Student tazered at public Kerry speech

[jakee 1,594]

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Why was he pulled from the mic? Was he given a warning?

He was asked several times to stop grandstanding and just ask a question. At one point he says something like "If he can lecture for 2 hours I think I should be allowed to talk for two minutes."

The wierd thing is the way they waited until he was finished talking before dragging him away. Seemed to defeat the object of it really.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[willard 0]

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His "playing dumb" act just doesn't cut it.

I don't think he was playing. I think he really is that dumb.

[Zipp0 1]

So, saying something someone doesn't want to hear is now grounds for taking you away in America? This is a clear violation of the right to free speech. At no point before being approached by the officers was he a physical threat to anyone. Inciting a riot? Please. If this kind of suppression of free speech continues, there SHOULD be riots, I'll give you that.

Being passionate and demanding answers of a politician is a right we have as US citizens. It should not be some dolt cop's place to decide what questions are acceptable. Their role should ONLY be to stop a physical assault of some type. If Kerry didn't like the questions, he would have said "that's crazy, next question," or the crowd would have shouted him down.

We need more people demanding answers, more "resisting," and less people going cheerfully along when they see terrible problems.

Oh, and we need to seriously restrict taser use. There are simply too many cases of abuse to ignore anymore.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[NCclimber 0]

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The wierd thing is the way they waited until he was finished talking before dragging him away. Seemed to defeat the object of it really.

Or maybe they were trying to be courteous, while doing what they needed to do.

[willard 0]

He wasn't done talking. Hard to say how long he would have continued to dusrupt the forum if the police had not cut his act short.
This isn't the first time he has done something like that. When the last Harry Potter book was released he stood out on the street holding a big sign that read "Harry died" just to ruin the book for those who wanted to read it but hadn't yet.
The guy is an ass, plain and simple.

[jakee 1,594]

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He wasn't done talking. Hard to say how long he would have continued to dusrupt the forum if the police had not cut his act short.
This isn't the first time he has done something like that. When the last Harry Potter book was released he stood out on the street holding a big sign that read "Harry died" just to ruin the book for those who wanted to read it but hadn't yet.
The guy is an ass, plain and simple.

How's that going to ruin the book, Harry doesn't die!

He definitely didn't seem quite 'right' though.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[willard 0]

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So, saying something someone doesn't want to hear is now grounds for taking you away in America? This is a clear violation of the right to free speech. At no point before being approached by the officers was he a physical threat to anyone. Inciting a riot? Please. If this kind of suppression of free speech continues, there SHOULD be riots, I'll give you that.

Being passionate and demanding answers of a politician is a right we have as US citizens. It should not be some dolt cop's place to decide what questions are acceptable. Their role should ONLY be to stop a physical assault of some type. If Kerry didn't like the questions, he would have said "that's crazy, next question," or the crowd would have shouted him down.

We need more people demanding answers, more "resisting," and less people going cheerfully along when they see terrible problems.

Oh, and we need to seriously restrict taser use. There are simply too many cases of abuse to ignore anymore.

The right to free speech does not include the right to disrupt a public forum! What part of that don't you understand???? He had his time at the mic but wouldn't stand down and allow Kerry the opportunity to answer or others in the room the chance to ask their questions. Remember, your right to swing your fist ends where the other guys nose starts. He took his right to speech to far and imposed on the rights of others.
A Q&A session is not meant to be a place for someone to stand on their soapbox and make a speech of their own. It is for people to ask questions in a civil manner, not by being an ass and demanding people listen to one's political grandstanding. There are plenty of other venues for that.

[willard 0]

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He wasn't done talking. Hard to say how long he would have continued to dusrupt the forum if the police had not cut his act short.
This isn't the first time he has done something like that. When the last Harry Potter book was released he stood out on the street holding a big sign that read "Harry died" just to ruin the book for those who wanted to read it but hadn't yet.
The guy is an ass, plain and simple.

How's that going to ruin the book, Harry doesn't die!

He definitely didn't seem quite 'right' though.

I wouldn't know since I never read any of the books.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Or maybe they were trying to be courteous, while doing what they needed to do.

Maybe it was justified after all. Had this passed on to me today by a friend:

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Yeah I thought that too at first but a friend was there and they are very big democrats. He said that it wasn't at all like it seems. That guy was causing shit before he even asked that question. He was yelling about not being able to ask a question or somthing like that . The event was running late. At that point John Kerry said let him ask his question and went on some diatribe before the kid started. That is the reason you see police directly behind him when he starts to ask his question. I guess this kid is known for being kind of a wingnut. My buddy didn't get to see the tasering part because he was blocked by people so he didn't know if the kid deserved it or not

So this information is removed a couple times from its source at this point, but the clips being showed on the web could be showing only part of the story.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Zipp0 1]

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So, saying something someone doesn't want to hear is now grounds for taking you away in America? This is a clear violation of the right to free speech. At no point before being approached by the officers was he a physical threat to anyone. Inciting a riot? Please. If this kind of suppression of free speech continues, there SHOULD be riots, I'll give you that.

Being passionate and demanding answers of a politician is a right we have as US citizens. It should not be some dolt cop's place to decide what questions are acceptable. Their role should ONLY be to stop a physical assault of some type. If Kerry didn't like the questions, he would have said "that's crazy, next question," or the crowd would have shouted him down.

We need more people demanding answers, more "resisting," and less people going cheerfully along when they see terrible problems.

Oh, and we need to seriously restrict taser use. There are simply too many cases of abuse to ignore anymore.

The right to free speech does not include the right to disrupt a public forum! What part of that don't you understand???? He had his time at the mic but wouldn't stand down and allow Kerry the opportunity to answer or others in the room the chance to ask their questions. Remember, your right to swing your fist ends where the other guys nose starts. He took his right to speech to far and imposed on the rights of others.
A Q&A session is not meant to be a place for someone to stand on their soapbox and make a speech of their own. It is for people to ask questions in a civil manner, not by being an ass and demanding people listen to one's political grandstanding. There are plenty of other venues for that.

I understand what you are saying. I just happen to think it's wrong.

When they open the floor and allow someone to approach the mic and speak, they have created a venue for political discourse, even discourse that they do not want to hear. Had he said something threatening, or gone on for 15 minutes, the situation would be a bit different.

He was not disrupting the forum by asking tough questions - he was participating in it. Whether or not he is an abrasive ass is not the question. The question is, does asking questions that someone doesn't like warrant suppression or tasering? I say no. I say let the dude state his ideas/questions, and then move on.

As to the Harry Potter bit, I think that's freaking hilarious. I wonder, was he arrested for holding a sign that said "Harry died?" Was he tasered?

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

Watch this Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE it helps if you turn down the sound and Just watch His actions.

At :15 you see the female officer attempt to escort him away from the Mic.

At :24 You see him start resisting and struggle with the Officers.

At :28 You see him start to Grand Stand and continue to resist.

At :43 You see him being Removed by the large black Officer.

At :53 You see him try to Struggle with the cops again and try to get away. All the while he is continuing to Disrupt the proceedings.

This was not a Free speech thing, It was a spoiled college kid that didnt want to follow the rules, It was a belligerent Kid that felt he was above the law and did not have to comply with the officers orders. Free speech has limitations.

This guy had a chance to ask his question. I have also heard that this guy had stated before the event that he was going to get arrested. Sounds like he planned this.

Ignore what he is saying for a minute and watch his actions. He left the officer’s very little choice and I think they showed great restraint in handling that situation. I know when I pulled a very similar stunt back in college, I ended up with quite a few stitches in my head. The cops didn’t have Tasers back then so the cops just pounded my head against the concrete a few times till I quit struggling with them and screaming for the News/TV camera to film this. It was effective. The taser is a much more humane way to deal with people resisting.

[Zipp0 1]

So, cops get to decide the level of political discourse US citizens enjoy in a public forum?

At a city council meeting I recently attended there were LOTS of passioate speeches, a few which ran on a bit long, and a few tough questions that made some in the room cringe. Nobody was arrested or tasered, and the crowd easily shut up anyone who crossed the line.

We defeated the attempt at rezoning that the contractor was pushing for, by the way. Had everyone went along nicely, I'd probably be looking for a new house right now.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

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So, cops get to decide the level of political discourse US citizens enjoy in a public forum?

They get to decide who is making a disturbance. Yes.

Watch the Video again and you see one of the event coordinators clearly make the "Cut him Off" Signal seen at the far right of the screen. At that point, The officers try to get him to leave. The officers did not decide when to cut him off, They were signaled that he had overspent his time. Kerry is heard saying, I want to answer that question. But the guy starts yelling and antagonizing the situation.

he was allowed to ask a question.. Instead he started making statements. When he was asked to get to his question he Replied" He got Two Hours, Now I am going to have my say" or something like that. It doesnt work that way. Ask your question and/or Move on. It was not a debate, IT was a question/Answer. Also there is a lot more to this than people are seeing. This same guy had already been making a disturbance according to many eyewitnesses. You are seeing the whole story here.

The Tasering had NOTHING to do with asking a question, It had to do with refusing to comply with the officers and resisting to the point that he had to be physically restrained.

[skycop 0]

I'm sure the organizers of the event decided when the discourse turned disruptive to the point of removal. Only then were the cops brought in or near him. The other post sort of sets the stage for events leading up to the "confrontation".

I've been present (in an official capacity) at numerous city council meetings that emotional issues were brought up and discussed. I think you are comparing apples and oranges, this meeting I'm sure had time constraints due to the stature and standing (argh.... I hate saying that about John Kerry) of the speaker.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[Zipp0 1]

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So, cops get to decide the level of political discourse US citizens enjoy in a public forum?

**They get to decide who is making a disturbance. Yes.**

Speaking into the microphone at a public forum is a disturbance? Maybe they thought so, but I would be willing to be many would disagree.

**Also there is a lot more to this than people are seeing. This same guy had already been making a disturbance according to many eyewitnesses. You are seeing the whole story here.**

I always hear that in these kind of stories. Sorry, but I only have this to go on. Plus, if the guy was truly creating a disturbance earlier, why did they wait until he was asking a question to remove him. Had he been shouting from the crowd, I think it would be OK to remove him. As it stands here, he was removed after a very short time at the mic, even though Kerry intended to answer him. It seems to me that the most important man in the room thought his question was just fine, and wanted to answer.

And the tasering was connected to the question. Had he been allowed to speak, he would never have been tasered. These officers will likely be suspended, at the least. A protest march is underway, and students are calling for a policy restricting taser use by campus police.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Ignore what he is saying for a minute and watch his actions. He left the officer’s very little choice and I think they showed great restraint in handling that situation.

I never said he was in the wrong for resisting. As was said earlier, you get arrested then fight it afterwards thru the system. However, I'm not sure why the cops stopped 10 feet shy of that hallway when they could have pulled him out there and closed the door.

If you see my post above, apparently he did have this planned and did disrupt earlier in the event.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[kelpdiver 2]

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The taser is a much more humane way to deal with people resisting.

Save the occasional fatality.

[Zipp0 1]

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The taser is a much more humane way to deal with people resisting.

Save the occasional fatality.

They thought the fire hose was a good way to disperse civil rights protesters not long ago. The taser will soon go the way of the fire hose.

I think the rule should be, if you are not holding some sort of weapon (brick or stick included), no taser.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Thanatos340 1]

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Speaking into the microphone at a public forum is a disturbance? Maybe they thought so, but I would be willing to be many would disagree.

No, Refusing to yeild the floor when asked is a disturbance.

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Plus, if the guy was truly creating a disturbance earlier, why did they wait until he was asking a question to remove him.

He was given every opportunity to ask his question. He was asked repeatedly to get to his question. He then became confrontational and said "He got two hours, I can take 2 minutes". The event organizers thought differently and signaled for him to be cut off. The officer tried to escort him away from the mic, He resisted and became belligerent.

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Had he been shouting from the crowd, I think it would be OK to remove him

Other witnesses say he was doing exactly that. Instead, they gave him a chance to ask his question.

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he was removed after a very short time at the mic

Because he refused to get to his question.

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And the tasering was connected to the question.

Bullshit. All he had to do is not resist and he would not have been tasered. He was warned several times that if he did not stop resisting he would be tasered. He kept struggling, he got tasered.

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Had he been allowed to speak, he would never have been tasered

he was allowed to speak. just not as long as he wanted. The tasering came only after he kept resisting the officers.

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A protest march is underway

A proper way to address the situation and express Free Speech.

[Thanatos340 1]

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I think the rule should be, if you are not holding some sort of weapon (brick or stick included), no taser.

So exactly how should an Officer that trying to contain a suspect that is fighting back? Just wrestle him till taps out?

What about a Small Male or Female Cop trying to arrest a 250LB linebacker that doesn’t cooperate? What do they do? If they cant taser them, that leaves the Billy Club or the Side Arm.

You ever tried to hold someone down and Cuff them when they do want to be Cuffed? (I haven’t either but I can imagine it is no easy task and very dangerous for the officer.)

The easy solution is if you dont want to be Tasered, Dont resist. Let the officer do what he needs to do and then file complaints after wards. Struggling with the cop is going to get you nowhere and only make any situation worse.

[rehmwa 2]

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if you are not holding some sort of weapon (brick or stick included), no taser.

You watch a lot of Chuck Norris movies?

Hollywood style -

crazy perp walks into the street - 3 cops have been chasing him - perp takes off his shirt and gives the Matrix "Let's go" gesture.

Cops play rock/paper/scissors to see who gets to take him on - man on man - barehanded. "winning" cops takes off gun, cuffs, belt - I mean, it has to be a 'fair fight'

I mean, it's really a personal thing with cops, not a job where they have to deal with whoever is out of control.

Wesley "you mean we stand here and beat each other to death like gentlemen? You have the advantage here"

Fessick "It's not my fault I was born bigger and stronger"

Or, the cop just shoots the gun out of their hands. That's another good one.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Zipp0 1]

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Speaking into the microphone at a public forum is a disturbance? Maybe they thought so, but I would be willing to be many would disagree.

No, Refusing to yeild the floor when asked is a disturbance.

Bullshit. By that logic we should be tasing Sean Penn when he goes over time at the Oscars and says something against the war.

Congressmen frequently go over time and continue, shouting over the gavel if necessary. Should we tase them?

In presidential debates, candidates go over time quite frequently, and don't yield the floor until they are done.

When we start tasing all of those people, maybe you have a point.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Zipp0 1]

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I think the rule should be, if you are not holding some sort of weapon (brick or stick included), no taser.

So exactly how should an Officer that trying to contain a suspect that is fighting back? Just wrestle him till taps out?

SOMEHOW the cops managed to arrest people before the taser was invented.

And there were 6 cops on this one student. Are you telling me that these cops are such huge pussies that 6 of them couldn't handle one student?

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[rehmwa 2]

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And there were 6 cops on this one student. Are you telling me that these cops are such huge pussies that 6 of them couldn't handle one student?

How dare they 'gang up' on this student? 6 on 1? how is that fair? 1 perp/1 cop, hand to hand - like nature intended

Maybe they should just discuss his feelings with him. really, he's just upset because of things Halliburton did..... they should understand.

Or, just shoot the microphone out of his hand.

that, and giving them Sv3n's wallet and girlfriend to placate him

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skycop 0]

The only way tazers will going away is if groups like Amnesty International get their way.
Tazers are and have been the most effective way to deal with non-compliant/resisting suspects.
The deaths associated with tazers can be attributed to the suspects physical condition (or lack thereof), varying types and levels of intoxicants, and other OUTSIDE factors. Every cop who uses a tazer gets tazed in training, there are no deaths associated with this training that I know of however there have been a few injuries from falling. Training injuries are nearly impossible to prevent if you train realistically.
Do tazers get abused, absolutely and there are remedies for that, I'm sure more than one person has won hefty judgments in reference to abuse cases. Also I'm sure cops have lost their jobs over tazer use. That goes with any tool applied when using force.

Situations too numerous to mention have been resolved with the use of a tazer, preventing officer and suspect injuries alike. The alternative is striking, OCing, beating, or as a last resort shooting a suspect as opposed to incapacitating a combative suspect with a tazer.

The six cops on one thing is laughable, numbers are used to prevent injuries. The last thing I want is a fair fight, I want to win without hurting me or the bad guy. You could not cuff a 100lb woman if she didn't really want you to, without causing an injury.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"