuck

[skycop 0]

Spot on!!!

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[IanHarrop 42]

Quote

(cross posted from another board)

1. We don't carry firearms so that we can ignore other basics of personal
safety. Every permit holder that I know realizes that almost all
dangerous situations can be avoided by vigilance, alertness and by simply
making wise choices about where one goes and what one does. We don't walk
down dark alleys. We lock our cars. We don't get intoxicated in public or
hang out around people who do. We park our cars in well lighted spots and
don't hang out in bad parts of town where we have no business. A gun is
our last resort, not our first.

2. We don't think we are cops, spies, or superheros. We aren't hoping
that somebody tries to rob the convenience store while we are there so we
can shoot a criminal. We don't take it upon ourselves to get involved in
situations that are better handled by a 911 call or by simply standing by
and being a good witness. We don't believe our guns give us any authority
over our fellow citizens. We also aren't here to be your unpaid volunteer
bodyguard. We'll be glad to tell you where we trained and point you to
some good gun shops if you feel you want to take this kind of
responsibility for your personal safety. Except for extraordinary
circumstances your business is your business, don't expect us to help you
out of situations you could have avoided.

3. We are LESS likely, not more likely, to be involved in fights or rage
incidents than the general public. We recognize, better than many unarmed
citizens, that we are responsible for our actions. We take the
responsibility of carrying a firearm very seriously. We know that loss of
temper, getting into fights or angrily confronting someone after a
traffic incident could easily escalate into a dangerous situation. We are
more likely to go out of our way to avoid these situations. We don't pull
our guns to settle arguments or to attempt to threaten people into doing
what we want.

4. We are responsible gun owners. We secure our firearms so that children
and other unauthorized people cannot access them. Most of us have
invested in safes, cases and lock boxes as well as other security
measures to keep our firearms secure. Many of us belong to various
organizations that promote firearms safety and ownership.

5. Guns are not unsafe or unpredictable. Modern firearms are well made
precision instruments. Pieces do not simply break off causing them to
fire. A hot day will not set them off. Most modern firearms will not
discharge even if dropped. There is no reason to be afraid of a gun
simply laying on a table or in a holster. It is not going to discharge on
its own.

6. We do not believe in the concept of accidental discharges. There are
no accidental discharges only negligent discharges or intentional
discharges. We take responsibility for our actions and have learned how
to safely handle firearms. Any case you have ever heard of about a gun
going off was the result of negligence on somebody's part. Our
recognition of our responsibility and familiarity with firearms makes us
among the safest firearms owners in America.

7. Permit holders do their best to keep our concealed weapons exactly
that: concealed. However, there are times with an observant fellow
citizen may spot our firearm or the print of our firearm under our
clothes. We are very cognizant that concerns about terrorism and crime
are in the forefront of the minds of most citizens. We also realize that
our society does much to condition our fellow citizens to have sometimes
irrational fears about firearms. We would encourage citizens who do
happen to spot someone carrying a firearm to use good judgment and clear
thinking if they feel to need to take action. Please recognize that its
very uncommon for a criminal to use a holster. However, if you feel the
need to report having spotted a firearm we would ask that you please be
specific and detailed in your call to the police or in your report to a
store manager or private security. Please don't generalize or
sensationalize what you observed. Comments like there's a guy running
around in the store with a gun or even simply I saw a man with a gun in
the store could possibly cause a misunderstanding as to the true nature
of the incident.

8. The fact that we carry a firearm to any given place does not mean that
we believe that place to be inherently unsafe. If we believe a place to
be unsafe, most of us would avoid that place all together if possible.
However, we recognize that trouble could occur at any place and at any
time. Criminals do not observe gun free zones. If trouble does come, we
do not want the only armed persons to be perpetrators. Therefore, we
don't usually make a determination about whether or not to carry at any
given time based on "how safe" we think a location is.

9. Concealed weapon permit holders are an asset to the public in times of
trouble. The fact that most permit holders have the good judgment to stay
out of situations better handled by a 911 call or by simply being a
careful and vigilant witness does not mean that we would fail to act in
situations where the use of deadly force is appropriate to save lives.
Review of high profile public shooting incidents shows that when killers
are confronted by armed resistance they tend to either break off the
attack and flee or choose to end their own life. Lives are saved when
resistance engages a violent criminal. Lives are lost when the criminal
can do as he pleases.

10. The fact that criminals know that some of the population may be armed
at any given time helps to deter violence against all citizens. Permit
holders don't believe that every person should necessarily be armed. We
recognize that some people may not be temperamentally suited to carry a
firearm or simply may wish not to for personal reasons. However we do
encourage you to respect our right to arm ourselves. Even if you choose
not to carry a firearm yourself please oppose measures to limit the
ability of law abiding citizens to be armed. As mentioned before:
criminals do not observe gun free zones. Help by not supporting laws that
require citizens to be unarmed victims.

The broad use of the word "we" indicates that you speak for all persons that have a concealed weapon.

It amazes me that you can speak for all of them, that you know what is in the hearts and minds of all such individuals.

I am sure that many of them feel the way you do but I would suggest that there is a chance that not each and everyone of them hold your beliefs. Of course I have not asked them, same as you.

I don't have such a permit, but I do own several guns and don't have a problem with the ownership and responsible use of guns. It just amazes me that people feel so insecure that they need to have guns on their person, but then I don't live in a overly violent society.

Perhaps their insecurity is justified or maybe they're just paranoid, I don't know.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[warpedskydiver 0]

Violence has a way of finding people no matter where they go, or where they live.

Constant vigilance and training is what seperates victims from those who successfully defend themselves, or their loved ones when the time arrives.

[IanHarrop 42]

Quote

Violence has a way of finding people no matter where they go, or where they live.

Constant vigilance and training is what seperates victims from those who successfully defend themselves, or their loved ones when the time arrives.

Can't argue with that.

Do you believe that all holders of concealed weapons permits are only looking out for the best interests of society as the original post suggests? I don't.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[warpedskydiver 0]

All is a word that is used far too often and in error.

ALL, NONE, ALWAYS, etc.

I have no idea what is in the mind of every last person that has or applies for a CCW

[IanHarrop 42]

Quote

I have no idea what is in the mind of every last person that has or applies for a CCW

Then we agree that the original post is an over statement with its flagrant misuse of the word "we" suggesting that all CCW permit holders are of good character.

Glad to see that not everyone has bought into this rubbish.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

Do you believe that all holders of concealed weapons permits are only looking out for the best interests of society as the original post suggests? I don't.

No, I think some are just trying to come out with their own life if the shit hits the fan.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[IanHarrop 42]

Quote

Quote

Do you believe that all holders of concealed weapons permits are only looking out for the best interests of society as the original post suggests? I don't.

No, I think some are just trying to come out with their own life if the shit hits the fan.

ANother person that agrees with me that the original post is rubbish. Thanks!

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[warpedskydiver 0]

Well if he were to edit, and use another word more applicable than the word WE, would the message then be more to your liking?

If so, would it then be more correct in your opinion?

[warpedskydiver 0]

It was not rubbish, rather it was written in a way that allowed you to discount the content of the post.

Read all of it and see if many things stated are not true, if you can find those points, illustrate how they are not instead of calling the entire post RUBBISH.

The OP did not write it, but rather reposted it.

[FreeflyChile 0]

Quote

Well if he were to edit, and use another word more applicable than the word WE, would the message then be more to your liking?

If so, would it then be more correct in your opinion?

Sure, change all the "WE" to "I"

[IanHarrop 42]

Quote

Well if he were to edit, and use another word more applicable than the word WE, would the message then be more to your liking?

If so, would it then be more correct in your opinion?

The use of the word "many" instead of "we" would be more appropriate but thats not what was posted and what others responded to with words of encouragement.

The concept that all CCW holders are good is just as false as the concept that all CCW holders are bad. As such I think that the orginal post is simply foolish.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Clownburner 0]

Quote

Then we agree that the original post is an over statement with its flagrant misuse of the word "we" suggesting that all CCW permit holders are of good character.

First point: I didn't write the post; I cross-posted it because I thought it worthwhile. I said that right at the top.

Second point: 'we' refers to more than one person. It doesn't say 'all' or 'everyone', and thus it doesn't refer to all people - you're inferring that all on your own. The use of the term 'we' in that context is correct and it's not 'flagrant misuse.'

Third point: In order to get a CCW in most (probably all, but I'm not positive of that) states, you have to prove that you are of good character to the satisfaction of your local sheriff or police chief. So from that perspective, yes, all CCW holders should be of good character, unless they lied to the authorities in order to get a permit, which would make them a felon, at least in California. Gun owners, as a group, are not all of good character, but to get a CW permit, yes, you must be.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[normiss 871]

people should also keep in mind that simply having a CCW does not always mean we carry on our person.
It reduces the hassle factor to have one should you be transporting weapons for any number of reasons. It's nice to know I have a CCW when I have a piece in the car. It also changes the way the police treat you when stopped. (not always for the better mind you)
The legal wording (at least in Florida) was always hard to understand regarding having a weapon in the car..."the 3 move" rule wasn't very clear. My CCW clears that up fully.
There will always be those that believe because we have a CCW, we're just looking for an opportunity to kill someone - even some cops I know feel that way about armed civilians.

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

ANother person that agrees with me that the original post is rubbish. Thanks!

No I dont. Dont drag me into your side of this. I think the OP is great. I am just not one to sit here and gripe over certain words used in it. I agree with the OP.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[warpedskydiver 0]

That is the problem with many police officers who view the rest of society as civilians, police are civilians.

There are three classifications of people in the USA.

1. Civilian
2. Military
3. Veterans

Being a police officer does not make one a member of groups 2 or 3.

[IanHarrop 42]

Quote

...Third point: In order to get a CCW in most states, you have to prove that you are of good character to the satisfaction of your local sheriff or police chief. So from that perspective, yes, all CCW holders should be of good character, unless they lied to the authorities in order to get a permit, which would make them a felon, at least in California. Gun owners, as a group, are not all of good character, but to get a CW permit, yes, you must be.

So all CCW holders are of good character... except the ones that lie to get the permit. I can buy that.

LOL

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[normiss 871]

as we've dicussed many times in the past, you're one of the few I believe.

hey...I'm 2 out of 3!

[warpedskydiver 0]

Thanks man, at least someone does not automatically classify me as a dolt, just because they do not agree with me.

Closed minds breed contempt.

[Clownburner 0]

Quote

So all CCW holders are of good character... except the ones that lie to get the permit. I can buy that.

Yep, all lawful CCW holders are of demonstrably good character.

Criminals, even criminals with CCW permits (which are, according to all available evidence, extremely rare), are by definition not of good character.

Seems simple enough to me.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth