Way to go, UAW, Just Don't Get It...

[normiss 893]

I will say you and Lawrocket both have me looking at this whole thing differently for sure.
It still comes down to the fact that our average worker in this country continues to get screwed....and unions used to protect them. Our instant notification provides no way for us to do anything once we become aware of the injustice though...
I think our government is just as guilty as the UAW is thought given the legislation they have passed in favor of foreign companies to invest and do business here. Our companies have not had some of the same favors passed along to them.

[kallend 2,147]

Quote

ya and eaven after years of losses and govermetn grants that kept many of them in jobs the fist renewal when they were back in the Black the UAW went for the throat and gained big conessions.

I just don't understand it when a company stugles dose miminal lay offs and keeps people in job and the fist moment they make money (Not eaven in to a good enough recovery position and after years of losses) the union get pissed saying they are being taken advantage of.

.

And how do you feel about executives that pay themselves huge salaries even when the company is losing money?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

It still comes down to the fact that our average worker in this country continues to get screwed

Do you have anything to back this up?
Please don't cite anything from one of those highly biased communist/socialist "worker" groups.

Quote

I think our government is just as guilty as the UAW is thought given the legislation they have passed in favor of foreign companies to invest and do business here. Our companies have not had some of the same favors passed along to them.

Are you saying it's a bad that companies like Honda and BMW are manufacturing cars in the US? Are the perks provided to these companies greater than perks provided to US companies?

[billvon 3,114]

>how do you feel about executives that pay themselves huge salaries even
>when the company is losing money?

You mean the same executives that continue to pay huge salaries to their employees? I don't feel too bad about that.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

And how do you feel about executives that pay themselves huge salaries even when the company is losing money?

In general, it's pretty smarmy. Even with profitable companies, the rising ratio of CEO pay to average employee pay has gotten way out of hand.

However, when a company shows improvement and it's shown that top management was key, they should be compensated.

Another thing to consider is capable CEOs are a pretty rare commodity. The marketplace essentially dictates how much they are paid.

[pirana 0]

Quote

The other thing I can not stand is the senority system they put in place it gives no incentive for people to better them selfs. My brother wen't back to night school at collage and upgrade cources and add more skills to try to get ahead and when he applied for the prometed position they didn't eaven care about that the uninion forced the senority issue and a guy that was there 2 days earlier them him and still no highschool diploma won out.

He quit on the spot he was so disgusted.

I worked in a plant in Chicago where employees were represented by the Boilermakers. As a new employee, you became a Boilermaker, like it or not.

Absolutely everything was done by seniority. Job opening were posted, and were given to the most senior person to apply, regardless of skill or experience. All you had to do was go to the seniority list posted in the cafeteria and see if you were the most senior person below the grade posted. If you were, the job was yours. No interviews, no assessment.

And getting rid of dead weight. Forget it. You had to be incredibly pathetically bad before you could be gotten rid of - which was about a 2-year process for anything short of theft. It was shameful some of the lazy slugs they protected.

The union approach was that all employees were equally worthy in all ways, save their hire date.

" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

[normiss 893]

loyoffs or visas
immigration jobs
foreign ownership in the us

I worked at a VERY large German owned company operating in the US, they're involved in everything, cell phones, power generation, security systems, medical equipment, electronics of all varieties...and the middle management level was the cutoff for American citizens, only Germans with H1-B visas held anything higher, in fact I saw multiple occasions where an entire department of Americans was laid off and the following Monday a plane load of H1-B visa carrying Germans replaced them doing the exact same job functions.
Yes I think it's bad that foreign companies like Honda and BMW are manufacturing here...oops...ASSEMBLING here. Parts are made overseas and imported to the factory here, profits leave our country and go back there, we aren't afforded the same rights of commerce in their respective countries. Yes foreign companies have incentives given by local economies and federal government. A lot of small companies now days (I have three friends that own such companies) that when they are worth $100,000 or more, have been in business for three years or more, offer a government program for a non-citizen to purchase the business with a citizenship offer included.
So now we're trying to falsely inflate a small business only to sell it to foreign interests...sounds like Reaganomics and the housing industry "flipping" technique all over to me.
I just think we're falsely adding "value" to our economy that won't be there in the future when the real long term value of it are shown.

[NCclimber 0]

I'd like to no more about these foreign companies that have glass ceilings for Americans... and examples of wholesale layoffs where the old positions are filled completely with foreigners.

Are the incentives for foreign companies really different from incentives offered to relocating or expanding US companies?

[AWL71 0]

Honda’s Manufacturing Investment in America
COMPANY LOCATION CAPITAL INVESTMENT
Honda of America Mfg., Inc. Marysville, OH (autos)
Marysville, OH (motorcycles)
Anna, OH
East Liberty, OH
$3.6 billion
$168 million
$1.4 billion
$1 billion
Honda Manufacturing of Alabama, LLC Lincoln, AL $1.3 billion
Honda of South Carolina Mfg., Inc. Timmonsville, SC (ATVs)
Timmonsville, SC (PWCs)
$200 million
Honda Power Equipment Mfg., Inc. Swepsonsville, NC $179 million
Honda Transmission Mfg. of America, Inc. Russells Point, OH $325 million
Honda Precision Parts of Georgia, LLC Tallapoosa, GA $150 million
Honda Manufacturing of Indiana, LLC* Greensburg, IN $550 million

Here is a list of how much honda has invested into our infrastructure. Those numbers represent thousands of good jobs for us. You may not like it but we live in a global economy. And until GM or Ford can make a car as nice as the Accord honda will continue to be successful.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[BillyVance 35]

Quote

Quote

And getting rid of dead weight. Forget it. You had to be incredibly pathetically bad before you could be gotten rid of - which was about a 2-year process for anything short of theft. It was shameful some of the lazy slugs they protected.

That's one of the reasons I hate unions. Then again, you see this happen in state and federal agencies too. SSA employees (not all) are notoriously lazy. But open one porn site on the internet and you're gone in a flash.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

• Quote

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Hmm, so you think these foreign companies should not be allowed to operate in the US. I guess Exxon, Microsoft, Ticketmaster, Safeway, Weyerhauser et al. should be kicked out of Canada. Oh and of course GM, Ford and Chrysler. I think Castro acquiesced to those wishes didn't he?

[normiss 893]

IBM
H1-B outsourcing
L-1 Visas
Visa details
US Infrastructure
taxation
and this makes you feel good about our country??
feeling more secure???
I like this guy...

let's not forget how much infrastructure they're buying here, how much they have invested in other foreign business dealings outside the us with countries we will not directly deal with, the poor quality of some of their products - especially the third-country-party products...

maybe it's just me...but I am concerned with our safety, the security of certain infrastructure, the financial future stability...and I don't care for the "NOW" mindset...these are long term concerns that will affect us a long way down the road.

[normiss 893]

make it a more fair playing field and I'll reconsider.

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

let's not forget how much infrastructure they're buying here, how much they have invested in other foreign business dealings outside the us with countries we will not directly deal with, the poor quality of some of their products - especially the third-country-party products...

As opposed to the high quality cars GM makes in Mexico?

I fail to see a problem with Honda or Toyota doing any part of their manufacturing in the US rather than elsewhere. For the latter, we get nothing. If people are going to buy their vehicles, we might as well get some of the financial benefit.

[AWL71 0]

Now I do agree that the trade defecit we have with countries like Japan is a problem. We should be allowed to import as much as they export. Changes should be made there.

The most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the government and I'm here to help.

[Armour666 0]

every one that has shars is responsable for that. Executives do not make thier own pay scales the BOD dose and that is controled by every voting share holder. And last year they CEO pay was cut in half and the Executives 30% for GM

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[normiss 893]

so he only made over 4 mil in salary...what about shares of stock and bonuses???

[Remster 30]

Quote

so he only made over 4 mil in salary...what about shares of stock and bonuses???

So what would be an appropriate salary to attract a CEO to turn around GM?

Remster

[Armour666 0]

Quote

Just when GM was showing signs of life, in the face of losing market share on a global scale each year, while just getting some decent products to the market, what does UAW do? They demand still more from an employer that has literally been dying to meet previous demands.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070925/ap_on_bi_ge/auto_talks;_ylt=ArFKgfebbYIVCK98wMYk62us0NUE

Thanks to GM's lack of foresight, and the UAW's growing irresponsible appetite for benefits that the rest of the country seems to live happily without, GM now nets mere dollars per vehicle built while supporting overhead of nearly $2000 per vehicle just to support pension commitments. There's a difference of nearly $25/hr per worker compared with some competitors.

There is something sorely wrong with this picture.

Saturn workers in Spring Hill, TN can look enviously to their Toyota, Honda and Nissan counterparts in TN and KY. One can only hope that they see this and begin to wonder if UAW is really looking out for their best interests.

GM, for whatever reason, has remained a waning beacon of the "old, big, business" of big benefits and lifelong guarantees. Not even the railroad industry follows that model. GM, in order to survive, must cut the fat. UAW, in order to keep itself, and its members relevant, must lead in a new model of representation, finding new ways to guarantee certain benefits.

They listed $50,000,000,000 in Liabilitys to support retired 5.6 billion last year on health care cost alone , they are one of the few where ther is $0 out of pocket expence for workers

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[Rookie120 0]

I would like to know one thing. Who here has actually worked in a union shop? A lot of people bitch about the unions but they have never seen a union shop. Just wondering.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Nightingale 0]

Quote

I would like to know one thing. Who here has actually worked in a union shop? A lot of people bitch about the unions but they have never seen a union shop. Just wondering.

The majority of employees are unionized where I work. So far, all I've seen is that the civil service protections negotiated by the unions encourage employees to slack off as soon as they pass probation, knowing it's damn near impossible to fire them after that. I haven't seen a union do a single thing for an employee here that they weren't capable of doing for themselves.

[normiss 893]

geez...isn't 2 mil enough??

[Armour666 0]

I have and never will again, at one major manufacture of cereal , A person was sexual harassing another employee was they were separate to different areas while an investigation was run. During this period of time he raped her out side of work when formal charges were filed by the police he was fired. Because the business did not follow "proper procedures" in the firing that were in the contract the union Fought the firing. After he completed his jail time he was reinstated in to his job and owed a period of pack pay due to the firing.

Union getting a weekend worker program forced in the company where the most senior ones can work 2x12 hour shifts on a weekend and get paid for a 40 hour work week.

The whole seniority list crap. Being in I.T. and forced to be part of the union and then being told you are putting to much effort your making some of us look bad.

Having the union oppose surveillance in High secure areas where promotion materials go in to the boxes and contest are kept even though items were showing up in Local collector shops and a disapportionate amount of "friends" winning contests.

The sonority system.

Having a contract with a company to do and I.T. upgrade then a grievance put in that one of the jobs can be performed by a unionized member. The work took those 8 days longer then what I would have been able to do it at causing delays in my other projects and customers and causing me to directly loose another contract as could not meet the deadline start and finish date and having penalties to pay on it.

The example my Brother went through.

Having My dads and My vehicle for his business vandalized when he was installing carpet and tile for a friend in a high end store, in a mall that was still in construction phase because he was not union that this was a union site and Pieces of shit like use need to get the fuck out of here before more accidents happen (This was a real lovely introduction to unions when I was 17 so much for private owners and small business being able to freely work)

NOT BEING ABLE TO BID ON LEGITIMATE CONTRACTS!!!!! Many city some larger companies have NON-Union clause that as a small business that is non unioized I can not bid on these contracts 70 percent of the time I work by my self on bigger jobs I higher some one usually 2-3 people for the duration.

And things Like this

http://www.fbi.gov/gotcha/archive/got111706.htm
http://www.fbi.gov/gotcha/archive/got111006.htm

http://www.nlpc.org/olap/UCU2/03_17_10.htm

http://media.www.nyunews.com/media/storage/paper869/news/2003/09/25/UndefinedSection/No.Union.No.Construction-2391416.shtml

http://www.laborers.org/nyd_7-3-98.html

Nothing like making sure they have continued work

http://main.wgbh.org/ton/programs/6582_01

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4155/is_20060904/ai_n16708102

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

Quote

so he only made over 4 mil in salary...what about shares of stock and bonuses???

So what would be an appropriate salary to attract a CEO to turn around GM?

I'm not sure any salary is attractive enough for that task. What brings these CEOs in are the option packages that have a fixed strike price. And that's the problem in compensation.

if a CEO does absolutely nothing useful, the company should still grow by the rate of inflation, and a mediocre one should be able to get 5% growth, even if the stock market averages 10% growth. Still millions of options x 5% gain/yr still equal serious bucks. Proper compensation would have that strike price going up at least 5% per year (and perhaps instead to the benchmark for the industry) so that he or she is not rewarded 10s or 100s of millions for doing little.

[DSE 5]

Quote

I would like to know one thing. Who here has actually worked in a union shop? A lot of people bitch about the unions but they have never seen a union shop. Just wondering.

Yup. Most of the entertainment industry is union-based, although independents are making serious headway in the past few years. SAG and IATSE have really hurt in the past few years.