mnealtx 0 #76 October 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteTheorize all you want. The US has a higher per-capita incidence of school shootings than other western nations. The US has a higher number of guns per capita than other western nations. Coincidence? I think not. Sort of like blaming silverware for obesity, don't you think? No. You don't need silverware to pig out at McDonalds. You do need a gun to go on a shooting spree. Nice dodge - prove that McD's caused the people to eat the food and you'll have something comparable to your assertions that it's all the fault of the tool used.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bch7773 0 #77 October 17, 2007 Quote Do police stations get shot up? How about gun shows? Target ranges? Nope. Let's say you want to kill a lot of people with a minimum of problems. You look for a place where people are unprotected because firearms aren't allowed anywhere near them and a nice concentration of easy pickings. Oh, schools! Yes. Guns aren't allowed on schools. They won't have any protection. Let's shoot them up! The only protection being offered to these kids is taking their protections away. What a shame. i couldn't have said it better myself. the OP should go and read this several times MB 3528, RB 1182 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #78 October 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteTheorize all you want. The US has a higher per-capita incidence of school shootings than other western nations. The US has a higher number of guns per capita than other western nations. Coincidence? I think not. Sort of like blaming silverware for obesity, don't you think? No. You don't need silverware to pig out at McDonalds. You do need a gun to go on a shooting spree. Nice dodge - prove that McD's caused the people to eat the food and you'll have something comparable to your assertions that it's all the fault of the tool used. OK, Your first analogy failed. Keep trying. You STILL need a gun to go on shooting spree. Sorry, there's just no way around that.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #79 October 17, 2007 Quote*** Do police stations get shot up? How about gun shows? Target ranges? Nope. . In 1998 the owner of the Glenwood Gun Shop and Range (3 miles from my home) and his son were shot dead by an intruder in their store during an armed robbery. Guns are an attractive target for theft according to the US Dept. of Justice. As an aside, I see that over a 4 year period that store had sold guns (to "law abiding citizens") that subsequently turned up in 366 crimes, according to the IL state police.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #80 October 17, 2007 QuoteYou STILL need a gun to go on shooting spree. You sure do. But is the Shooting Spree the goal or is Killing/Harming people the goal? You dont need a gun to mix up a little fertilizer and kerosene. You dont need a Gun to say Drive a Bus through a crowd or building. There are many other ways to achieve the goal. Does removing the gun solve the problem? The analogy is valid. The GUN is not What caused the action is was simply the means though which the action was done. There are and always will be other means. Same as a Fat person blames McDonalds. MickyD`s may have been the what they choose to get them Fat but there were many other options available. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #81 October 17, 2007 QuoteQuote*** Do police stations get shot up? How about gun shows? Target ranges? Nope. . In 1998 the owner of the Glenwood Gun Shop and Range (3 miles from my home) and his son were shot dead by an intruder in their store during an armed robbery. Guns are an attractive target for theft according to the US Dept. of Justice. As an aside, I see that over a 4 year period that store had sold guns (to "law abiding citizens") that subsequently turned up in 366 crimes, according to the IL state police. Those "law abiding citizens" were most likely criminals making a 'straw purchase' for another criminal. They are trying to address this issue currently in several states. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #82 October 17, 2007 QuoteNice dodge - prove that McD's caused the people to eat the food and you'll have something comparable to your assertions that it's all the fault of the tool used. I never said it is the fault of the tool used. The more you make something available, the more it will also be misused. McDonalds is one example. I don't think McDonalds is to blame, but it is clear that a rise in the availability of fast food has coincided with the average american getting nice and fat. I think most people agree that there is a correlation between the two. The US has a higher "availability rate" of guns and also a higher incidence rate of school shootings. Doesn't mean I blame the guns, does mean that there is a likely correlation. The thread title asks if the "school massacres" are a price that just has to be paid. I'll say again, that in my opinion that is a price to be paid for the "sacred" right to bear arms. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #83 October 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote*** Do police stations get shot up? How about gun shows? Target ranges? Nope. . In 1998 the owner of the Glenwood Gun Shop and Range (3 miles from my home) and his son were shot dead by an intruder in their store during an armed robbery. Guns are an attractive target for theft according to the US Dept. of Justice. As an aside, I see that over a 4 year period that store had sold guns (to "law abiding citizens") that subsequently turned up in 366 crimes, according to the IL state police. Those "law abiding citizens" were most likely criminals making a 'straw purchase' for another criminal. They are trying to address this issue currently in several states. Criminals can masquerade as "law abiding citizens" to buy guns? Oh the humanity! Say it ain't so.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #84 October 17, 2007 QuoteYou sure do. But is the Shooting Spree the goal or is Killing/Harming people the goal? You dont need a gun to mix up a little fertilizer and kerosene. You dont need a Gun to say Drive a Bus through a crowd or building. There are many other ways to achieve the goal. But you know what the funny thing is? In the rest of the Western World, where guns are not as prevelant as in the US, there doesn't seem to be a higher incidence of busses driving through schools, or schools being blown up by bombs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #85 October 17, 2007 Quote there doesn't seem to be a higher incidence of busses driving through schools, or schools being blown up by bombs. That is great to hear. I am glad that suicide Bombers don’t really exist and that there are never explosions and bombs set off in public places in other countries. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #86 October 17, 2007 QuoteThat is great to hear. I am glad that suicide Bombers don’t really exist and that there are never explosions and bombs set off in public places in other countries. Ahh, in your hasty reading you must have missed the first part of that sentence. It couldn't possibly be that you are only quoting partial text on purpose? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #87 October 17, 2007 QuoteYou STILL need a gun to go on shooting spree. You've obviously not hung around the packing floor on a rainy day. Buckets of bands don't just spontaneously empty themselves across the room. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #88 October 17, 2007 Quote McDonalds is one example. I don't think McDonalds is to blame, but it is clear that a rise in the availability of fast food has coincided with the average american getting nice and fat. I think most people agree that there is a correlation between the two. you have the causation backwards. McDonalds grew to meet demand. It did not force people to like fast food. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #89 October 17, 2007 QuoteQuote*** Do police stations get shot up? How about gun shows? Target ranges? Nope. . In 1998 the owner of the Glenwood Gun Shop and Range (3 miles from my home) and his son were shot dead by an intruder in their store during an armed robbery. Guns are an attractive target for theft according to the US Dept. of Justice. As an aside, I see that over a 4 year period that store had sold guns (to "law abiding citizens") that subsequently turned up in 366 crimes, according to the IL state police. People do sometimes go to police stations, ranges, and gun stores. Usually it's planned suicide. That you can identify an event 9 years ago doesn't change the fact that armed zones get less trouble than unarmed zones. As to the second point, how many guns did that store sell in this time? Guns are tracked back to a small number of stores because like everything else, a small number of stores make a majority of the sales. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #90 October 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote*** Do police stations get shot up? How about gun shows? Target ranges? Nope. . In 1998 the owner of the Glenwood Gun Shop and Range (3 miles from my home) and his son were shot dead by an intruder in their store during an armed robbery. Guns are an attractive target for theft according to the US Dept. of Justice. As an aside, I see that over a 4 year period that store had sold guns (to "law abiding citizens") that subsequently turned up in 366 crimes, according to the IL state police. People do sometimes go to police stations, ranges, and gun stores. Usually it's planned suicide. That you can identify an event 9 years ago doesn't change the fact that armed zones get less trouble than unarmed zones. Only one example was needed to prove his assertion false, and I gave one. It happened close to my home so I remember it well. I'd suspect that a search would come up with other instances.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #91 October 17, 2007 Dr. Kallend, you still have not stated a case for depriving the entire US of their Constitutionally-guaranteed right to bear arms because of the actions of criminals. If you dislike our laws, perhaps the UK's laws are more to your liking? Either repeal the 2nd Amendment, or keep your hands off law-abiding persons' rights.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #92 October 17, 2007 Oh just quit with the "law-abiding" bs. its meaningless.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #93 October 17, 2007 QuoteOh just quit with the "law-abiding" bs. its meaningless. I own a gun (multiple ones, actually). I abide by all applicable laws. Ergo, I am "law-abiding." Eat me.Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #94 October 17, 2007 No thanks. you probably taste bitter. Everyone is law abiding till they break a law. Hence why its meaninglessNever try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ExAFO 0 #95 October 17, 2007 Quote Everyone is law abiding till they break a law. Hence why its meaningless So we're into Minority Report territory? The Dept. of Pre-Crime? People like you scare me. Teach me more of your Newspeak? If you're the victim of a crime, you'll change your tune. I was, and I did. Which number do you want to save you: 911 or .357?Illinois needs a CCW Law. NOW. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #96 October 18, 2007 QuoteNo thanks. you probably taste bitter. Everyone is law abiding till they break a law. Hence why its meaningless However, not everyone is 'law abiding' when they first come into possession of a gun. They may already be ineligible due to felonies before they're 21 (age to buy handguns), or they may commit a crime to obtain the weapon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #97 October 18, 2007 Quote Dr. Kallend, you still have not stated a case for depriving the entire US of their Constitutionally-guaranteed right to bear arms because of the actions of criminals. I wasn't trying to - that's why. Simply showing that the assertion made by lawrocket is, in fact, wrong.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #98 October 18, 2007 QuoteQuote Everyone is law abiding till they break a law. Hence why its meaningless So we're into Minority Report territory? The Dept. of Pre-Crime? People like you scare me. Teach me more of your Newspeak? If you're the victim of a crime, you'll change your tune. I was, and I did. Which number do you want to save you: 911 or .357? 911 wouldnt work here anyway. And i dont live somewhere i need a gun. If i lived in the US i might a) feel unsafe and b) feel that a gun is necessary, and if that was the case i would buy one. I don't and i don't. My point is just that the more self righteous pro gun people here wheel out the "law abiding" thing all the time and it means nothing due to the reasons already stated. With these incidents the people are generally law abiding till they start shooting up a school. Sorry i scare you. Seems you are easily spooked.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #99 October 18, 2007 Quote With these incidents the people are generally law abiding till they start shooting up a school. Sorry i scare you. Seems you are easily spooked. Huh? With those under 21 not allowed to own handguns, how are they law abiding? Sorry your mind is closed on the subject. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stumpy 284 #100 October 18, 2007 Ah - so all the guns they had were purchased illegally ? hadn't realised.Never try to eat more than you can lift Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
