Zipp0 1 #101 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote The rich are getting richer and the poor getting poorer Wow!! You mean that some people are actually smarter than others?? I never would have guessed. Some people actually make good decisions that pay off while others make poor decisions?? I am Shocked. Explain then how executives can destroy a company and still earn huge bonuses, and then parachute out just after selling their stock options for millions. It seems that some can make poor, costly decisions and still profit nicely. Have a look at Arbusto Energy. Bush's daddy's buddy invested $1 million in that shithole when the company was worth $400,000. Nice, eh? Then in 1990 Bush sold his shares in the company (now Harken Energy) and a week later the company reported a loss of $23 million. Ah yes, class warfare and jelousy. You now have been full indoctrinated. (that is of course if you were "ever" and conservative.) Class warfare? My household is top 20% income-wise, so who exactly am I jealous of? Billionaires? I don't think so. Still waiting for the explanation. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #102 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteInconvenient, maybe. Inconvenient? How about the tax is putting a lot of family run business to close there doors because they cannot afford it. Is that fair? How many? Got any factual data to support that claim? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #103 October 15, 2007 Quote Ah yes, class warfare and jelousy. You now have been full indoctrinated. (that is of course if you were "ever" and conservative.) Class warfare? My household is top 20% income-wise, so who exactly am I jealous of? Billionaires? I don't think so. Still waiting for the explanation.Only in the top 20%? Sucks to be you.An explanation would be interesting, but I'm sure he'll not give one.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #104 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote So If I go out and Earn $1 Million, Pay all the taxes on that money at the time I earn it. Shouldn’t it be mine to do with as I please? I earned it. I paid the taxes on it. Just because I give it to someone else, Why should it be taxed again? Every dollar in circulation is taxed over and over and over again as it circulates within the economy. Your argument is quite illogical. Nice job on using a tangential (but basically irrelevant) concept to discount his point. Illogical. His point is invalid. That's why inheritance taxes exist. Your attempt at nitpicking is invalid too, as usual. What is the justification of tax-free gifts, up to $10,000.00? Beats me. Next question: What is the major difference between inheritance taxes and sales taxes? I ask because you seem to saying all taxed transfers should be treated equally. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #105 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote So If I go out and Earn $1 Million, Pay all the taxes on that money at the time I earn it. Shouldn’t it be mine to do with as I please? I earned it. I paid the taxes on it. Just because I give it to someone else, Why should it be taxed again? Every dollar in circulation is taxed over and over and over again as it circulates within the economy. Your argument is quite illogical. Nice job on using a tangential (but basically irrelevant) concept to discount his point. Illogical. His point is invalid. That's why inheritance taxes exist. Your attempt at nitpicking is invalid too, as usual. What is the justification of tax-free gifts, up to $10,000.00? Beats me. Next question: What is the major difference between inheritance taxes and sales taxes? I ask because you seem to saying all taxed transfers should be treated equally. No, I have not said that. This started out when I disputed that inheritance tax constituted double taxation. I pointed out that it is no different from other taxes (sales, income) that are incurred whenever money cycles through the system from one party to another and that if inheritance taxes are double taxation, so are the others. IF we are going to have an inheritance tax, IMO it should apply equally to all inheritance regardless of the form it takes. I don't think farms or family businesses should be exempt from supporting the needs of the country.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #106 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Ah yes, class warfare and jelousy. You now have been full indoctrinated. (that is of course if you were "ever" and conservative.) Class warfare? My household is top 20% income-wise, so who exactly am I jealous of? Billionaires? I don't think so. Still waiting for the explanation. Only in the top 20%? Sucks to be you.Well, the top 20% includes the top 1%, so maybe I was just being vague. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #107 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Ah yes, class warfare and jelousy. You now have been full indoctrinated. (that is of course if you were "ever" and conservative.) Class warfare? My household is top 20% income-wise, so who exactly am I jealous of? Billionaires? I don't think so. Still waiting for the explanation. Only in the top 20%? Sucks to be you. Well, the top 20% includes the top 1%, so maybe I was just being vague.OK, welcome to the club... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #108 October 15, 2007 QuoteNo, I have not said that. This started out when I disputed that inheritance tax constituted double taxation. I pointed out that it is no different from other taxes (sales, income) that are incurred whenever money cycles through the system from one party to another and that if inheritance taxes are double taxation, so are the others. IF we are going to have an inheritance tax, IMO it should apply equally to all inheritance regardless of the form it takes. I don't think farms or family businesses should be exempt from supporting the needs of the country. Fair enough. IMO inheritance taxes should be be progressive, with a large amount being exempt, i.e. $1million, and a reasonable limit on the maximum tax rate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #109 October 15, 2007 Quote IMO inheritance taxes should be be progressive, with a large amount being exempt, i.e. $1million, and a reasonable limit on the maximum tax rate. The current exemption is $2million.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #110 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuote IMO inheritance taxes should be be progressive, with a large amount being exempt, i.e. $1million, and a reasonable limit on the maximum tax rate. The current exemption is $2million. Thanks for the info. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #111 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuote Why should inheriting a valuable farm or business be treated any differently from inheriting the same value in stocks, antiques, or cash? Because equities and cash can easily be divided up, while a farm or business cannot. They're not nearly as liquid. I gave some illustrations. Inconvenient, maybe. But what exactly does that have to do with paying your fair share to govern the country? Why should you pay less JUST because of your parents' choice of business? And you only have to pay anything at all if the farm is worth more than $2Million. So you tell me sir. Who is the arbiter of what is fair.. You and other fiscal socialists? If not you then who??? And more than $2Million is just ? My dad bought his land for $600 an acre. Today it is worth over $4500/acre. Now, he cant sell it because he would have capital gains on it. If he wills it to the children can they afford to pay the $XXX in taxes to keep it? What if the child has been working with his dad for 20 years and lived off the farm too. Dad us a poor planner? It is set up to take money away from someone who has worked very hard for it and let the gov decide where it is to go. Nothing fair about it all"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #112 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote Why should inheriting a valuable farm or business be treated any differently from inheriting the same value in stocks, antiques, or cash? Because equities and cash can easily be divided up, while a farm or business cannot. They're not nearly as liquid. I gave some illustrations. Inconvenient, maybe. But what exactly does that have to do with paying your fair share to govern the country? Why should you pay less JUST because of your parents' choice of business? And you only have to pay anything at all if the farm is worth more than $2Million. So you tell me sir. Who is the arbiter of what is fair.. You and other fiscal socialists? If not you then who??? And more than $2Million is just ? My dad bought his land for $600 an acre. Today it is worth over $4500/acre. Now, he cant sell it because he would have capital gains on it. If he wills it to the children can they afford to pay the $XXX in taxes to keep it? What if the child has been working with his dad for 20 years and lived off the farm too. Dad us a poor planner? It is set up to take money away from someone who has worked very hard for it and let the gov decide where it is to go. Nothing fair about it all It's not all about YOU. Why should your family not pay taxes on their inheritance or capital gains while other families have to pay on theirs? Explain how THAT would be fair. Consider yourselves lucky that your family land has appreciated in value, and don't whine about it. Would you prefer it had lost value?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 23 #113 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Why should inheriting a valuable farm or business be treated any differently from inheriting the same value in stocks, antiques, or cash? Because equities and cash can easily be divided up, while a farm or business cannot. They're not nearly as liquid. I gave some illustrations. Inconvenient, maybe. But what exactly does that have to do with paying your fair share to govern the country? Why should you pay less JUST because of your parents' choice of business? And you only have to pay anything at all if the farm is worth more than $2Million. So you tell me sir. Who is the arbiter of what is fair.. You and other fiscal socialists? If not you then who??? And more than $2Million is just ? My dad bought his land for $600 an acre. Today it is worth over $4500/acre. Now, he cant sell it because he would have capital gains on it. If he wills it to the children can they afford to pay the $XXX in taxes to keep it? What if the child has been working with his dad for 20 years and lived off the farm too. Dad us a poor planner? It is set up to take money away from someone who has worked very hard for it and let the gov decide where it is to go. Nothing fair about it all It's not all about YOU. Why should your family not pay taxes on their inheritance or capital gains while other families have to pay on theirs? Explain how THAT would be fair. Consider yourselves lucky that your family land has appreciated in value, and don't whine about it. Would you prefer it had lost value? Dam kallend, where in hell did you get any of this??? where did i say some should some shouldnt? Nobody should have to IMO. and who is whining huh? I cant give you an example without spewing something out with some major distortions of the context. "America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rookie120 0 #114 October 15, 2007 QuoteHow many? Got any factual data to support that claim? No I don't. Just the 3 that I have seen in person from people I know. I am sure they are not the only ones. Just because I don't have a detailed graph to show doesn't mean it does not happen.If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #115 October 15, 2007 QuoteWhat if the child has been working with his dad for 20 years and lived off the farm too. Dad us a poor planner? It is set up to take money away from someone who has worked very hard for it and let the gov decide where it is to go. Dad might indeed be a poor planner. I think it's possible to give tax free gifts of land to your children over time so that they eventually own the land.Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #116 October 15, 2007 Quote Nobody should have to IMO. and who is whining huh? And that right there is the BIGGEST window into your belief system. Ok you dont want to pay ANY taxes....yet I bet you EXPECT services that the government provides.. The something for nothing crowd....well doneTaxes are the dues we pay to live in this country... maybe you should leave since you dont want to pay for what you use. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #117 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote Why should inheriting a valuable farm or business be treated any differently from inheriting the same value in stocks, antiques, or cash? Because equities and cash can easily be divided up, while a farm or business cannot. They're not nearly as liquid. I gave some illustrations. Inconvenient, maybe. But what exactly does that have to do with paying your fair share to govern the country? Why should you pay less JUST because of your parents' choice of business? And you only have to pay anything at all if the farm is worth more than $2Million. So you tell me sir. Who is the arbiter of what is fair.. You and other fiscal socialists? If not you then who??? And more than $2Million is just ? My dad bought his land for $600 an acre. Today it is worth over $4500/acre. Now, he cant sell it because he would have capital gains on it. If he wills it to the children can they afford to pay the $XXX in taxes to keep it? What if the child has been working with his dad for 20 years and lived off the farm too. Dad us a poor planner? It is set up to take money away from someone who has worked very hard for it and let the gov decide where it is to go. Nothing fair about it all It's not all about YOU. Why should your family not pay taxes on their inheritance or capital gains while other families have to pay on theirs? Explain how THAT would be fair. Consider yourselves lucky that your family land has appreciated in value, and don't whine about it. Would you prefer it had lost value? Dam kallend, where in hell did you get any of this??? where did i say some should some shouldnt? Nobody should have to IMO. and who is whining huh? I cant give you an example without spewing something out with some major distortions of the context. Well, if you had deigned to answer this question instead of ignoring it, maybe we would know where you are coming from. Because your personal circumstances make inheritance taxes unfavorable to you, you think they are bad. I think we all understand your position now. Let someone else pay.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #118 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Nobody should have to IMO. and who is whining huh? And that right there is the BIGGEST window into your belief system. Ok you dont want to pay ANY taxes....yet I bet you EXPECT services that the government provides.. The something for nothing crowd....well doneTaxes are the dues we pay to live in this country... maybe you should leave since you dont want to pay for what you use. Well, there always the option of taking a leaf from Bush's book, and just running up a debt you have no intention of repaying.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #119 October 15, 2007 Quote Ok you dont want to pay ANY taxes....yet I bet you EXPECT services that the government provides.. I am glad I don’t get all the government I pay for.We pay Income Tax, We pay Capitol Gains Tax, We Pay property Tax, We pay sales Tax. At some point, enough is enough. If we live a Smart Life and manage to save some money and/or acquire property that all these Taxes were already paid on, we should be able to leave that to a someone with the Government trying to tax it more. I haven’t read ANYONE here even come close to saying we should have to pay Taxes. The argument is over the Inheritance Tax and was started when someone made the ridiculous claim that the Tax should be 95%. The land that many Family Farms are on is worth more than 2 Million depending on location. That doesn’t mean that the Family working it has a dime. Just that property values have increased. If the Farmer Dies and leaves the Farm to his Kids that may also live and work on that farm, the inheritance tax can cause then to loose the farm completely. And No I don’t think this should apply to just Farmers. Giving the Government more money is NOT the answer to most problems. Our Government is already way too bloated as it is. Bush has been just as bad as a Lefty when it comes to spending money we don’t have for things we don’t need. Everyone should pay their fair share. The real argument starts what is fair. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #120 October 15, 2007 >Who is the arbiter of what is fair.. The government we elected. >Now, he cant sell it because he would have capital gains on it. Of course he can sell it if he so chooses; he would just make a 640% profit instead of a 750% profit. >It is set up to take money away from someone who has worked very >hard for it and let the gov decide where it is to go. That's what taxes are. If you don't like them, spend less money. I mean, you clearly support the war, which is our biggest optional expense nowadays. Who should pay for that, if not you? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #121 October 15, 2007 Quote >Now, he cant sell it because he would have capital gains on it. Of course he can sell it if he so chooses; he would just make a 640% profit instead of a 750% profit. >It is set up to take money away from someone who has worked very hard for it and let the gov decide where it is to go. That's what taxes are. If you don't like them, spend less money. I thought we were talking inheritance taxes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,116 #122 October 15, 2007 >I thought we were talking inheritance taxes. Do you think that inheritance taxes go somewhere else other than the US government? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #123 October 15, 2007 QuoteQuoteHow many? Got any factual data to support that claim? No I don't. Just the 3 that I have seen in person from people I know. I am sure they are not the only ones. Just because I don't have a detailed graph to show doesn't mean it does not happen. And vice-versa. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #124 October 15, 2007 Quote Quote Ok you dont want to pay ANY taxes....yet I bet you EXPECT services that the government provides.. I am glad I don’t get all the government I pay for.We pay Income Tax, We pay Capitol Gains Tax, We Pay property Tax, We pay sales Tax. At some point, enough is enough. . Yup, we pay, the Capitol gains. However, if any one of these is reduced, others have to pick up the slack because the government is NOT going to stop spending. Right now the burden is distributed among those that earn money, those that make it by shrewd investing, and those that inherit money or property. ON THE WHOLE I'd favor those folks that did something for their money (whether working for it or by being shrewd investors) over those who have it handed to them on a plate. But that's just me.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
warpedskydiver 0 #125 October 15, 2007 The land that many Family Farms are on is worth more than 2 Million depending on location. That doesn’t mean that the Family working it has a dime. Just that property values have increased. If the Farmer Dies and leaves the Farm to his Kids that may also live and work on that farm, the inheritance tax can cause then to loose the farm completely. And No I don’t think this should apply to just Farmers. Quote That my friend was said by a few very noteworthy Surveyors in the past, two being former bosses of mine who were also Professors, and one VP of the Association. This was planned from the beginning by various groups in order to take away what others have, and held onto despite all efforts. Emminent Domain being misused, and the Inheritance Tax are the tools of land grabbers.I will admit there are posters in this very forum who will deny that this is occurring, but ask yourselves who you would believe, some person who has an opinion and posts in here, or someone who spent an entire adult lifetime in the study of land and the laws governing such? If anyone would like to argue about how this applies I will gladly give some examples, one organizaton the government uses to steal land away is the Tax Assessors Office. This activity of stealing land by all means availible goes back to before the USA existed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
