kallend 2,147 #101 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote What makes you think that? Unions are overwhelmingly liberal and there aren't too many teachers outside of the union. If it walks like a duck..... Well, you are assuming that the teachers have control of the system. Bad assumption. Seems like he was assuming the teacher's UNIONS have some control of the system. Is that a bad assumption? Perhaps you intentionally (and conveniently) missed that point. Are you now saying that some liberals have some level of control of the system? That was not the original claim that I disputed. No. The point is that teachers unions have an obvious liberal leaning and they have a major influence over most of the education systems in this country. I disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #102 October 15, 2007 I disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence.Quote Yes and we all know who runs the Department of Educaton. Take a wild guess as to what political ideology they embrace? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #103 October 15, 2007 QuoteI disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence.Quote Yes and we all know who runs the Department of Educaton. Margaret Spellings runs the DoE. Nominated by George W. Bush, confirmed by a GOP controlled Senate. Quote Take a wild guess as to what political ideology they embrace? From her own biography: Prior to her tenure as Education Secretary, Spellings served as Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy, where she helped create the No Child Left Behind Act and crafted policies on education, immigration, health care, labor, transportation, justice, housing, and other elements of the President's domestic agenda. Previously, Spellings worked for six years as Senior Advisor to Governor George W. Bush with responsibility for developing and implementing the Governor's education reforms and policies. From the White House and the Statehouse to the school board and college campus, Spellings has been involved with education policy at every level. So thanks for confirming my point. The DoE is firmly in the hands of the neo-cons.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #104 October 15, 2007 You extrapolate like a kindergartner(when it suits you) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #105 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteNo. The point is that teachers unions have an obvious liberal leaning and they have a major influence over most of the education systems in this country. I disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence. From wikipedia: QuoteIn recent decades the NEA has greatly increased its visibility in party politics, endorsing almost exclusively Democratic Party candidates and contributing funds and other assistance to political campaigns. The NEA asserts itself "non-partisan", but critics point out that the NEA has endorsed and provided support for every Democratic Party presidential nominee from Jimmy Carter to John Kerry and has never endorsed any Republican or third party candidate for the nation's highest office. Based on required filings with the federal government, it is estimated that between 1990 and 2002 ninety percent of the NEA's substantial political contributions went to Democratic Party candidates. Although this has been questioned as being out of balance with the more diverse political views of the broader membership, the NEA maintains that it bases support for candidates primarily on the organization's interpretation of candidates' support for public education and educators. Others benefitting from NEA funding, according to the most recent filings, include Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, Amnesty International and AIDS Walk Washington. The NEA gave $65 million in its members' dues to left-liberal groups in 2005. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #106 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote No. The point is that teachers unions have an obvious liberal leaning and they have a major influence over most of the education systems in this country. I disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence. From wikipedia: Quote In recent decades the NEA has greatly increased its visibility in party politics, endorsing almost exclusively Democratic Party candidates and contributing funds and other assistance to political campaigns. The NEA asserts itself "non-partisan", but critics point out that the NEA has endorsed and provided support for every Democratic Party presidential nominee from Jimmy Carter to John Kerry and has never endorsed any Republican or third party candidate for the nation's highest office. Based on required filings with the federal government, it is estimated that between 1990 and 2002 ninety percent of the NEA's substantial political contributions went to Democratic Party candidates. Although this has been questioned as being out of balance with the more diverse political views of the broader membership, the NEA maintains that it bases support for candidates primarily on the organization's interpretation of candidates' support for public education and educators. Others benefitting from NEA funding, according to the most recent filings, include Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, Amnesty International and AIDS Walk Washington. The NEA gave $65 million in its members' dues to left-liberal groups in 2005. If the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. BTW, didn't anyone tell you, we aren't supposed to use Wikipedia!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #107 October 15, 2007 Quote You extrapolate like a kindergartner(when it suits you) You need to do your homework better if you are to stay ahead of those kindergarteners.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #108 October 15, 2007 QuoteIf the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. QuoteNEA president Catherine Barrett said, "We are the biggest potential political striking force in this country, and we are determined to control the direction of education." "Those who rose highest in the public schools establishment and the NEA were those most strongly committed to secularism and statism," wrote Blumenfeld. Those two complementary philosophies fueled the vision of NEA leaders who sought an utopian world, freed from Biblical constraints and ruled by humanist politicians and taught by progressive educators. Parental rights and religious freedom would be swallowed up by the surpassing rights and rules of the greater community -- the controlled collective. - Samuel L. Blumenfeld, NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education (Phoenix, AZ: The Paradigm Company, 1985) Quote"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our Founding Fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It's up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well - by creating the international child of the future." --Professor Chester M. Pierce, M.D., Professor of Education and Psychiatry at Harvard Quote"The schools cannot allow parents to influence the kind of values-education their children receive in school; that is what is wrong with those who say there is a universal system of values. Our (humanistic) goals are incompatible with theirs. We must change their values." --Paul Haubner, specialist for the N.E.A.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #109 October 15, 2007 Ok so basically you want to destroy all those evil secularists.. and have your own version of Madrasas teaching the Bible as the word of god and nothing more.... Right....Welcome to the Christian Kabal of America Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #110 October 15, 2007 Quote... a child with spina bifida, or a battered woman seeking shelter. They are, however, needy. I think society should address their needs. Why? Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let voluntary contributions pay for them.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,114 #111 October 15, 2007 >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #112 October 15, 2007 Quote>Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either...Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #113 October 15, 2007 QuoteIf the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. This is like saying President Clinton's reduction of our armed forces proves the military industrial complex has no influence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #114 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #115 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. QuoteNEA president Catherine Barrett said, "We are the biggest potential political striking force in this country, and we are determined to control the direction of education." "Those who rose highest in the public schools establishment and the NEA were those most strongly committed to secularism and statism," wrote Blumenfeld. Those two complementary philosophies fueled the vision of NEA leaders who sought an utopian world, freed from Biblical constraints and ruled by humanist politicians and taught by progressive educators. Parental rights and religious freedom would be swallowed up by the surpassing rights and rules of the greater community -- the controlled collective. - Samuel L. Blumenfeld, NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education (Phoenix, AZ: The Paradigm Company, 1985) Quote"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our Founding Fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It's up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well - by creating the international child of the future." --Professor Chester M. Pierce, M.D., Professor of Education and Psychiatry at Harvard Quote"The schools cannot allow parents to influence the kind of values-education their children receive in school; that is what is wrong with those who say there is a universal system of values. Our (humanistic) goals are incompatible with theirs. We must change their values." --Paul Haubner, specialist for the N.E.A. Oh, I'm sure they'd like to have some influence, but your post is another red herring. Educational policy is not made by the NEA. It's made by federal, state and local governments. Right now a Bushite neo-con is in charge of the DoE.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #116 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then. I'd sooner pay for a troop's hostile fire pay than some idiot's fuck trophy. At least the people of the US get a honest day's work out of the troop.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #117 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote If the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. This is like saying President Clinton's reduction of our armed forces proves the military industrial complex has no influence. Thank you for making my point. POLICY is made by the government. Other forces try to influence policy, but the government makes the policy... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,114 #118 October 15, 2007 >For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... I didn't say you did! However, in the post I replied to, you said you should not have to pay to support something that is not the result of your actions. If that's true, then only supporters of a given action should have to pay for it - whether it's helping a little girl walk or launching a trillion dollar war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #119 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then. I'd sooner pay for a troop's hostile fire pay than some idiot's fuck trophy. At least the people of the US get a honest day's work out of the troop. Hmmm. So you should only have to pay for the things you approve of. Does that apply to others, or only to you?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #120 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote If the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. This is like saying President Clinton's reduction of our armed forces proves the military industrial complex has no influence. Thank you for making my point. POLICY is made by the government. Other forces try to influence policy, but the government makes the policy With the exception of "No Child Left Behind", the Department of Education has little (if anything) to do with determining curricula or educational standards. As an educator, I'd think you would know this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #121 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then. I'd sooner pay for a troop's hostile fire pay than some idiot's fuck trophy. At least the people of the US get a honest day's work out of the troop. Hmmm. So you should only have to pay for the things you approve of. Does that apply to others, or only to you? I did not say that. I merely indicated one expenditure was less offensive than the other. I'm not delusional enough to think that my displeasure will move the govt budget. I can express displeasure however.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Glitch 0 #122 October 15, 2007 QuoteYou will need to fix the K-12 educational system in the inner cities before that problem goes away While this would certainly help in breaking the cycle, what I think would help even more is institute mandatory birth control if you receive ANY public assistance; you want 'your' money, get in line and get your shot or no fucking $$$! Why is it that you need a license to catch a fish, drive a car, or be a ham operator, but ANYONE can procreate as long as they can figure out how to drop their knickers?Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #123 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteYou will need to fix the K-12 educational system in the inner cities before that problem goes away While this would certainly help in breaking the cycle, what I think would help even more is institute mandatory birth control if you receive ANY public assistance; you want 'your' money, get in line and get your shot or no fucking $$$! Why is it that you need a license to catch a fish, drive a car, or be a ham operator, but ANYONE can procreate as long as they can figure out how to drop their knickers? Fortunately there is this short document called The Constitution...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #124 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou will need to fix the K-12 educational system in the inner cities before that problem goes away While this would certainly help in breaking the cycle, what I think would help even more is institute mandatory birth control if you receive ANY public assistance; you want 'your' money, get in line and get your shot or no fucking $$$! Why is it that you need a license to catch a fish, drive a car, or be a ham operator, but ANYONE can procreate as long as they can figure out how to drop their knickers? Fortunately there is this short document called The Constitution... The Constitution says government handouts are unconditional? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #125 October 16, 2007 Quote Ok so basically you want to destroy all those evil secularists.. and have your own version of Madrasas teaching the Bible as the word of god and nothing more.... Right....Welcome to the Christian Kabal of America Where did I say OR advocate that, precisely? Got anything besides smears based on disagreement with YOUR ideology and arguments by hyperbole?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0 Go To Topic Listing
kallend 2,147 #103 October 15, 2007 QuoteI disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence.Quote Yes and we all know who runs the Department of Educaton. Margaret Spellings runs the DoE. Nominated by George W. Bush, confirmed by a GOP controlled Senate. Quote Take a wild guess as to what political ideology they embrace? From her own biography: Prior to her tenure as Education Secretary, Spellings served as Assistant to the President for Domestic Policy, where she helped create the No Child Left Behind Act and crafted policies on education, immigration, health care, labor, transportation, justice, housing, and other elements of the President's domestic agenda. Previously, Spellings worked for six years as Senior Advisor to Governor George W. Bush with responsibility for developing and implementing the Governor's education reforms and policies. From the White House and the Statehouse to the school board and college campus, Spellings has been involved with education policy at every level. So thanks for confirming my point. The DoE is firmly in the hands of the neo-cons.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites warpedskydiver 0 #104 October 15, 2007 You extrapolate like a kindergartner(when it suits you) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #105 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteNo. The point is that teachers unions have an obvious liberal leaning and they have a major influence over most of the education systems in this country. I disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence. From wikipedia: QuoteIn recent decades the NEA has greatly increased its visibility in party politics, endorsing almost exclusively Democratic Party candidates and contributing funds and other assistance to political campaigns. The NEA asserts itself "non-partisan", but critics point out that the NEA has endorsed and provided support for every Democratic Party presidential nominee from Jimmy Carter to John Kerry and has never endorsed any Republican or third party candidate for the nation's highest office. Based on required filings with the federal government, it is estimated that between 1990 and 2002 ninety percent of the NEA's substantial political contributions went to Democratic Party candidates. Although this has been questioned as being out of balance with the more diverse political views of the broader membership, the NEA maintains that it bases support for candidates primarily on the organization's interpretation of candidates' support for public education and educators. Others benefitting from NEA funding, according to the most recent filings, include Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, Amnesty International and AIDS Walk Washington. The NEA gave $65 million in its members' dues to left-liberal groups in 2005. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #106 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote No. The point is that teachers unions have an obvious liberal leaning and they have a major influence over most of the education systems in this country. I disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence. From wikipedia: Quote In recent decades the NEA has greatly increased its visibility in party politics, endorsing almost exclusively Democratic Party candidates and contributing funds and other assistance to political campaigns. The NEA asserts itself "non-partisan", but critics point out that the NEA has endorsed and provided support for every Democratic Party presidential nominee from Jimmy Carter to John Kerry and has never endorsed any Republican or third party candidate for the nation's highest office. Based on required filings with the federal government, it is estimated that between 1990 and 2002 ninety percent of the NEA's substantial political contributions went to Democratic Party candidates. Although this has been questioned as being out of balance with the more diverse political views of the broader membership, the NEA maintains that it bases support for candidates primarily on the organization's interpretation of candidates' support for public education and educators. Others benefitting from NEA funding, according to the most recent filings, include Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, Amnesty International and AIDS Walk Washington. The NEA gave $65 million in its members' dues to left-liberal groups in 2005. If the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. BTW, didn't anyone tell you, we aren't supposed to use Wikipedia!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #107 October 15, 2007 Quote You extrapolate like a kindergartner(when it suits you) You need to do your homework better if you are to stay ahead of those kindergarteners.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #108 October 15, 2007 QuoteIf the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. QuoteNEA president Catherine Barrett said, "We are the biggest potential political striking force in this country, and we are determined to control the direction of education." "Those who rose highest in the public schools establishment and the NEA were those most strongly committed to secularism and statism," wrote Blumenfeld. Those two complementary philosophies fueled the vision of NEA leaders who sought an utopian world, freed from Biblical constraints and ruled by humanist politicians and taught by progressive educators. Parental rights and religious freedom would be swallowed up by the surpassing rights and rules of the greater community -- the controlled collective. - Samuel L. Blumenfeld, NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education (Phoenix, AZ: The Paradigm Company, 1985) Quote"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our Founding Fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It's up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well - by creating the international child of the future." --Professor Chester M. Pierce, M.D., Professor of Education and Psychiatry at Harvard Quote"The schools cannot allow parents to influence the kind of values-education their children receive in school; that is what is wrong with those who say there is a universal system of values. Our (humanistic) goals are incompatible with theirs. We must change their values." --Paul Haubner, specialist for the N.E.A.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #109 October 15, 2007 Ok so basically you want to destroy all those evil secularists.. and have your own version of Madrasas teaching the Bible as the word of god and nothing more.... Right....Welcome to the Christian Kabal of America Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #110 October 15, 2007 Quote... a child with spina bifida, or a battered woman seeking shelter. They are, however, needy. I think society should address their needs. Why? Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let voluntary contributions pay for them.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,114 #111 October 15, 2007 >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #112 October 15, 2007 Quote>Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either...Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #113 October 15, 2007 QuoteIf the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. This is like saying President Clinton's reduction of our armed forces proves the military industrial complex has no influence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #114 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #115 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. QuoteNEA president Catherine Barrett said, "We are the biggest potential political striking force in this country, and we are determined to control the direction of education." "Those who rose highest in the public schools establishment and the NEA were those most strongly committed to secularism and statism," wrote Blumenfeld. Those two complementary philosophies fueled the vision of NEA leaders who sought an utopian world, freed from Biblical constraints and ruled by humanist politicians and taught by progressive educators. Parental rights and religious freedom would be swallowed up by the surpassing rights and rules of the greater community -- the controlled collective. - Samuel L. Blumenfeld, NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education (Phoenix, AZ: The Paradigm Company, 1985) Quote"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our Founding Fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It's up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well - by creating the international child of the future." --Professor Chester M. Pierce, M.D., Professor of Education and Psychiatry at Harvard Quote"The schools cannot allow parents to influence the kind of values-education their children receive in school; that is what is wrong with those who say there is a universal system of values. Our (humanistic) goals are incompatible with theirs. We must change their values." --Paul Haubner, specialist for the N.E.A. Oh, I'm sure they'd like to have some influence, but your post is another red herring. Educational policy is not made by the NEA. It's made by federal, state and local governments. Right now a Bushite neo-con is in charge of the DoE.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #116 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then. I'd sooner pay for a troop's hostile fire pay than some idiot's fuck trophy. At least the people of the US get a honest day's work out of the troop.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #117 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote If the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. This is like saying President Clinton's reduction of our armed forces proves the military industrial complex has no influence. Thank you for making my point. POLICY is made by the government. Other forces try to influence policy, but the government makes the policy... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 3,114 #118 October 15, 2007 >For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... I didn't say you did! However, in the post I replied to, you said you should not have to pay to support something that is not the result of your actions. If that's true, then only supporters of a given action should have to pay for it - whether it's helping a little girl walk or launching a trillion dollar war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #119 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then. I'd sooner pay for a troop's hostile fire pay than some idiot's fuck trophy. At least the people of the US get a honest day's work out of the troop. Hmmm. So you should only have to pay for the things you approve of. Does that apply to others, or only to you?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #120 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote If the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. This is like saying President Clinton's reduction of our armed forces proves the military industrial complex has no influence. Thank you for making my point. POLICY is made by the government. Other forces try to influence policy, but the government makes the policy With the exception of "No Child Left Behind", the Department of Education has little (if anything) to do with determining curricula or educational standards. As an educator, I'd think you would know this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ExAFO 0 #121 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then. I'd sooner pay for a troop's hostile fire pay than some idiot's fuck trophy. At least the people of the US get a honest day's work out of the troop. Hmmm. So you should only have to pay for the things you approve of. Does that apply to others, or only to you? I did not say that. I merely indicated one expenditure was less offensive than the other. I'm not delusional enough to think that my displeasure will move the govt budget. I can express displeasure however.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Glitch 0 #122 October 15, 2007 QuoteYou will need to fix the K-12 educational system in the inner cities before that problem goes away While this would certainly help in breaking the cycle, what I think would help even more is institute mandatory birth control if you receive ANY public assistance; you want 'your' money, get in line and get your shot or no fucking $$$! Why is it that you need a license to catch a fish, drive a car, or be a ham operator, but ANYONE can procreate as long as they can figure out how to drop their knickers?Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 2,147 #123 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteYou will need to fix the K-12 educational system in the inner cities before that problem goes away While this would certainly help in breaking the cycle, what I think would help even more is institute mandatory birth control if you receive ANY public assistance; you want 'your' money, get in line and get your shot or no fucking $$$! Why is it that you need a license to catch a fish, drive a car, or be a ham operator, but ANYONE can procreate as long as they can figure out how to drop their knickers? Fortunately there is this short document called The Constitution...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NCclimber 0 #124 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou will need to fix the K-12 educational system in the inner cities before that problem goes away While this would certainly help in breaking the cycle, what I think would help even more is institute mandatory birth control if you receive ANY public assistance; you want 'your' money, get in line and get your shot or no fucking $$$! Why is it that you need a license to catch a fish, drive a car, or be a ham operator, but ANYONE can procreate as long as they can figure out how to drop their knickers? Fortunately there is this short document called The Constitution... The Constitution says government handouts are unconditional? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #125 October 16, 2007 Quote Ok so basically you want to destroy all those evil secularists.. and have your own version of Madrasas teaching the Bible as the word of god and nothing more.... Right....Welcome to the Christian Kabal of America Where did I say OR advocate that, precisely? Got anything besides smears based on disagreement with YOUR ideology and arguments by hyperbole?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next Page 5 of 6 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
warpedskydiver 0 #104 October 15, 2007 You extrapolate like a kindergartner(when it suits you) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #105 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteNo. The point is that teachers unions have an obvious liberal leaning and they have a major influence over most of the education systems in this country. I disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence. From wikipedia: QuoteIn recent decades the NEA has greatly increased its visibility in party politics, endorsing almost exclusively Democratic Party candidates and contributing funds and other assistance to political campaigns. The NEA asserts itself "non-partisan", but critics point out that the NEA has endorsed and provided support for every Democratic Party presidential nominee from Jimmy Carter to John Kerry and has never endorsed any Republican or third party candidate for the nation's highest office. Based on required filings with the federal government, it is estimated that between 1990 and 2002 ninety percent of the NEA's substantial political contributions went to Democratic Party candidates. Although this has been questioned as being out of balance with the more diverse political views of the broader membership, the NEA maintains that it bases support for candidates primarily on the organization's interpretation of candidates' support for public education and educators. Others benefitting from NEA funding, according to the most recent filings, include Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, Amnesty International and AIDS Walk Washington. The NEA gave $65 million in its members' dues to left-liberal groups in 2005. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #106 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote No. The point is that teachers unions have an obvious liberal leaning and they have a major influence over most of the education systems in this country. I disagree about their influence. Educational policy comes from government (local, state, federal) and the unions have little influence. From wikipedia: Quote In recent decades the NEA has greatly increased its visibility in party politics, endorsing almost exclusively Democratic Party candidates and contributing funds and other assistance to political campaigns. The NEA asserts itself "non-partisan", but critics point out that the NEA has endorsed and provided support for every Democratic Party presidential nominee from Jimmy Carter to John Kerry and has never endorsed any Republican or third party candidate for the nation's highest office. Based on required filings with the federal government, it is estimated that between 1990 and 2002 ninety percent of the NEA's substantial political contributions went to Democratic Party candidates. Although this has been questioned as being out of balance with the more diverse political views of the broader membership, the NEA maintains that it bases support for candidates primarily on the organization's interpretation of candidates' support for public education and educators. Others benefitting from NEA funding, according to the most recent filings, include Jesse Jackson's Rainbow/PUSH Coalition, the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, Amnesty International and AIDS Walk Washington. The NEA gave $65 million in its members' dues to left-liberal groups in 2005. If the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. BTW, didn't anyone tell you, we aren't supposed to use Wikipedia!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #107 October 15, 2007 Quote You extrapolate like a kindergartner(when it suits you) You need to do your homework better if you are to stay ahead of those kindergarteners.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #108 October 15, 2007 QuoteIf the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. QuoteNEA president Catherine Barrett said, "We are the biggest potential political striking force in this country, and we are determined to control the direction of education." "Those who rose highest in the public schools establishment and the NEA were those most strongly committed to secularism and statism," wrote Blumenfeld. Those two complementary philosophies fueled the vision of NEA leaders who sought an utopian world, freed from Biblical constraints and ruled by humanist politicians and taught by progressive educators. Parental rights and religious freedom would be swallowed up by the surpassing rights and rules of the greater community -- the controlled collective. - Samuel L. Blumenfeld, NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education (Phoenix, AZ: The Paradigm Company, 1985) Quote"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our Founding Fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It's up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well - by creating the international child of the future." --Professor Chester M. Pierce, M.D., Professor of Education and Psychiatry at Harvard Quote"The schools cannot allow parents to influence the kind of values-education their children receive in school; that is what is wrong with those who say there is a universal system of values. Our (humanistic) goals are incompatible with theirs. We must change their values." --Paul Haubner, specialist for the N.E.A.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #109 October 15, 2007 Ok so basically you want to destroy all those evil secularists.. and have your own version of Madrasas teaching the Bible as the word of god and nothing more.... Right....Welcome to the Christian Kabal of America Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #110 October 15, 2007 Quote... a child with spina bifida, or a battered woman seeking shelter. They are, however, needy. I think society should address their needs. Why? Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let voluntary contributions pay for them.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #111 October 15, 2007 >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #112 October 15, 2007 Quote>Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either...Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #113 October 15, 2007 QuoteIf the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. This is like saying President Clinton's reduction of our armed forces proves the military industrial complex has no influence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #114 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #115 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteIf the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. QuoteNEA president Catherine Barrett said, "We are the biggest potential political striking force in this country, and we are determined to control the direction of education." "Those who rose highest in the public schools establishment and the NEA were those most strongly committed to secularism and statism," wrote Blumenfeld. Those two complementary philosophies fueled the vision of NEA leaders who sought an utopian world, freed from Biblical constraints and ruled by humanist politicians and taught by progressive educators. Parental rights and religious freedom would be swallowed up by the surpassing rights and rules of the greater community -- the controlled collective. - Samuel L. Blumenfeld, NEA: Trojan Horse in American Education (Phoenix, AZ: The Paradigm Company, 1985) Quote"Every child in America entering school at the age of five is mentally ill because he comes to school with certain allegiances to our Founding Fathers, toward our elected officials, toward his parents, toward a belief in a supernatural being, and toward the sovereignty of this nation as a separate entity. It's up to you as teachers to make all these sick children well - by creating the international child of the future." --Professor Chester M. Pierce, M.D., Professor of Education and Psychiatry at Harvard Quote"The schools cannot allow parents to influence the kind of values-education their children receive in school; that is what is wrong with those who say there is a universal system of values. Our (humanistic) goals are incompatible with theirs. We must change their values." --Paul Haubner, specialist for the N.E.A. Oh, I'm sure they'd like to have some influence, but your post is another red herring. Educational policy is not made by the NEA. It's made by federal, state and local governments. Right now a Bushite neo-con is in charge of the DoE.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #116 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then. I'd sooner pay for a troop's hostile fire pay than some idiot's fuck trophy. At least the people of the US get a honest day's work out of the troop.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #117 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote If the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. This is like saying President Clinton's reduction of our armed forces proves the military industrial complex has no influence. Thank you for making my point. POLICY is made by the government. Other forces try to influence policy, but the government makes the policy... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,114 #118 October 15, 2007 >For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... I didn't say you did! However, in the post I replied to, you said you should not have to pay to support something that is not the result of your actions. If that's true, then only supporters of a given action should have to pay for it - whether it's helping a little girl walk or launching a trillion dollar war. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #119 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then. I'd sooner pay for a troop's hostile fire pay than some idiot's fuck trophy. At least the people of the US get a honest day's work out of the troop. Hmmm. So you should only have to pay for the things you approve of. Does that apply to others, or only to you?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #120 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote If the NEA was as influential as you seem to think, we wouldn't have "No Child Left Behind". The NEA does NOT make educational policy. This is like saying President Clinton's reduction of our armed forces proves the military industrial complex has no influence. Thank you for making my point. POLICY is made by the government. Other forces try to influence policy, but the government makes the policy With the exception of "No Child Left Behind", the Department of Education has little (if anything) to do with determining curricula or educational standards. As an educator, I'd think you would know this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #121 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote >Their situations are not my fault nor the result of my actions. Why >should they pick my pocket? The Iraq war is not my fault nor is it the result of my actions. Why should they pick my pocket? Let war supporters pay for it. You and Kallend reading from the same playbook? For the record, I've never said I supported the war either... Well, that makes three of us who should not have to pay for it, then. I'd sooner pay for a troop's hostile fire pay than some idiot's fuck trophy. At least the people of the US get a honest day's work out of the troop. Hmmm. So you should only have to pay for the things you approve of. Does that apply to others, or only to you? I did not say that. I merely indicated one expenditure was less offensive than the other. I'm not delusional enough to think that my displeasure will move the govt budget. I can express displeasure however.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Glitch 0 #122 October 15, 2007 QuoteYou will need to fix the K-12 educational system in the inner cities before that problem goes away While this would certainly help in breaking the cycle, what I think would help even more is institute mandatory birth control if you receive ANY public assistance; you want 'your' money, get in line and get your shot or no fucking $$$! Why is it that you need a license to catch a fish, drive a car, or be a ham operator, but ANYONE can procreate as long as they can figure out how to drop their knickers?Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,147 #123 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteYou will need to fix the K-12 educational system in the inner cities before that problem goes away While this would certainly help in breaking the cycle, what I think would help even more is institute mandatory birth control if you receive ANY public assistance; you want 'your' money, get in line and get your shot or no fucking $$$! Why is it that you need a license to catch a fish, drive a car, or be a ham operator, but ANYONE can procreate as long as they can figure out how to drop their knickers? Fortunately there is this short document called The Constitution...... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #124 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteYou will need to fix the K-12 educational system in the inner cities before that problem goes away While this would certainly help in breaking the cycle, what I think would help even more is institute mandatory birth control if you receive ANY public assistance; you want 'your' money, get in line and get your shot or no fucking $$$! Why is it that you need a license to catch a fish, drive a car, or be a ham operator, but ANYONE can procreate as long as they can figure out how to drop their knickers? Fortunately there is this short document called The Constitution... The Constitution says government handouts are unconditional? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #125 October 16, 2007 Quote Ok so basically you want to destroy all those evil secularists.. and have your own version of Madrasas teaching the Bible as the word of god and nothing more.... Right....Welcome to the Christian Kabal of America Where did I say OR advocate that, precisely? Got anything besides smears based on disagreement with YOUR ideology and arguments by hyperbole?Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
