Forget the 9mm... I want a .40

[Nightingale 0]

I went to the range today, because after the week I've had I really needed to blow off some stress. I felt like shooting something that would make bigger holes in the target than the 9mm Glock 17 I usually rent when I want to practice with something with more power than my .22 ruger, so I asked for an HK USP .40. That gun is a wonderful piece of engineering! I've crossed the 9mm off my "to buy after vet bills are paid" list and replaced it with the .40. It's a little more expensive to practice with, but the extra firepower is probably worth it. Opinions?

[mnealtx 0]

I've shot a 9mm version of it...nice pistol!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[1969912 0]

Try a SIG P-229 out. I have small hands and the only pistol that really felt right to me was the P-228 (replaced by 229). They are really nice guns. SIG has a Certified Pre-Owned program wherein they buy guns back from police agencies and totally refinish and rebuild them. Not sure what the price difference is. Do some research on .40 vs 9mm in re stopping power. A good 9mm load is pretty deadly.

Here's a P229 with an integrated laser:

http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=8&productid=67

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[mnealtx 0]

Wouldn't there be more bore erosion and barrel wear from a hot 9mm vs the 40, though?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[1969912 0]

Quote

Wouldn't there be more bore erosion and barrel wear from a hot 9mm vs the 40, though?

I have never used the "+P" or "+P+" high pressure ammo. I'm not sure if overpressure ammo really makes much difference. 124 grain 9mm +P+ only gives about 50 fps and 25 Ft-lbs more energy at point-blank compared to regular ammo. That's ~9% more energy. Normally I just use low cost ball ammo for practice and keep the gun full of Federal Hydra-Shok the rest of the time because of the cost of good ammo.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[mnealtx 0]

Gotcha...I presumed you meant a +P 9mm... my bad.

I looked up some comparison info...this comes from Marshall/Fuller's database on stopping power.

.40 auto
Load Vel. KE Pen Exp. %1SS
Corbon135gJHP 1300 507 9.8 0.56 96%
Fedrl 155grJHP 1140 448 12 0.65 94%
165gr Goldsabr 1150 485 12 0.68 94%

9mm auto
Load Vel. KE Pen Exp. %1SS
Corbon115grJHP+P 1350 466 14 0.55 91%
Rem.124grGoldSabr+P 1180 384 12 0.65 83%
Win 115grSiltip 1225 383 8 0.72 83%

Friggin formatting.... oh well, it's still readable I guess.

Looks like there's good choices in both. The 40 has an edge in stopping power (per the database, anyway - how any particular individual will react is, of course, highly variable), but the 9mm still does fine...and is a lot cheaper to practice with, as well.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[akarunway 1]

Quote

I went to the range today, because after the week I've had I really needed to blow off some stress. I felt like shooting something that would make bigger holes in the target than the 9mm Glock 17 I usually rent when I want to practice with something with more power than my .22 ruger, so I asked for an HK USP .40. That gun is a wonderful piece of engineering! I've crossed the 9mm off my "to buy after vet bills are paid" list and replaced it with the .40. It's a little more expensive to practice with, but the extra firepower is probably worth it. Opinions?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.357_SIGAnd use tthis ammohttp://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product_10151_-1_10001_28592_400004003_400000000_400004000_400-4-3

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[jenfly00 0]

Quote

Try a SIG P-229 out. I have small hands and the only pistol that really felt right to me was the P-228 (replaced by 229). They are really nice guns. SIG has a Certified Pre-Owned program wherein they buy guns back from police agencies and totally refinish and rebuild them. Not sure what the price difference is. Do some research on .40 vs 9mm in re stopping power. A good 9mm load is pretty deadly.

Here's a P229 with an integrated laser:

http://www.sigsauer.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=8&productid=67

My Sig 228 (short trigger) is my favorite carry piece. I've put just short of two thousands rounds through both the 228 and my Glock 23. In addition to feeling more natural in my hand, I find the I have more control with the 9mm. Stopping power doesn't matter, if you miss your target. With the Sig, I can put five hand held shots in a three inch group at 25 yards. The Glock (.40) moves the grouping out an additional inch and a half. YMMV.

Lastly, while the Glock is a well made tool, the Sig is a thing of beauty.

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[1969912 0]

Quote

Stopping power doesn't matter, if you miss your target.

Doesn't the Sig have a cool slide spring?

Good point. Hitting the target is somewhat important. Actually having the gun with you is also important.

I also have a tiny Beretta .22 auto that will fit in a pocket. I ended up carrying that way more than the Sig because it was so small. There are a lot of people that carry .380 autos because they are pretty small and a lot easier to conceal/carry. See pic for size comparison (the little gun in the pic is actually a .32, but .380's are the same size).

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[normiss 897]

Agree entirely!
I have a Sig 229, with Crimson Trace Laser grips. I absolutely love this piece!!!
I want the SAS model just because they're so beautiful. Sig 40 SAS
I think a 9mm is much better sized for concealed carry though...those 40 cals are big pieces...fit fine in the car, but not in my waistband.
The small frame 9mm Glock on the other hand...simply disappears inside the waistband.

[kschilk 0]

9's and .32/.380s are fun for target, 'coz you can pull the trigger....then run down to the target and watch the bullet hit. Nothing signals serious intent better, than the glint from the long barrel of a .454.

"T'was ever thus."

[piper17 1]

While the .40 will give better stopping power in many cases, the 9mm should do just fine with the right ammo. Where the 9mm gets a bad rap is in the military role when it is required to use ball ammo. If the military could use jacketed hollow point ammo, it would perform a lot better...but not nearly as well as a .45acp.

I own a bunch of firearms and while my favorites for shooting are .45acp (Colt 1911 & Colt LW Commander both with extensive gunsmithing done to them by Clark Custom), I really like the Springfield XD sub-compact in 9mm I just bought.

While I was debating between the 9mm and the .40, I settled on the 9mm for controllability and the fact that it is cheaper to shoot...so I will shoot it more. The two guns are the same size and price.

I've owned Glocks but wasn't thrilled with them (just my personal preference and a recurring failure to feed issue with the Glock 23 (.40) despite a trip back to Glock) and I own a Sig P-239 in .357 Sig.

The Sig is a really nice piece and I carry it during the winter. I bought a used Colt Cobra revolver (alloy version of the Detective Special) earlier this year. It is .38 special only (no +P) and is very concealable. Since .38 special is one of the calibers I reload (I shoot .38 for Cowboy Action Shooting), it is quite cheap for me to shoot also.

For overall concealability, power, ergonomics, the Springfield XD is my personal favorite, hands down and will be now my primary carry pistol. I guess I will have to start reloading 9mm now.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[warpedskydiver 0]

Talk about concealability, you should see vortex hiding his blunderbuss down his trouser leg.

It drives all the birds mad!

That is how he hooked his missus.

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

Opinions?

229 Sig .40 You will love it. While you are looking at a Sig and different rounds I suggest looking into Sig 357 . If I remember correctly it is a European round that hasnt gotten a lot of talk over here but it has some great power. Check it out.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Nightingale 0]

Most sigs don't fit my hand right, but I will look into it.

[BIGUN 1,486]

IMO, there's no better _stopping power_ than the sound of an 870 chambering a round.

I've often considered inventing a house alarm that made that sound, rather than a regular house alarm.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[AWL71 0]

I prefer .40 over 9mm myself. I compete in USPSA matches with .40 caliber so I also practice with .40 caliber. And extra stopping power is also a good thing. I say go with the HK USP. It is an excellent pistol and if you feel comfortable and confident shooting it then you have your answer.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

IMO, there's no better _stopping power_ than the sound of an 870 chambering a round.

I've often considered inventing a house alarm that made that sound, rather than a regular house alarm.

Sorta like those portable alarms you can hang on your doorknob that sounds like a rabid German Shepherd losing it's mind?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[piper17 1]

Actually, the .357 Sig round is being used by quite a number of law enforcement agencies in this country...including at least one federal agency.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[Clownburner 0]

Quote

Most sigs don't fit my hand right, but I will look into it.

I have two issues with SIGs, though they do shoot nice:

1) The safety is a forced decock, so you can't carry cocked-and-locked. The DA trigger pull is pretty damn stiff. This can probably be gunsmithed, but that's expensive (and can affect reliability).
2) They're heavy as sin. This is probably my bias since I came from the USP polymer side of the fence; if you're used to a 1911 they probably feel like a bag of feathers.

As to the 9mm vs 40 argument.. There's a lot of debate about it. However, there are three things which are not subject to debate in the caliber wars: 1) Bigger holes are always better. A 9mm that doesn't expand is 9mm, but a .40 (or .45) won't ever get smaller. 2) heavier bullets go deeper. 3) shot placement is king. A police officer in PA just last week shot a suspect 9 times with a .45ACP, and the suspect walked into the ambulance by himself. There's no magic death ray*.

Having bought and fired about 2000 rounds in the last 3 weeks, I can tell you that the price difference between .40 and 9mm isn't huge if you shop around for range ammo. Yes, it's more expensive, but usually only like $3-4 a box.

If you don't mind the extra recoil of the .40 and the gun fits your hand, go with that. You always have the .22 for plinking at the range with. Hell, give a 45GAP or 45ACP a try while you're at it - some people find the slower recoil to be more pleasant, and that's even a more powerful round still.

PS: You can also rent a 500S&W magnum at the range by my house, if you want to see what a real hand cannon is like.


*50BMG isn't legal in CA, and you can't conceal one. But that might count as a damn-near-guaranteed one-shot stop.

7CP#1 | BTR#2 | Payaso en fuego Rodriguez
"I want hot chicks in my boobies!"- McBeth

[Lefty 0]

I'm a die-hard fan of the 9mm in autoloaders. Magazine capacity is a huge factor for me, and the 9mm ammo made for self-defense will put someone on their ass just as surely as a .40 will, provided your shot placement is good. Still, I'm no hater, and the .40 is a great round. The USP is an excellent piece, but I'd take my Walther over it any day. Hope you're happy with whatever you choose!

Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful.
-Calvin

[piper17 1]

If you've fired 2,000 rounds in the last few weeks, that would equate to 40 boxes of ammo (50rds/box). If the price difference is $3-$4 per box, then you are talking $120-$160 price difference. Not an insignificant piece of change.

9mm, .357Sig, .40, .45acp are all fine rounds and I own pistols in all of these calibers. I'd prefer to carry a .45acp (I prefer making big holes, too) but they tend to be bigger and heavier than desirable, especially in summer or climates where it is warm most of the time. I had a Para Ordnance Covert Carry (.45acp) with the LDA trigger but after it failed twice in about 100 rounds (requiring a trip to the factory repair center each time), I put it on consignment at my favorite "toy" store and bought the Springfield XD sub-compact. Now, if Springfield comes up with a .45acp sub-compact, I'll be trading in my 9mm! ;>)

Guess it all depends on what you intend to use it for, personal experience, and personal preference.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[DrewEckhardt 0]

You might try a 1911 (you have a Ruger 22-45 not a Mk II, right?) which should have a nice crisp single-action trigger.

[ExAFO 0]

It might just be personal preference, but I tend to train myself out of DA trigger pulls by thumb-cocking the hammer on my PPK as I draw it... I hate DA trigger pulls.

Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW.

[Rookie120 0]

Quote

Most sigs don't fit my hand right, but I will look into it.

Small hands? I have fairly small hands and the Sig fits great.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!