Student tazered at public Kerry speech

[normiss 893]

isn't this good evidence of why the drunk tank type vans were made?

[Thanatos340 1]

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This situation could have been very easily dealt with without accesive force. This kid wasnt a threat. He was loud...but he wasnt a threat.

Easy to say that now.
He was an Idiot that was clearly resisting and disrupting the proceedings.

Actions Have consequences.

The entire "Temper Tantrum" generation need to learn that screaming and making a scene is NOT the way to handle problems.

The cops tried asking him to leave (He pulled away),
They tried escorting him by the arm (He Resisted),
They tried Carrying him out (He struggled and Resisted),
They tried wrestling him to the ground (He continued to Struggle and Resist)….

At some point they have to say time to stop this madness before someone gets hurt. Tase his ass, Drag him out and figure out what the hell is wrong with this jackass. Better yet, Lock him up and let the Judge decide what to do with him.

[skycop 0]

Anyone who is highly agitated prior to police intervention, refuses to move after being ordered to do so several times, then pulls away several times, attempts to flee, pulls away again all the while flailing his arms and legs, is absolutely a threat. I've been injured by these very same circumstances.

How is this for a scenario:
The kid gets his mic turned off, he gets pissed and refuses to leave. Cops tell him he has to, he again refuses, the cop gently grabs one arm and attempts to lead him from the venue. Kid tells the cops this is fucked up but complies. He files a complaint against the event and officers involved.
Now who wins in this scenario? The kid doesn't get tazed, the organizers can see if the event trully was run properly, and the cops can review for any policy violations.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

Again,
Sticking your head inside a vehicle when someone is kicking like that is a VERY bad idea. You tell her to stop as he did, she refuses, then IMHO she is fair game. And yes the car doesn't belong to me, it belongs to all of us. Many times kicking a window out can cause the whole door to bend out before the window breaks. This can cost hundred of your tax dollars to fix.

It would also depend on policy, some departments forbid tazing of handcuffed suspects period. Others only allow it when a suspect is assaultive or damaging property. I think the latter is a fair policy.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[pop 0]

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Anyone who is highly agitated prior to police intervention, refuses to move after being ordered to do so several times, then pulls away several times, attempts to flee, pulls away again all the while flailing his arms and legs, is absolutely a threat. I've been injured by these very same circumstances.

How is this for a scenario:
The kid gets his mic turned off, he gets pissed and refuses to leave. Cops tell him he has to, he again refuses, the cop gently grabs one arm and attempts to lead him from the venue. Kid tells the cops this is fucked up but complies. He files a complaint against the event and officers involved.
Now who wins in this scenario? The kid doesn't get tazed, the organizers can see if the event trully was run properly, and the cops can review for any policy violations.

lets see what kind of results the lawsuit will yield....though when cops stand trial, those trials are always questionable. you are suing the law enforcers in the court of law . wonder how often the judge personally knows the cops getting sued.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[skycop 0]

Most departments don't have transport vans mainly large city departments do, they are very expensive. .

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

My bet is if there is a lawsuit the college will settle, insurance carriers are skiddish about taking cases to trial, juries can be funny animals. Normally it comes down to a business decision, it's cheaper to settle than try the case.
If it goes to trial, my money is on the officers, not because of any factors you cited, because quite frankly they are ridiculous.
I always tell my guys this, if you do something, you'd better be able to convince 12 people you are right.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Zenister 0]

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Restraint and control techniques are taught however, outside of a controlled environment they can be less than effective.

I do agree that it becomes easier for an officer to use a tazer than good communication skills.

Therefore the Tazer becomes the FIRST response because its easier..

Restraint and Control techniques work wonderfully when practiced often, kept current and applied correctly.

against a PCP enraged linebacker... maybe not, but against an untrained college kid who the officers ALREADY HAD HANDS ON???

I know a 78 year old 90lb female who can subdue and restrain damn near anyone who lays a hand on her...ofc she is at the far end of the training scale (training and gardening is all she does anymore) but the level of professionalism shown lately by multiple videos all across the country indicates that such training is neglected in favor of 'just taze his ass'..

those in this vid are Campus Security Guards, chances of them having any real training in Restraint and Control beyond their 2 week course at the Academy is slim and none..

Does your office have training and currency requirements for Restraint and Control? I'll bet not.. Many officers pursue such training on their own (many because they recognize their training is woefully inadequate and wont be funded) but that should not be the norm.. unfortunately it seems to be with most LEO's i've asked.... why? it costs to much.. managers and accountants dont want to spend the money when they can issue you a tazer and rely on your firearms training and currency requirements instead.

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[skycop 0]

Very good points,
I won't argue any of them, it does come down to money, time, and priorities.
The just "taze his ass" is a supervision issue, verbal and empty-handed should be tried first if possible.

Money-Training dollars are at a premium, we do have recurrent training in PPCT, but not as much as I'd like.

Time-Training time is also at a premium, both personal and professional. Mastering these techniques takes almost daily practice, between work, family, changing shifts, sickness, other training etc. there are only so many hours in a day.

I'd love to shoot like a Navy SEAL, fight like a ninja, and talk like a physcologist but time dictates otherwise. It's great on tv, somewhat unrealistic in practice.

BTW, I've used my PR-24 2 times in 17 yrs, I'm a big believer in communication skills, that is my best weapon.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[rehmwa 2]

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wonder how often the judge personally knows the cops getting sued.

I think the automatic assumption that cops and judges (just people) are automatically lazy, corrupt, and prone to sadistic and petty actions is pathetic and childish and petulant.

Do you have any friends or neighbors or co-workers in law enforcement? I've known several - I didn't find them any more or less this way than engineers, welders, college professors.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[NCclimber 0]

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My bet is if there is a lawsuit the college will settle, insurance carriers are skiddish about taking cases to trial, juries can be funny animals.

No kidding. Just look at the number of people in this thread who don't think this guy brought it on himself... who simply think it about his right to free speech being taken away... who view law enforcement as a brutal, corrupt entity.

[normiss 893]

the problem there is I don't think we have too many welders out there that can put you away for a time based on their ability to lie for their job.
No engineer I know is quite that empowered...power corrupts some people.
And college professors are just...well they're just that.
although I suppose they can detain one for a few years...

[Zipp0 1]

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Do you have any friends or neighbors or co-workers in law enforcement? I've known several - I didn't find them any more or less this way than engineers, welders, college professors.

Yes, but black friends that I have had seemed to behave like 2 different people when they hung out with me, and then when they hung out with their 'brothers'. They adjusted their behavior to fit into the respective groups.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

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Yes, but black friends that I have had seemed to behave like 2 different people when they hung out with me, and then when they hung out with their 'brothers'. They adjusted their behavior to fit into the respective groups.

And I behave totally different when I am in a Work Environment and when I am at the DZ. Almost tow totally different people

everyone behaves differently to some degree depending on their environment. The ability to do so is very important in a civilized society.

That is not a racial trait, It is a Human trait.

[pop 0]

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wonder how often the judge personally knows the cops getting sued.

I think the automatic assumption that cops and judges (just people) are automatically lazy, corrupt, and prone to sadistic and petty actions is pathetic and childish and petulant.

Do you have any friends or neighbors or co-workers in law enforcement? I've known several - I didn't find them any more or less this way than engineers, welders, college professors.

I know some shady ass engineers.

7 ounce wonders, music and dogs that are not into beer

[Zipp0 1]

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Yes, but black friends that I have had seemed to behave like 2 different people when they hung out with me, and then when they hung out with their 'brothers'. They adjusted their behavior to fit into the respective groups.

And I behave totally different when I am in a Work Environment and when I am at the DZ. Almost tow totally different people

everyone behaves differently to some degree depending on their environment. The ability to do so is very important in a civilized society.

That is not a racial trait, It is a Human trait.

Thank you for agreeing with me. My point was that cops that you know may act very differently whan they come over to watch college football and when they are among other cops and judges, on the job. My post was not meant to indicate a racial issue, but the human tendency to adjust to the group dynamic.

--------------------------
Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[skycop 0]

Also all you turds...............
Today I hit the 20 year mark, the state I work in I can RETIRE as of today if I want!!
Unfortunaly I have a daughter in college and other bills as of right now so I have to keep dealing with the public, instead of saying "would you like a cart?"
But it is nice to know, if shit gets too stupid I'm DONE!

Soooo..............after my 5th Beam and diet coke, all you cop haters can kiss my donut eating, bad guy tazing ( I wish), big fat white hairy ass!!!
Just kdding, hate the game not the playerPeace out!!
Jim

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[1969912 0]

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Also all you turds...............
Today I hit the 20 year mark, the state I work in I can RETIRE as of today if I want!!
Unfortunaly I have a daughter in college and other bills as of right now so I have to keep dealing with the public, instead of saying "would you like a cart?"
But it is nice to know, if shit gets too stupid I'm DONE!

Soooo..............after my 5th Beam and diet coke, all you cop haters can kiss my donut eating, bad guy tazing ( I wish), big fat white hairy ass!!!
Just kdding, hate the game not the playerPeace out!!
Jim

Congrats on 20 years! I am one who hates the game and many of the players, but I will always be amazed at the shit you guys put up with.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[n23x 0]

Whoa whoa whoa, little buddy! (no bacon jokes here)

Seriously, congratulations for all you do. Good work for taking on a job most all of us would be too afraid or uncomfortable to do. 20 years is dedication to your craft, and your country. Thanks very much!

Respect,
.jim

"Don't touch my fucking Easter eggs, I'll be back monday." ~JTFC