Welfare

[Amazon 7]

It never ceases to amaze me.......

The right begrudges a few hundred dollars of tax dollars that might go to some single mother.

The same people do not seem to begrudge the many billions of our tax dollars wasted and squanderd by the people in corporate fleecing of America..

Where is all that right wing moral outrage about the government to corporate transfer of TRUE wealth???

http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+Price+of+Citizenship:+Redefining+the+American+Welfare+State-a095829300

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

It never ceases to amaze me.......

The right begrudges a few hundred dollars of tax dollars that might go to some single mother.

The same people do not seem to begrudge the many billions of our tax dollars wasted and squanderd by the people in corporate fleecing of America..

Where is all that right wing moral outrage about the government to corporate transfer of TRUE wealth???

Seems to be the LEFT that was against Bush's tax reform that put money back into the poors' pockets... the same tax cut that generated record revenues.

The corporate handouts happen on BOTH sides of the aisle. Quite easy to see once you take off the blinders.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

Thank you for making my point.... no moral outrage from the right...

http://www.tompaine.com/articles/2006/02/27/grand_theft_baghdad.php




Here is where the reality is.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+Price+of+Citizenship:+Redefining+the+American+Welfare+State-a095829300

describes the progress of conservative attacks across all these diverse realms of public and private action. The features of this narrative, argues Katz, "are the discovery of a crisis of numbers and cost (rising rolls); the assignment of blame to morally suspect persons (the undeserving); the reduction of program size through controlling eligibility more than reducing benefits (reform); the measurement of achievement by fewer beneficiaries (success); and the failure to track the fate of those denied help (willful ignorance)" (p. 197). Linking the conservative assault on the welfare state to the globalization of business, the growing influence of the Sunbelt and evangelical Protestantism, and the activism of conservative think tanks,

[lawrocket 3]

The left wants money spent on their causes, and hates what the right spends it on. The right correctly accuses the left of being hypocritical.

The right wants money spent on their causes, and hates what the left spends it on. The left correctly accuses the right of being hypocritical.

Some of us, however, hate what both the right and the left spend money on. Some of us believe that government funding directed to special interests is bullshit. We are then accused by the left of being heartless and by the right of being pinko.

And when the right and the left both hate us, we'll know we're doign something correct. For the only thing that separates the Republicans and Democrats is priorities, not procedures.

Amazon wants to give away other people's money to persons and entities she deems worthy.

Right-wingers want to give away other peoples money to persons and entities they deem worthy.

Then people like me think there is no justification for giving away other people's money to other people, except in some circumstances where there is no winner or loser, like preservation of the air we breathe, the water we drink and the roads we drive.

But that's not fair because some starving 19 year old mother of 4 cannot afford to feed her kids. And it's not fair because Private Snuffy will be left unprotected and die in Trashcanistan of wherever the government sent him.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[The_Almighty 0]

very interesting

[lawrocket 3]

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the assignment of blame to morally suspect persons (the undeserving);

So, one of the things that the consrevatives do is assign blame to morally suspect persons?

Seems to me this thread is about assigning blame to morally suspect persons (Republicans). Pot, meet kettle.

I'm not saying it's any worse. I'm just saying it no better.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Amazon wants to give away other people's money to persons and entities she deems worthy.

Don't confuse "worthy" with "needy". There's nothing particularly worthy about a child with spina bifida, or a battered woman seeking shelter. They are, however, needy. I think society should address their needs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

I prefer to focus on the "Giving away other people's money part." THAT's where I have a problem.

How genuine is anybody's concern if they use other people's money (taken by force) to support it?

I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be convinced of the kindness of a person who is generous with funds forcibly taken from another, regardless of whether the person spends the funds on himself, herself or on others who are "needy."

I will be convinced of the generosity who spend their OWN money on others they find to be needy.

It's that simple. In my opinion, there is no moral highground in stealing from Peter to pay Paul. And my mind is no longer open on that subject. Ther emay only be a pragmatic necessity in limited circumstances.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

I prefer to focus on the "Giving away other people's money part." THAT's where I have a problem.

How genuine is anybody's concern if they use other people's money (taken by force) to support it?

I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be convinced of the kindness of a person who is generous with funds forcibly taken from another, regardless of whether the person spends the funds on himself, herself or on others who are "needy."

I will be convinced of the generosity who spend their OWN money on others they find to be needy.

It's that simple. In my opinion, there is no moral highground in stealing from Peter to pay Paul. And my mind is no longer open on that subject. Ther emay only be a pragmatic necessity in limited circumstances.

Do you have a problem forcibly taking my money to support a war that I have opposed from day 1? Or is THAT fine with you?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[lawrocket 3]

Short answer. Yes. I absolutely have a problem with it.

Longer answer - I couldn't care less whether or not you supported it or did not, or whether I supported it or did not (I did not, by the way). It is outside of the equation whether you or I agree or disagree with the morality of the purpose.

I find it crap that money can be forcibly taken from the population to pay for the whim of anyone, i.e. a President.

I do NOT have a problem with providing for the common defense, i.e., prevention of invasion. The Iraq war does not meet that definition. It was a failed social experiment (like Welfare. 40 years of it and we're no better off).

Examples of why spending other people's money brings no harm to the people spending it.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Short answer. Yes. I absolutely have a problem with it.

Longer answer - I couldn't care less whether or not you supported it or did not, or whether I supported it or did not (I did not, by the way). It is outside of the equation whether you or I agree or disagree with the morality of the purpose.

I find it crap that money can be forcibly taken from the population to pay for the whim of anyone, i.e. a President.

I do NOT have a problem with providing for the common defense, i.e., prevention of invasion. The Iraq war does not meet that definition. It was a failed social experiment (like Welfare. 40 years of it and we're no better off).

Examples of why spending other people's money brings no harm to the people spending it.

Well, I guess you and I have a basic disagreement, because I think that caring for its TRULY needy members is a function of the government of a civilized state.

We relied on philanthropy during the great depression. Didn't work. I guess you are too young to know.

I have paid something like $750,000 (2007 dollars) in federal taxes alone over the last 30 years, and I've not asked anyone to pay for me or my family. I have no problem AT ALL with my taxes going to help the truly needy.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

I prefer to focus on the "Giving away other people's money part." THAT's where I have a problem.

How genuine is anybody's concern if they use other people's money (taken by force) to support it?

I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever be convinced of the kindness of a person who is generous with funds forcibly taken from another, regardless of whether the person spends the funds on himself, herself or on others who are "needy."

I will be convinced of the generosity who spend their OWN money on others they find to be needy.

It's that simple. In my opinion, there is no moral highground in stealing from Peter to pay Paul. And my mind is no longer open on that subject. Ther emay only be a pragmatic necessity in limited circumstances.

Do you have a problem forcibly taking my money to support a war that I have opposed from day 1? Or is THAT fine with you?

Yep

(worthless answer to a worthless question)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Short answer. Yes. I absolutely have a problem with it.

Longer answer - I couldn't care less whether or not you supported it or did not, or whether I supported it or did not (I did not, by the way). It is outside of the equation whether you or I agree or disagree with the morality of the purpose.

I find it crap that money can be forcibly taken from the population to pay for the whim of anyone, i.e. a President.

I do NOT have a problem with providing for the common defense, i.e., prevention of invasion. The Iraq war does not meet that definition. It was a failed social experiment (like Welfare. 40 years of it and we're no better off).

Examples of why spending other people's money brings no harm to the people spending it.

Well, I guess you and I have a basic disagreement, because I think that caring for its TRULY needy members is a function of the government of a civilized state.

We relied on philanthropy during the great depression. Didn't work. I guess you are too young to know.

I have paid something like $750,000 (2007 dollars) in federal taxes alone over the last 30 years, and I've not asked anyone to pay for me or my family. I have no problem AT ALL with my taxes going to help the truly needy.

Nor do most people but, you know dam well that is not where it ends. You bring out the most extreem examples to TRY and make your point. You can do better than that

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 2,146]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Short answer. Yes. I absolutely have a problem with it.

Longer answer - I couldn't care less whether or not you supported it or did not, or whether I supported it or did not (I did not, by the way). It is outside of the equation whether you or I agree or disagree with the morality of the purpose.

I find it crap that money can be forcibly taken from the population to pay for the whim of anyone, i.e. a President.

I do NOT have a problem with providing for the common defense, i.e., prevention of invasion. The Iraq war does not meet that definition. It was a failed social experiment (like Welfare. 40 years of it and we're no better off).

Examples of why spending other people's money brings no harm to the people spending it.

Well, I guess you and I have a basic disagreement, because I think that caring for its TRULY needy members is a function of the government of a civilized state.

We relied on philanthropy during the great depression. Didn't work. I guess you are too young to know.

I have paid something like $750,000 (2007 dollars) in federal taxes alone over the last 30 years, and I've not asked anyone to pay for me or my family. I have no problem AT ALL with my taxes going to help the truly needy.

Nor do most people but, you know dam well that is not where it ends. You bring out the most extreem examples to TRY and make your point. You can do better than that

I agree, most people don't. It's just you extreme right wingers that would prefer to see people starving rather than pay taxes.

I mean, you don't even want to pay for the war you started. You just borrow and borrow from your children and grandchildren. How many $Trillion since January 2001?

Greed - the legacy of Reagan/Bush.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

Quote

Nor do most people but, you know dam well that is not where it ends. You bring out the most extreem examples to TRY and make your point. You can do better than that

I truely got my answer.. most of you in the right wing would allow for starvation of the needy if it meant a new weapons system for the greedy.

So much for all their blathering about being a christian country....that we hear from the right wingers here.

I have always believed that a society is judged by how it treats its least fortunate citizens.

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Short answer. Yes. I absolutely have a problem with it.

Longer answer - I couldn't care less whether or not you supported it or did not, or whether I supported it or did not (I did not, by the way). It is outside of the equation whether you or I agree or disagree with the morality of the purpose.

I find it crap that money can be forcibly taken from the population to pay for the whim of anyone, i.e. a President.

I do NOT have a problem with providing for the common defense, i.e., prevention of invasion. The Iraq war does not meet that definition. It was a failed social experiment (like Welfare. 40 years of it and we're no better off).

Examples of why spending other people's money brings no harm to the people spending it.

Well, I guess you and I have a basic disagreement, because I think that caring for its TRULY needy members is a function of the government of a civilized state.

We relied on philanthropy during the great depression. Didn't work. I guess you are too young to know.

I have paid something like $750,000 (2007 dollars) in federal taxes alone over the last 30 years, and I've not asked anyone to pay for me or my family. I have no problem AT ALL with my taxes going to help the truly needy.

Nor do most people but, you know dam well that is not where it ends. You bring out the most extreem examples to TRY and make your point. You can do better than that

I agree, most people don't. It's just you extreme right wingers that would prefer to see people starving rather than pay taxes.

I mean, you don't even want to pay for the war you started. You just borrow and borrow from your children and grandchildren. How many $Trillion since January 2001?

Greed - the legacy of Reagan/Bush.

Well, your post started out with some good sense and then it went to shit

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Nor do most people but, you know dam well that is not where it ends. You bring out the most extreem examples to TRY and make your point. You can do better than that

I truely got my answer.. most of you in the right wing would allow for starvation of the needy if it meant a new weapons system for the greedy.

So much for all their blathering about being a christian country....that we hear from the right wingers here.

I have always believed that a society is judged by how it treats its least fortunate citizens.

...I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24.

You have made it so that is there no way to ever take you seriously ever again. So I will enjoy the show you put forth

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

So tell us all your secret... now DID you get that mirror there.

I sure do hope a lot of you who pontificate about paying SOOOO much in taxes.. never need the social net that may or may not catch you... if you ever need it.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Here is a junk email I received, the general idea of this letter has some merit to it.

Please read and decide for yourself if some of this isn't true.

Quote

This should make everyone think, be you Democrat, Republican or
Independent.

From a California school teacher - - -"As you listen to the news about
the student protests over illegal immigration, there are some things
that you should be aware of:

I am in charge of the English-as-a-second-language department at a
large southern California high school which is designated a Title 1
school, meaning that its students average lower socioeconomic and
income levels.

Most of the schools you are hearing about, South Gate High, Bell
Gardens , Huntington Park , etc., where these students are protesting,
are also Title 1 schools.

Title 1 schools are on the free breakfast and free lunch program. When
I say free breakfast, I'm not talking a glass of milk and roll -- but
a full breakfast and cereal bar with fruits and juices that would make
a Marriott proud. The waste of this food is monumental, with trays and
trays of it being dumped in the trash uneaten. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT
WORK)

I estimate that well over 50% of these students are obese or at least
moderately overweight. About 75% or more DO have cell phones. The
school also provides day care centers for the unwed teenage pregnant
girls (some as young as 13) so they can attend class without the
inconvenience of having to arrange for babysitters or having family
watch their kids. (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I was ordered to spend $700,000 on my department or risk losing
funding for the upcoming year even though there was little need for
anything; my budget was already substantial... I ended up buying new
computers for the computer learning center, half of which, one month
later, have been carved with graffiti by the appreciative students who
obviously feel humbled and grateful to have a free education in
America . (OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK)

I have had to intervene several times for young and substitute
teachers whose classes consist of many illegal immigrant students here
in the country less then 3 months who raised so much hell with the
female teachers, calling them "Putas" whores and throwing things that
the teachers were in tears.

Free medical, free education, free food, day care etc., etc., etc. Is
it any wonder they feel entitled to not only be in this country but to
demand rights, privileges and entitlements?

To those who want to point out how much these illegal immigrants
contribute to our society because they LIKE their gardener and
housekeeper and they like to pay less for tomatoes: spend some time in
the real world of illegal immigration and see the TRUE costs.

Higher insurance, medical facilities closing, higher medical costs,
more crime, lower standards of education in our schools, overcrowding,
new diseases etc., etc, etc. For me, I'll pay more for tomatoes.

We need to wake up. The guest worker program will be a disaster
because we won't have the guts to enforce it. Does anyone in their
right mind really think they will voluntarily leave and return?

There are many hardworking Hispanic/American citizens that contribute
to our country and many that I consider my true friends. We should
encourage and accept those Hispanics who have done it the right and
legal way.

It does, however, have everything to do with culture: A third-world
culture that does not value education, that accepts children getting
pregnant and dropping out of school by 15 and that refuses to
assimilate, and an American culture that has become so weak and
worried about "politically correct" that we don't have the will to do
anything about it.

If this makes your blood boil, as it did mine, forward this to
everyone you know.

CHEAP LABOR? Isn't that what the whole immigration issue is about?

Business doesn't want to pay a decent wage.

Consumers don't want expensive produce.

Government will tell you Americans don't want the jobs.

But the bottom line is cheap labor. The phrase "cheap labor" is a
myth, a farce, and a lie. There is no such thing as "cheap labor."

Take, for example, an illegal alien with a wife and five children. He
takes a job for $5.00 or $6.00/hour. At that wage, with six
dependents, he pays no income tax, yet at the end of the year, if he
files an Income Tax Return, he gets an "earned income credit" of up to
$3,200 free.

He qualifies for Section 8 housing and subsidized rent.

He qualifies for food stamps.

He qualifies for free (no deductible, no co-pay) health care.

His children get free breakfasts and lunches at school.

He requires bilingual teachers and books.

He qualifies for relief from high energy bills.

If they are or become, aged, blind or disabled, they qualify for
SSI.Once qualified for SSI they can qualify for Medicare. All of this
is at (our) taxpayer's expense.

He doesn't worry about car insurance, life insurance, or homeowners
insurance.

Taxpayers provide Spanish language signs, bulletins and printed material.

He and his family receive the equivalent of $20.00 to $30.00/hour in
benefits.

Working Americans are lucky to have $5.00 or $6.00/hour left after
paying their bills and his.

The American taxpayers also pay for increased crime, graffiti and
trash clean-up.

Cheap labor? YEAH RIGHT! Wake up people THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS WE
SHOULD BE ADDRESSING TO THE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATES FOR EITHER
PARTY. AND WHEN THEY LIE TO US AND DON'T DO AS THEY SAY, WE SHOULD
REPLACE THEM AT ONCE!'

[rushmc 23]

Oh the entertainment of it all

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[warpedskydiver 0]

Well, I guess you and I have a basic disagreement, because I think that caring for its TRULY needy members is a function of the government of a civilized state.

We relied on philanthropy during the great depression. Didn't work. I guess you are too young to know.

I have paid something like $750,000 (2007 dollars) in federal taxes alone over the last 30 years, and I've not asked anyone to pay for me or my family. I have no problem AT ALL with my taxes going to help the truly needy.

Quote

John I would say there is a very high probability that most of that $750,000 you paid in taxes was wasted in several way.

Graft and inefficiency in government, waste on programs that are just plain stupid or managed so poorly that most all of the programs budget goes to administrative costs instead of reaching the ones it is designed to serve.

I would also say the probability is even higher that most social welfare programs are rife with corruption and fraught with welfare cheats who have become very skilled at defrauding the system and in fact they survive in a culture where they coach each other on how do cheat the system most effectively.

• Quote

[kallend 2,146]

What does the improper action of illegal aliens have to do with the topic of supplying a minimum level of proper care for citizens and legal residents?

Besides, you admitted the email was junk.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

I still want to know how you got your mirror into place so you could see it.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

I still want to know how you got your mirror into place so you could see it.

"My"mirror, is what I use to keep myself humbel and not take myself too seriously. It (excuse me, sorry) It also help me recognise crap. With that in mind I havd decided thay you must write for the Jay Lenos of the world and you come here with completetly out of this world comments to get ideas. Now that I understand that I am enjoying you posts to no end... I love being entertained!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Amazon 7]

Quote

My"mirror, is what I use to keep myself humbel and not take myself too seriously

How about the lighting.. a mirror requires lighting to see the reflection....