European Glacier growing due to Global Warming

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/10/15/eamont115.xml

Global warming makes Mont Blanc grow

Mont Blanc, the highest mountain in France and western Europe, has grown more than two metres in two years - ironically as a result of global warming, experts have found.
The Alps' tallest peak was measured at 4,810.90 metres (15,784 feet) last month, surveyors from France's Haute-Savoie region announced.


Volume of ice on Mont Blanc has doubled since 2005
Generations of French schoolchildren were taught the famous peak was 4,807 metres tall, but it has been growing since 2003 and at a faster rate in recent months.

"The height as well as the volume of Mont Blanc has increased considerably, because the snow has massed on the summit over the last two years," said Philippe Borel, one of the survey team, at a meeting in the nearby resort of Chamonix.

The volume of ice on Mont Blanc's slopes has almost doubled since 2005 to reach 24,100 cubic metres this year, while snow has built up due to greater frequency of winds and higher temperatures in the summer, believed to be cause by global warming.

"This brings sticky snow above 4,000 metres up which grips onto the mountainside," said Yan Giezendanner, a meteorologist.
The phenomenon appears to go against the trend of sparser snow and ice on other European peaks that is a great concern to ski resorts and ski lovers.

Mr Giezendanner said such "growth" in mountains was specific to higher Alpine peaks.

"Glaciers at high altitude seem to be growing, while those situated at mid or low altitude are melting, shrinking and threatened with extinction," he said.
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Can't wait for the next one, like "Sea level falls due to global warming" or "Camels freezing to death, due to global warming."

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[akarunway 1]

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/10/15/eamont115.xml

Global warming makes Mont Blanc grow

Mont Blanc, the highest mountain in France and western Europe, has grown more than two metres in two years - ironically as a result of global warming, experts have found.
The Alps' tallest peak was measured at 4,810.90 metres (15,784 feet) last month, surveyors from France's Haute-Savoie region announced.


Volume of ice on Mont Blanc has doubled since 2005
Generations of French schoolchildren were taught the famous peak was 4,807 metres tall, but it has been growing since 2003 and at a faster rate in recent months.

"The height as well as the volume of Mont Blanc has increased considerably, because the snow has massed on the summit over the last two years," said Philippe Borel, one of the survey team, at a meeting in the nearby resort of Chamonix.

The volume of ice on Mont Blanc's slopes has almost doubled since 2005 to reach 24,100 cubic metres this year, while snow has built up due to greater frequency of winds and higher temperatures in the summer, believed to be cause by global warming.

"This brings sticky snow above 4,000 metres up which grips onto the mountainside," said Yan Giezendanner, a meteorologist.
The phenomenon appears to go against the trend of sparser snow and ice on other European peaks that is a great concern to ski resorts and ski lovers.

Mr Giezendanner said such "growth" in mountains was specific to higher Alpine peaks.

"Glaciers at high altitude seem to be growing, while those situated at mid or low altitude are melting, shrinking and threatened with extinction," he said.
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Can't wait for the next one, like "Sea level falls due to global warming" or "Camels freezing to death, due to global warming."

So you're saying Al Gore is a liar? I guess next is he didn't invent the internet.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[vpozzoli 0]

Did you bother even reading the article?

Cheers,

Vale

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Did you bother even reading the article?

Cheers,

Vale

Yes

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[Royd 0]

Won't this eventually cause everything to become top heavy, thus causing the earth to spin faster, which will then sling the snow off of the tops of the mountains? Then everything will come back to normal.

[billvon 3,085]

>Can't wait for the next one, like "Sea level falls due to global warming"
>or "Camels freezing to death, due to global warming."

Do you believe that warmer temperatures always cause less precipitation? If so, you may have some basic misunderstandings concerning weather patterns.

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>Can't wait for the next one, like "Sea level falls due to global warming"
>or "Camels freezing to death, due to global warming."

Do you believe that warmer temperatures always cause less precipitation? If so, you may have some basic misunderstandings concerning weather patterns.

I believe the list of things attributed to global warming is so long that even Chuck Norris would have problems counting them all ( and Chuck has counted to infinity..... twice).


To answer your question properly though, I do not believe warmer temperatures always cause less precipitation. I would have thought it would be the other way round. Warmer temperatures cause more evaporation, which causes more clouds, which causes more precipitation. However, the increase in cloud cover could cause more cooling, or warming depending on where the clouds are. Also, where the clouds release their moisture decides whether Global warming is going to cause "massive" droughts, or "massive" flooding. You see with Global Warming, we will only have extremes.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[billvon 3,085]

>I do not believe warmer temperatures always cause less precipitation.

I agree!

>I would have thought it would be the other way round. Warmer
>temperatures cause more evaporation, which causes more clouds, which
>causes more precipitation.

Over water - generally true. Over land, generally higher temperatures cause drying of the soil and thus results in _less_ rain over the course of a year.

>However, the increase in cloud cover could cause more cooling, or warming
>depending on where the clouds are.

Agreed (mainly depending on _when_ they form; nighttime clouds = warmer.)

> Also, where the clouds release their moisture decides whether Global
> warming is going to cause "massive" droughts, or "massive" flooding. You
> see with Global Warming, we will only have extremes.

Where do you get that? The rest of your post made a lot of sense.

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Where do you get that? The rest of your post made a lot of sense.

Al Gore

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[billvon 3,085]

>Al Gore

Did you read his book and/or see his documentary?

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Over water - generally true. Over land, generally higher temperatures cause drying of the soil and thus results in _less_ rain over the course of a year.

Where does the evaporated moisture from the soil go? Are you saying the all the extra moisture in the air providing the feedback mechanism needed for the alarmists is only going to produce rain over the oceans?
It sounds like you are saying deserts do not get any rain because the soil is dry. Most people believe the deserts are dry because they don't get any rain.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[rehmwa 2]

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It sounds like you are saying deserts do not get any rain because the soil is dry. Most people believe the deserts are dry because they don't get any rain.

It's a viscious cycle.

(or a viscous cycle - one of the two)

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[NCclimber 0]

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Over land, generally higher temperatures cause drying of the soil and thus results in _less_ rain over the course of a year.

But warmer temps (over land) are causing snow accumulation on Mont Blanc. Why?

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Over land, generally higher temperatures cause drying of the soil and thus results in _less_ rain over the course of a year.

But warmer temps (over land) are causing snow accumulation on Mont Blanc. Why?

Because global warming causes "sticky snow". That's another one for Chuck Norris to count.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[NCclimber 0]

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Quote

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Over land, generally higher temperatures cause drying of the soil and thus results in _less_ rain over the course of a year.

But warmer temps (over land) are causing snow accumulation on Mont Blanc. Why?

Because global warming causes "sticky snow". That's another one for Chuck Norris to count.

I'm familiar with this "sticky snow". By noon, it has usually turned to "slush".

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Won't this eventually cause everything to become top heavy, thus causing the earth to spin faster, which will then sling the snow off of the tops of the mountains? Then everything will come back to normal.

Actually, it would (if taken to some absurd conclusion), make the world spin slower.

Google "conservation of angular momentum".

At least, that's my theory and I'm stickin' to it!

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Actually, it would (if taken to some absurd conclusion), make the world spin slower.

That is another one for Chuck Norris to count.
Global warming makes the earth spin slower

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl

[quade 4]

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But warmer temps (over land) are causing snow accumulation on Mont Blanc. Why?

This is why in recent years the push has been to go away from the term "Global Warming" and toward "Global Climate Change".

Global Warming gives the impression that the entire Earth, every inch of it will all become hotter. This is not actually the case. The entire planet's average temperature does get hotter, but some areas get much hotter and some will actually appear to get somewhat cooler.

Now, to address your basic question of, "But warmer temps (over land) are causing snow accumulation on Mont Blanc. Why?"

Warmer air can carry more moisture. Certain mountain tops are so high and constantly cold, that, historically, they actually get very little precipitation. As global climate change happens, the warmer moist air will rise to those levels and allow for more precip at those elevation levels, whereas previously most of the moisture would have been condensed of the air before it got there.

As the article states, this is only going to happen in a few select and extreme locations.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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Actually, it would (if taken to some absurd conclusion), make the world spin slower.

That is another one for Chuck Norris to count.
Global warming makes the earth spin slower

I think I may have mentioned the ABSURD CONCLUSION part somewhere. THAT is clearly nothing to get worked up about at this time.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[JackC 0]

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But warmer temps (over land) are causing snow accumulation on Mont Blanc. Why?

Precipitation levels in the Alps have historically remained fairly constant but recent changes in the weather patterns have increased the frequency of a westerly wind which brings with it greater levels of precipitation. The altitude of Mont Blanc means the precipitation falls as snow.

[mnealtx 0]

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>Al Gore

Did you read his book and/or see his documentary?

Is this another one of those deals like how a weather scientist knows more about statistics than a statistician?

(above only valid if the weatherman is part of the 'consensus', obviously)

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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Is this another one of those deals like how a weather scientist knows more about statistics than a statistician?

It's pretty hard to be a weather professional without taking a course or two in stats, my guess is that the reverse is not true.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,085]

>Is this another one of those deals like how a weather scientist knows
>more about statistics than a statistician?

No. Next question!

[billvon 3,085]

>Where does the evaporated moisture from the soil go?

Into the air. Warmer air holds more water than colder air, thus transporting the water away more effectively.

>Are you saying the all the extra moisture in the air providing the feedback
>mechanism needed for the alarmists is only going to produce rain over the
>oceans?

No.

>It sounds like you are saying deserts do not get any rain because the soil
>is dry. Most people believe the deserts are dry because they don't get any
>rain.

Both statements are true. Jungles _cause_ rain because plants transpire a tremendous amount of water. The rain hits the ground, and the ground cover tends to trap it and prevent immediate re-evaporation or runoff; it is then available to the trees for re-transpiration over the next few weeks. This tends to spread precipitation over the course of a year, as opposed to deserts which get their rain in short bursts during the rainy season - and lose most of it to runoff.

Removing said forests can thus affect the climate as well, as we've seen near Mt. Kilimanjaro. Indeed, deforestation, once taken past a certain point, can turn a jungle into a desert because of this effect - which we have sadly seen in several places. In north and northwest China, the average annual precipitation decreased by one third between the 1950s and the 1980s due to deforestation.

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>It sounds like you are saying deserts do not get any rain because the soil
>is dry. Most people believe the deserts are dry because they don't get any
>rain.

Both statements are true. Jungles _cause_ rain because plants transpire a tremendous amount of water. The rain hits the ground, and the ground cover tends to trap it and prevent immediate re-evaporation or runoff; it is then available to the trees for re-transpiration over the next few weeks. This tends to spread precipitation over the course of a year, as opposed to deserts which get their rain in short bursts during the rainy season - and lose most of it to runoff.

Removing said forests can thus affect the climate as well, as we've seen near Mt. Kilimanjaro. Indeed, deforestation, once taken past a certain point, can turn a jungle into a desert because of this effect - which we have sadly seen in several places. In north and northwest China, the average annual precipitation decreased by one third between the 1950s and the 1980s due to deforestation.

Thank you for the explanation, I did not realize that plants transported so much moisture into the air. I really thought that the plants where there because of the moisture.

So if I understand correctly the droughts are nothing to do with global warming, it's the people cutting down the trees that are the problem.

Dave

Fallschirmsport Marl