rehmwa 2 #26 October 24, 2007 Quote I love it when you submit. Shucks, ma'am ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBachelor 5 #27 October 24, 2007 The only card I have with a fee is my card that gets me frequent flier miles. For $50 a year, I get 40,000 or 50,000 miles, so that's two flights for $50. I do have an Amex card that gets miles with no fee, but that's my business card, and I don't use it nearly as much as the personal card. Since AMEX isn't accepted in as many places, I keep the Mastercard with the fee for personal use.There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #28 October 24, 2007 Ha. Ha. You said AMEX isn't accepted. I'll bet it is. Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 3 #29 October 24, 2007 Quote the merchant is taking the hit for your "reward"? Yep, your use of a reward card costs the merchant more in credit card fees, which is passed on to you. So who really wins here? AMEX, Mastercard, and Visa. Not you. You're only looking at the merchant's overhead (his credit card fees), but you're ignoring the countervailing factor of an increase in the merchant's gross income, resulting from sales to customers who would otherwise not make the purchase at all if they could not do so by credit card. So yes, while the fees do apply upward pressure to retail prices, the increased gross income applies downward pressure to those prices. You've got to look at the net of the two, or your analysis is incomplete. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #30 October 25, 2007 QuoteYou're only looking at the merchant's overhead (his credit card fees), but you're ignoring the countervailing factor of an increase in the merchant's gross income, resulting from sales to customers who would otherwise not make the purchase at all if they could not do so by credit card. PLus the cost of increased risk associated with cash on hand, transportation costs etc. I think you'll find that most high volume businesses would prefer plastic over cash. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #31 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe last time I did it, I transfered $3k, and was charged a one-time fee of about $75. That was equal to about one month's interest charges on that sum on the old card. Therefore, the annual savings was still the other 11 months worth of interest charges. 30% interest? If you're getting hit with those sort of rates, I'm suprised you could do a transfer. No, not 30%. A one time fee of 2.5%. You can only get to 30% if you annualize that rate (2.5% x 12), but it's not annualized - it's one-time. The other 11 months are free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #32 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteThat works great, if you have the income. Right now, I don't. Lots of people don't. Therefore, lower interest rates are vital to them. I'd submit that not buying things is more vital to them. I'm not talking about buying luxury items, but rather paying for emergencies. You can't choose to not buy a necessary $1,000 car repair. That kind of expense has to be spread out over multiple months, and a credit card is the way to do it for many people who don't have high incomes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #33 October 25, 2007 Quote Ha. Ha. You said AMEX isn't accepted. I'll bet it is. Many gas stations won't take AmEx. But they all take Mastercard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #34 October 25, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteThe last time I did it, I transfered $3k, and was charged a one-time fee of about $75. That was equal to about one month's interest charges on that sum on the old card. Therefore, the annual savings was still the other 11 months worth of interest charges. 30% interest? If you're getting hit with those sort of rates, I'm suprised you could do a transfer. No, not 30%. A one time fee of 2.5%. You can only get to 30% if you annualize that rate (2.5% x 12), but it's not annualized - it's one-time. The other 11 months are free. you said 75$ equaled a months interest on the old card. Doing the math, that's a 30% APR. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #35 October 25, 2007 Quote I'm not talking about buying luxury items, but rather paying for emergencies. You can't choose to not buy a necessary $1,000 car repair. Although you can expect car repairs (and maintenance) as your vehicle ages and save for them. A $1000 repair expected every 2 years is $40 a month up front. A $500 set of tires you go through every 3 years are $13 a month. Etc. This is especially true when the car is paid off and your only other auto expenses are gas and insurance. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #36 October 26, 2007 How true, often the best course of action is to continue to pay your car payments when your loan is paid off, but to pay it to yourself, into a seperate savings or investment account for just such expenses. (and to start saving for the downpayment of your next car) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #37 October 26, 2007 QuoteHow true, often the best course of action is to continue to pay your car payments when your loan is paid off, but to pay it to yourself, into a seperate savings or investment account for just such expenses. (and to start saving for the downpayment of your next car) that just nuts - why, you'd save all sorts of money over time and just be able to buy a car right out, avoiding all the interest on loans, etc. What are you? some kind of child hater? you need to spend that money so the government gets taxes to pay for social programs. Then, take out a loan on the next car so you pay $25,000 on a $20,000 car. If the money is in a bank account, then you are just hoarding wealth, just like your repubican buddies ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #39 October 26, 2007 Nice!!! Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #40 October 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteI'm not talking about buying luxury items, but rather paying for emergencies. You can't choose to not buy a necessary $1,000 car repair. Although you can expect car repairs (and maintenance) as your vehicle ages and save for them. A $1000 repair expected every 2 years is $40 a month up front. If you think that the average American keeps $1,000 cash laying around for emergency car repairs, then I believe you have an unrealistic view of the large majority of working families in this country, who can barely get by, living paycheck-to-paycheck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #41 October 26, 2007 QuoteI believe you have an unrealistic view of the large majority of working families in this country, who can barely get by, living paycheck-to-paycheck. certainly money management skills should be taught at an early age and they are not - anybody can learn to live within their means. It's a choice to live paycheck to paycheck. (though it can be EXTREMELY difficult to avoid that at any income level). His point is clear - you CAN have $1000 'laying around' (collecting interest) if you have the discipline to set aside $40 a month (2 jumps). You can 'pre-save' for your next car INSTEAD of taking a loan and it saves a TON of money. these are choices, not fate ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #42 October 26, 2007 You have jumped away $100,000. How can you claim it is hard to have a $1,000 on hand? Just takes a little bit of will power. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Channman 2 #43 October 26, 2007 ...its been two years since I even used the damn thing.) Credit Cards are the Great Evil and have caused the ruin of many. You did the right thing in cancelling the shell card once again...but beware you maybe required to yet again cancel it next year. Credit Card companies are like nats, can't swat em fast enough. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PLFXpert 0 #44 October 26, 2007 If credit cards are your great evil, I'm going with Ruffles. Damn ridges. I can't resist.Paint me in a corner, but my color comes back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,184 #45 October 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not talking about buying luxury items, but rather paying for emergencies. You can't choose to not buy a necessary $1,000 car repair. Although you can expect car repairs (and maintenance) as your vehicle ages and save for them. A $1000 repair expected every 2 years is $40 a month up front. If you think that the average American keeps $1,000 cash laying around for emergency car repairs, then I believe you have an unrealistic view of the large majority of working families in this country, who can barely get by, living paycheck-to-paycheck. Yes, ever since they cut the taxes on us super wealthy upper class folks the load shifted to the average working family.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #46 October 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not talking about buying luxury items, but rather paying for emergencies. You can't choose to not buy a necessary $1,000 car repair. Although you can expect car repairs (and maintenance) as your vehicle ages and save for them. A $1000 repair expected every 2 years is $40 a month up front. If you think that the average American keeps $1,000 cash laying around for emergency car repairs, then I believe you have an unrealistic view of the large majority of working families in this country, who can barely get by, living paycheck-to-paycheck. While I don't think the average American keeps $1000 on hand for car repairs, I also don't think it's hard to save that much over a few years once you get a bit above the poverty level. Beers at bars are pushing $5 each, cable or satellite TV can easily run $60 a month, etc. Fast food costs much more than home cooking. Not driving a newer new-to-you car saves a $300+ monthly payment. Communal living arrangements save a lot more. Within the skydiving community, two fewer jumps a month will do it in less than 2 years. I also think that six months of living expenses is a much better goal to cover job-loss or radical reductions in income. No one is immune, just the reasons are different. Small companies go out of business or get acquired with office closures by the new owners. Large companies have lay-offs. Independent contractors are affected by economic slowdowns. That could be under $3000 for a ramen-eating bicycle-riding single person with room-mates or $30000+ for a family with more elaborate living arrangements. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #47 October 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteI believe you have an unrealistic view of the large majority of working families in this country, who can barely get by, living paycheck-to-paycheck. certainly money management skills should be taught at an early age and they are not - anybody can learn to live within their means. It's a choice to live paycheck to paycheck. (though it can be EXTREMELY difficult to avoid that at any income level). His point is clear - you CAN have $1000 'laying around' (collecting interest) if you have the discipline to set aside $40 a month (2 jumps). You can 'pre-save' for your next car INSTEAD of taking a loan and it saves a TON of money. these are choices, not fate No, it is not a choice for many people. Apparently you've never been poor, or you wouldn't be making such claims. I can tell you that as a young Marine, earning $320 per month, with a wife and child to support, saving up $1,000 was not an option. I usually had to borrow $20 from Navy Relief near the end of the pay period to buy groceries to get through. For many people, there simply isn't enough money to save, no matter how hard they try. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #48 October 26, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI believe you have an unrealistic view of the large majority of working families in this country, who can barely get by, living paycheck-to-paycheck. certainly money management skills should be taught at an early age and they are not - anybody can learn to live within their means. It's a choice to live paycheck to paycheck. (though it can be EXTREMELY difficult to avoid that at any income level). His point is clear - you CAN have $1000 'laying around' (collecting interest) if you have the discipline to set aside $40 a month (2 jumps). You can 'pre-save' for your next car INSTEAD of taking a loan and it saves a TON of money. these are choices, not fate No, it is not a choice for many people. Apparently you've never been poor, or you wouldn't be making such claims. I can tell you that as a young Marine, earning $320 per month, with a wife and child to support, saving up $1,000 was not an option. I usually had to borrow $20 from Navy Relief near the end of the pay period to buy groceries to get through. For many people, there simply isn't enough money to save, no matter how hard they try. That's well below the poverty level for which I made an exception. I've did it at $10 an hour in 1993. We had some inflation between then and the 2000 census, although at that point over 93% of the working households in America were earning more. The median household income in 2000 was $48,000. Half the country earns more. The average American could easily save that sort of money after making different lifestyle choices. Those beyond the bottom 7% should be able to. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #49 October 26, 2007 Quote The average American could easily save that sort of money after making different lifestyle choices. Those beyond the bottom 7% should be able to. yes, the average American is buying giant SUVs, multiple TVs, and eating out rather than cooking at home. It's hard for that demographic to claim they can't save 3 months for emergency needs. Failing to do so makes little mishaps very expensive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #50 October 29, 2007 Quoteno, it is not a choice for many people. Apparently you've never been poor, or you wouldn't be making such claims. I can tell you that as a young Marine, earning $320 per month, with a wife and child to support, saving up $1,000 was not an option. I usually had to borrow $20 from Navy Relief near the end of the pay period to buy groceries to get through. For many people, there simply isn't enough money to save, no matter how hard they try. you keep becoming more and more of a liberal every day John - in both outlook and debate techniques. As soon as you start talking about banning guns, I'm sending a get well card Edit - Oh, BTW - "Wahhhh" If you want to have a 'who was more poor' contest, we can do that. I have a pretty good position with the farmboy on rented land (yes, we didn't even own the 240 acre farm) position and working my way through college angle. But I don't see the point. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
