Student tazered at public Kerry speech

[Thanatos340 1]

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Bullshit. By that logic we should be tasing Sean Penn when he goes over time at the Oscars and says something against the war.

They have x amount of time to make their "Speech", Then the Music Starts and their mic is faded down, If they were to continue to occupy the stage at that point I am Certain Security would be asked to remove them.

What you clearly dont want to see is that the "Question" had nothing to do this. His ACTIONS are what caused this. His pulling away from officers and struggling with them caused this.

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Congressmen frequently go over time and continue, shouting over the gavel if necessary. Should we tase them?

If they refuse to concede the floor, They should be removed. If they resist the officers that are called upon to remove them, YES.

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Congressmen frequently go over time and continue, shouting over the gavel if necessary. Should we taze them?

That is a Debate. Something totally different than a Breif Question/Answer period.

The tazeing was only because the Guy would not stop resisting the officers. he had every chance in the world to Comply with the officers before they finally had to taze him to get the situation under control.

[NCclimber 0]

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I think the rule should be, if you are not holding some sort of weapon (brick or stick included), no taser.

So exactly how should an Officer that trying to contain a suspect that is fighting back? Just wrestle him till taps out?

SOMEHOW the cops managed to arrest people before the taser was invented.

Yeah. They should have just clubbed (or maced) him.

[Zipp0 1]

I agree with most of what you said. I think the real danger is that since there is no permanent damage (usually) police are prone to over-employ the taser. Also, I have seen over use in situations where police wanted 'compliance'. For instance, there was a case where a suspect went limp after being tased (common) and was told to stand. When he couldn't stand right away he was tased again for 'resisting.' (laying on the ground). Seems like obvious abuse.

There was also a recent case when a hog tied woman was tased repeatedly. (6 cops fired)

Just google 'taser' in the news section and you will find case after case of abuse and borderline abuse. This is becoming more and more common.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[nathaniel 0]

Seems like the officers confronted the perp in a way that agitated him...should have cut off the mic first, approached him from the front and gestured for him to sit down, etc... basically allow him to decide whether he wants to escalate into an arrest or not. Instead it seems like they startled him and triggered a fight / flight reaction.

Once he was unruly and fighting it seemed like zapping him was probably justified, but seems like shoddy police work is what got them there. The kid's reaction seems like panic rather than reasoned resistance or malfeasance.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[Thanatos340 1]

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SOMEHOW the cops managed to arrest people before the taser was invented

yep, I will be glad to show you the scars if we ever meet. Like I said before.. Hold on ground, Grab Hair, Pound head against concrete till Dumb Ass College Student stops trying to resist. Worked great on me many years ago. Maybe actually knocked a little (very little) sense into me. but I did learn it doesnt matter who is right, The cop says lay down and put your hands behind your back.. Do exactly that, Right then and right there.

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And there were 6 cops on this one student. Are you telling me that these cops are such huge pussies that 6 of them couldn't handle one student?

Doesnt matter if there were 100 cops. The guy kept struggling with tem. No need for anyone to risk getting hurt (the officers or the suspect). Apply the taser and carry him out.

[Thanatos340 1]

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The kid's reaction seems like panic rather than reasoned resistance or malfeasance

Bet you a Jump ticket it was None of the above. bet it was a planned Prank by this guy. He planned on getting arrested before he ever walked in.

You want the bet?

[Zipp0 1]

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Bullshit. By that logic we should be tasing Sean Penn when he goes over time at the Oscars and says something against the war.

They have x amount of time to make their "Speech", Then the Music Starts and their mic is faded down, If they were to continue to occupy the stage at that point I am Certain Security would be asked to remove them.

Never, ever has it happened, and there have been some pretty long, outrageous things spewed at the Oscars.

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Congressmen frequently go over time and continue, shouting over the gavel if necessary. Should we tase them?

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If they refuse to concede the floor, They should be removed. If they resist the officers that are called upon to remove them, YES.

Won't happen. Why? Because they know that suppression of free speech in the building meant to represent the cradle of freedom in the world would be beyond appalling. And the very suggestion that a congressman should be tased for speaking out of turn is absolutely ludicrous.

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The tazeing was only because the Guy would not stop resisting the officers. he had every chance in the world to Comply with the officers before they finally had to taze him to get the situation under control.

They could have just cuffed him, like they are supposed to. There were 6 officers - that's 3 for each arm. If they couldn't control him given those circumstances they should be fired for incompetence. As it is, they are on leave pending an investigation.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[nathaniel 0]

I bet he wasn't planning on getting zapped.

My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski?

[Thanatos340 1]

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I bet he wasn't planning on getting zapped.

Didnt say that. Just that he wanted to make a scene and get arrested. he planned this (Maybe not the tasering part) but the grand standing part and the getting arrested part.

[skycop 0]

I won't agree with it becoming more and more common. It is sensational and the media treats it that way. I said in an earlier post that the UCLA library guy IMHO was not a tazer candidate, but you really can't see what he is doing so I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the officer (just look at my name)....lol

My job is not to take the first shot then react, the use of force continium lets me stay one step ahead of a suspect to prevent injury.

The alternative is a wrestling match, or using an impact weapon or worse.

As macho as this sounds, I don't have to do a Google search dude, I live this stuff.

We don't have tazers, I wish we did

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Zipp0 1]

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Doesnt matter if there were 100 cops. The guy kept struggling with tem. No need for anyone to risk getting hurt (the officers or the suspect). Apply the taser and carry him out.

Please. Sure it does. He wasn't a dangerous armed criminal. He's a journalism student. Standing in front of him and saying "you are under arrest" and then reading his rights might have been a good start. Also, unless you are an aggressive threat to the officers (swinging a fist or object or holding a weapon) taser is not justified. If he goes to the ground, pull the arms back and cuff him.

Had he taken an aggressive stance or attempted to fight in an offensive manner, the taser would be more appropriate. But I maintain that bad police work escalated the situation and the whole thing could have been handled without the forthcoming lawsuits.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Zipp0 1]

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I won't agree with it becoming more and more common. It is sensational and the media treats it that way. I said in an earlier post that the UCLA library guy IMHO was not a tazer candidate, but you really can't see what he is doing so I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the officer (just look at my name)....lol

My job is not to take the first shot then react, the use of force continium lets me stay one step ahead of a suspect to prevent injury.

The alternative is a wrestling match, or using an impact weapon or worse.

As macho as this sounds, I don't have to do a Google search dude, I live this stuff.

We don't have tazers, I wish we did

Well, as tasers become more common, the abuse of them becomes more common. A headline of "DUI Driver Tased After Punching Officer in the Face" seems appropriate. But it is followed by "Hogtied Woman Tazed Repeatedly".

So whether you agree or not it is becoming more common.

Responsible taser use is a good idea, but their use must be monitored and abuse cases handled liek the torture that they are.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[NCclimber 0]

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Doesnt matter if there were 100 cops. The guy kept struggling with tem. No need for anyone to risk getting hurt (the officers or the suspect). Apply the taser and carry him out.

Please. Sure it does. He wasn't a dangerous armed criminal. He's a journalism student. Standing in front of him and saying "you are under arrest" and then reading his rights might have been a good start. Also, unless you are an aggressive threat to the officers (swinging a fist or object or holding a weapon) taser is not justified. If he goes to the ground, pull the arms back and cuff him.

Had he taken an aggressive stance or attempted to fight in an offensive manner, the taser would be more appropriate. But I maintain that bad police work escalated the situation and the whole thing could have been handled without the forthcoming lawsuits.

If only you had been there.... this whole unfortunate scene could have been avoided.

[Jib 0]

I'm wondering why police officer was controlling a question/answer session in the first place? It seems that there should have been some moderator or someone from the University's faculty or staff to address such problems. Maybe, I missed that part.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[Jib 0]

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I won't agree with it becoming more and more common. It is sensational and the media treats it that way. I said in an earlier post that the UCLA library guy IMHO was not a tazer candidate, but you really can't see what he is doing so I'll give the benefit of the doubt to the officer (just look at my name)....lol

My job is not to take the first shot then react, the use of force continium lets me stay one step ahead of a suspect to prevent injury.

The alternative is a wrestling match, or using an impact weapon or worse.

As macho as this sounds, I don't have to do a Google search dude, I live this stuff.

We don't have tazers, I wish we did

Well, as tasers become more common, the abuse of them becomes more common. A headline of "DUI Driver Tased After Punching Officer in the Face" seems appropriate. But it is followed by "Hogtied Woman Tazed Repeatedly".

So whether you agree or not it is becoming more common.

Responsible taser use is a good idea, but their use must be monitored and abuse cases handled liek the torture that they are.

He must have been in Contempt of Cop.

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the depth of his depravity sickens me.
-- Jerry Falwell, People v. Larry Flynt

[Thanatos340 1]

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It seems that there should have been some moderator or someone from the University's faculty or staff to address such problems.

there was.
Watch the video I linked. You see them give the cut off signal right before the Officers are signaled to escort the guy away from the mic.

The guy was a just that wanted to make a scene. He did. he just didnt know when to quit.

[Andy9o8 2]

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The right to free speech does not include the right to disrupt a public forum!

Actually, it does - to a point. It's all about striking a just balance between liberties and social regulation. Having an open, democratic society governed by The People and the rule of law is damned hard work. U.S courts, police, governments, newspapers and ordinary citizens like you and me have been struggling with this balance for the past 231 years. I'm happy to report that there's no end in sight.

[skycop 0]

You missed the point, I DON'T HAVE TO TAKE THE FIRST PUNCH, I have and it hurts, along with having my mouth wired shut for 6 weeks.
If the headline reads "cop punched in face, suspect tazed" then I have failed to do my job. My job is to prevent that from happening.
Getting back to the point, this kid actively resisted, watch the long version. I've already seen versions where his resistance is edited out until he gets tazed. I would say several times he pulled away, pushed and attempted to flee. It's not the job of those officers to let him hit them, once he resisted they are trained to stay one step ahead of him to overcome the resistance and the attempt to flee. You may not like this, but they are facts. I would also say that initally the officers where just going to escort him out of the venue without any arrest, but his antics caused the situation to escalate.

If some woman claims to be hog-tied then tazed six times and it's true, well then that agency may as well get a blank checkbook out. And said woman should be able to retire to wherever she wants. Take all cases into account, not just the sensational ones.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Zipp0 1]

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Doesnt matter if there were 100 cops. The guy kept struggling with tem. No need for anyone to risk getting hurt (the officers or the suspect). Apply the taser and carry him out.

Please. Sure it does. He wasn't a dangerous armed criminal. He's a journalism student. Standing in front of him and saying "you are under arrest" and then reading his rights might have been a good start. Also, unless you are an aggressive threat to the officers (swinging a fist or object or holding a weapon) taser is not justified. If he goes to the ground, pull the arms back and cuff him.

Had he taken an aggressive stance or attempted to fight in an offensive manner, the taser would be more appropriate. But I maintain that bad police work escalated the situation and the whole thing could have been handled without the forthcoming lawsuits.

If only you had been there.... this whole unfortunate scene could have been avoided.

Yes, it could have. I would have let the man speak.

We had this little nursery rhyme about sticks and stones growing up. Speech, even that which I disagree with, does not scare me in the least.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

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Yes, it could have. I would have let the man speak

for how long?

when does his right to ask a question trump everyone elses right to ask thier question? There is only so much time available for the Q/A session.

Again, There are MANY reports that this guy had been disrutive before they allowed him speak. If this turns out to be true, would it change your stance?

[Royd 0]

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For instance, there was a case where a suspect went limp after being tased (common) and was told to stand. When he couldn't stand right away he was tased again for 'resisting.' (laying on the ground). Seems like obvious abuse.

Sort of like dad telling you, if you didn't stop crying, he'd give you something to cry about.

[Zipp0 1]

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Yes, it could have. I would have let the man speak

for how long?

when does his right to ask a question trump everyone elses right to ask thier question? There is only so much time available for the Q/A session.

Again, There are MANY reports that this guy had been disrutive before they allowed him speak. If this turns out to be true, would it change your stance?

Yes, and no. If he was a problem before, he should have been removed THEN. Since he waited his turn to speak, they should have given him at least a few minutes. If he was such a problem before, why was he not removed? If he is a known troublemaker, why let him in at all?

Had he gone on too long, the crown would have booed him off the mic. I've seen it at the city council meetings. When the crowd has had enough, they will let you know it.

Force/taser was unnecessary and excessive.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[NCclimber 0]

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If only you had been there.... this whole unfortunate scene could have been avoided.

Yes, it could have. I would have let the man speak.

Even though he was obviously being an obnoxious, antagonistic asshole?

Sure... let one asshole dictate the meeting, at the expense of everyone interested in productive dialogue.

Brilliant.

[Zipp0 1]

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For instance, there was a case where a suspect went limp after being tased (common) and was told to stand. When he couldn't stand right away he was tased again for 'resisting.' (laying on the ground). Seems like obvious abuse.

Sort of like dad telling you, if you didn't stop crying, he'd give you something to cry about.

Yes, but in this case bordering on child abuse.

Since tasers are not deadly, is using one on a cop less of an offense than using a knife or gun? It couldn't be "assault with a deadly weapon" could it?

cut to....

thud]
[King Arthur music]
[thud thud thud]
[King Arthur music stops]
ARTHUR:
Old woman!
DENNIS:
Man!
ARTHUR:
Man. Sorry. What knight lives in that castle over there?
DENNIS:
I'm thirty-seven.
ARTHUR:
I-- what?
DENNIS:
I'm thirty-seven. I'm not old.
ARTHUR:
Well, I can't just call you 'Man'.
DENNIS:
Well, you could say 'Dennis'.
ARTHUR:
Well, I didn't know you were called 'Dennis'.
DENNIS:
Well, you didn't bother to find out, did you?
ARTHUR:
I did say 'sorry' about the 'old woman', but from the behind you looked--
DENNIS:
What I object to is that you automatically treat me like an inferior!
ARTHUR:
Well, I am King!
DENNIS:
Oh, King, eh, very nice. And how d'you get that, eh? By exploiting the workers! By 'anging on to outdated imperialist dogma which perpetuates the economic and social differences in our society. If there's ever going to be any progress with the--
WOMAN:
Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here. Oh! How d'you do?

ARTHUR:
How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Who's castle is that?
WOMAN:
King of the who?
ARTHUR:
The Britons.
WOMAN:
Who are the Britons?
ARTHUR:
Well, we all are. We are all Britons, and I am your king.
WOMAN:
I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.
DENNIS:
You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship: a self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--
WOMAN:
Oh, there you go bringing class into it again.
DENNIS:
That's what it's all about. If only people would hear of--
ARTHUR:
Please! Please, good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?
WOMAN:
No one lives there.
ARTHUR:
Then who is your lord?
WOMAN:
We don't have a lord.
ARTHUR:
What?
DENNIS:
I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,...
ARTHUR:
Yes.
DENNIS:
...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...
ARTHUR:
Yes, I see.
DENNIS:
...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,...
ARTHUR:
Be quiet!
DENNIS:
...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--
ARTHUR:
Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!
WOMAN:
Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Heh.
ARTHUR:
I am your king!
WOMAN:
Well, I didn't vote for you.
ARTHUR:
You don't vote for kings.
WOMAN:
Well, how did you become King, then?
ARTHUR:
The Lady of the Lake,...
[angels sing]
...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.
[singing stops]
That is why I am your king!
DENNIS:
Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
ARTHUR:
Be quiet!
DENNIS:
Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
ARTHUR:
Shut up!
DENNIS:
I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
ARTHUR:
Shut up, will you? Shut up!

DENNIS:
Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
ARTHUR:
Shut up!
DENNIS:
Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!
ARTHUR:
Bloody peasant!
DENNIS:
Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[NCclimber 0]

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Yes, and no. If he was a problem before, he should have been removed THEN. Since he waited his turn to speak, they should have given him at least a few minutes. If he was such a problem before, why was he not removed? If he is a known troublemaker, why let him in at all?

What you're saying is they should have known beforehand and stepped on his rights to free speech before he ever asked a question, instead of allowing him a voice?

From what I saw, it wasn't his questions that got him in trouble, but his behavior.