Student tazered at public Kerry speech

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag

Now, the kid was a bit over the top and grandstanding (no worse than what happens in this forum), the Skull and Bones part wasn't needed either as he had some solid questions before hand. I would have loved to hear the answer to his questions and Kerry said he was going to. But what happens after his questions is just.....was it warranted....was it legal? I wonder if that was campus security or Kerry's own security detail.


edit to add: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1606277730046267759&q=UF+student+tasered&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
I listed that video in a lower post, much easier to see what happens.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Rover 11]

God bless America???

2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 lefts do.

[Armour666 0]

there is another vido they were the cops are sayign he is being charged for inciting a riot.

http://video.nbc6.net/player/?id=157250

He goes a littly crazy saying they were going to kill him and for other to be witnes that he was taken and asked other to come with them to make shure they don't kill him. I think he has a few issue.

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

I can see them being upset if he approached the mic in hysterics, but he was structuring a layered question and not trying to incite the crowd. Once he was being detained without provocation he flipped his lid. It was a public assembly and he wasn't doing anything wrong at the time other than putting the speaker on the spot, which is part of the risk of doing a Q/A session.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[willard 0]

Kind of obvious that he was disrupting the forum by trying to make a political speach instead of just asking his questions. Also obvious that the security people first tried to just move him away from the podium, then he resisted and that's when things turned ugly. Hard to tell exactly what happened from the shaky video, but from his yelling and refusing to leave the security poeple must have felt he posed a significant risk not only to Kerry but to others as well.
Free speech does not include the right to disrupt a peaceful forum by taking over the microphone.
In short....I don't feel a bit of sympathy for the little shithead.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1606277730046267759&q=UF+student+tasered&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

After watching that view of it the student asks "what did I do" and I think I hear the cops say "you were acting like an ass"

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[willard 0]

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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1606277730046267759&q=UF+student+tasered&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

After watching that view of it the student asks "what did I do" and I think I hear the cops say "you were acting like an ass"

You think you hear them say that? That's a pretty big assumption considering the number of people in the room, I'm sure not all of whom wanted to listen to the kid rant and rave. Are you sure that's what you heard? Are you sure it was a cop?

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1606277730046267759&q=UF+student+tasered&total=3&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

After watching that view of it the student asks "what did I do" and I think I hear the cops say "you were acting like an ass"

You think you hear them say that? That's a pretty big assumption considering the number of people in the room, I'm sure not all of whom wanted to listen to the kid rant and rave. Are you sure that's what you heard? Are you sure it was a cop?

Wasn't pulling him off the mic done by an assumption? I didn't see him disrupting and Kerry said he was going to answer his questions. Disruption would have meant standing up screaming these things during the session. Instead he waited in line, was most likely checked out by security before hand and was presented a time to ask questions. Just because they were controversial questions doesn't mean they were wrong to ask or he was doing something worthy of being arrested.

Also, the bolded part above answers your question. I didn't say "I did hear" and thus it leaves room for dicussion that they didn't say it.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[masterblaster72 0]

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqAVvlyVbag

Now, the kid was a bit over the top and grandstanding (no worse than what happens in this forum), the Skull and Bones part wasn't needed either as he had some solid questions before hand. I would have loved to hear the answer to his questions and Kerry said he was going to. But what happens after his questions is just.....was it warranted....was it legal? I wonder if that was campus security or Kerry's own security detail.

This kid had the right idea but he executed it *very* poorly. He could have simply asked the first question and gotten an answer, followed it up with another, and if he had the room, perhaps another. There was no need to ambush him with three tough questions in a row. I suppose the kid was a bit nervous.

Also, I disagree with you about the Skull and Bones question. IMHO that is a very legitimate question, one that mainstream journalists don't have the balls to hold these politicians' feet to the fire on. Reason why it is a good question is because these are public servants we are talking about -- their allegiance should be to their constituencies, not some black-box group of establishment elites.

Also, maybe I'm missing something, but why was this kid arrested in the first place -- for not letting Mr. Kerry get a word in? I can understand the tasering (he was resisting arrest once they did arrest him), I'm just missing the reason why they arrested him in the first place.

I also found this video a bit entertaining -- I got a chuckle out of his yelling in the latter part of the video.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[willard 0]

Kerry said he would answer the kids questions. The problem is, the kid would not ask his questions, only kept up with his political grandstanding. He was given ample opportunity to ask his questions but chose to use his time to run off on a tangent. Then, like a little child, he whined when they told him to ask his questions or step down.
These Q&A forums have procedures to ensure they run smoothly and people have the best chance of getting to ask their questions. When he started taking many times the normal amount of time given a person he was trampling on others rights to be heard. If you didn't notice there were a lot of other people there. It's a safe bet many had questions they wanted to ask and were denied the chance even if the kid had not been tazed.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Kerry said he would answer the kids questions. The problem is, the kid would not ask his questions,

You may want to watch it again. I heard several questions: why did he pull out of the election while it was still contested, why doesn't he push for Bush to be impeached, is he in Skull and Bones and he was about to ask his last question when they pulled him off the mic.

I for one would be very interested to hear the response to each of those questions.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[willard 0]

I watched it twice, that was enough, thank you.
Asking a question includes giving the person a chance to respond. The kid would not give up the floor. He was trying to take over the forum and security folk had no choice but to remove him from the microphone, then from the room when he became belligerent. After that it's anyones guess since the video shows nothing and the sound tells us little.

[Armour666 0]

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I can see them being upset if he approached the mic in hysterics, but he was structuring a layered question and not trying to incite the crowd. Once he was being detained without provocation he flipped his lid. It was a public assembly and he wasn't doing anything wrong at the time other than putting the speaker on the spot, which is part of the risk of doing a Q/A session.

yes it apears some on from the school made the call to cut the kid short but there is more to this kid espicaly the end where he thinks he is going to be offed in a consperice. He was heading in the right direction but very poor in present the questions. Would have been an intresting to hear the responce.

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[Thanatos340 1]

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he is being charged for inciting a riot

Ugly Charge. I was arrested for Inciting to Riot in 1988. $50,000 Bail and was facing 5 years in prison for Less than what that guy did. If he gets a reasonable lawyer he can get it dropped to Disorderly Conduct.

He was out of line and did not comply with the officers requests. Most people dont realize that you do NOT have the right to argue with a Cop (sad but true). You MUST do what they ask you to do or get arrested. I have found this to be true waaaay too many times in my life. He was causing a disturbance. Freedom of speech has limitations especially in a forum such as that.

He continued to resist and failed repeatedly to comply with the officer’s requests. They finally subdued him. He was unstable and was disrupting the event. He was dealt with accordingly.

The Inciting to Riot will not stick but you bet he is now on a watch list and will have alot of trouble getting into future events.

Lesson: If the cop tell you to leave, You leave. You can file a complaint, Goto the local News, write a letter to whoever you want about it.. But do NOT scream "Dont touch me".. They can touch you and no matter how many times you yell "I am not resisting", Unless you are doing what they ask right then and there.. You are resisting. They MUST take whatever means available to them to get control of the situation.

If he would have remained calm and cooperative it appears that Kerry was willing to hear him out and answer his questions. He did not remain calm and cooperative.

[willard 0]

Bingo! Everything that happened was a result of the kids actions, actions that he chose.

[skycop 0]

Exactly,
The kid actively resisted and was dealt with accordingly.
I'm sure the reason he was arrested was his grandstanding and not letting Mr. Kerry answer. At some point order has to be restored to the event. I'm no fan of John Kerry but this kid was WAY over the top.
I liked his frat-boy statement "don't taze me bro'".
All he had to do was comply initially and there would have been no problem.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[willard 0]

Why is it so hard for people to understand that once the police/security ask you to move, you will move. Whether it is under your own power or theirs is up to you.

BTW, I don't like Kerry either, but this kid was way out of line.

[skycop 0]

There is a clearer video I saw on liveleak, it shows the kid ACTIVELY resisting to the point he had to be tackled. After the tackle he continued and was tazed.
Using force is never pretty, and on the other video Tucker Carlson and some other reporter type start dissing the cops. I'm sure Tucker Carlson has never had to fight anyone. Once the fight starts cops fight to win period, that is how we go home at night.
I'm not being overly dramatic, we have to gain control of situations as soon as possible. I've seen some really silly situations get out of control, then alot more force has to be used on more people.
I had more questions when the video came out of the kid in the UCLA library that got tazed. IMHO passive resistance does not require tazer use. In this case the kid was actively resisting and the use was appropriate, no how bad it looks to the average person.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[kelpdiver 2]

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Kerry said he would answer the kids questions. The problem is, the kid would not ask his questions, only kept up with his political grandstanding. He was given ample opportunity to ask his questions but chose to use his time to run off on a tangent.

sounds like the typical Senator during a congressional hearing.

[nigel99 574]

Jeez America home of the brave and free

What a freaking joke, it appears from the video that the guy was just asking a long question - you don't really hear him being told to shut up...

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Thanatos340 1]

The guy was CLEARLY struggling with Officers. He was too busy trying to get away and create a scene and was completely uncooperative with the Officers.

Had he followed the officers instructions, He would not have been tazered and Kerry Sounded like he wanted to answer the Question.

That guy reminded me of the Kids I see throwing temper tantrums in restaurants and other public places only to be appeased by their parents. That approach does not work with cops. The more I watch that video, the more I think that guy actually got less than he deserved.

[nigel99 574]

I don't know that I entirely agree with you. Personally it would scare the crap out of me if I was suddenly grabbed by police. There was another shorter but clearer video on youtube, and it appears that the guy get a little carried away stepping away from the mic and gesturing, but not really approaching anyone, more like your average tele-evangelist!

It appears that he got extremely distressed and the police made the situation worse (the female copper screaming in his ear, could not have had a calming effect).

I would really like to hear the opinion of a practicing copper (Scoop?) - because I thought crowd control/disruption was generally to de-escalate situations. Granted there are things like background checks etc, so I might be defending a known arsonist/GBH person here!

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Thanatos340 1]

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Personally it would scare the crap out of me if I was suddenly grabbed by police.

If a Cop Grabs you, Pulling away and screaming "What did I do?" is absolutely the wrong way to handle the situation. You are either cooperating with the officers (Complying with thier requests or you are Resisting (Not Complying with their requests). Arguing with the COp is not going to get you anywhere. Screaming and pulling away from a Cop is only going to escalate the situation.

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and it appears that the guy get a little carried away stepping away from the mic and gesturing

it wasn’t the Mic he was stepping away from, It was the Cops that he was trying to get away from.

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It appears that he got extremely distressed and the police made the situation worse

I agree the cops let it go on way too long. They should have Tasered him sooner.

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could not have had a calming effect

Their job is NOT to calm him, It is to get the situation under control quickly as possible. He was resisting and not doing what the officers instructed him to do. He continued to resist so was tasered.

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I thought crowd control/disruption was generally to de-escalate situations

No, the goal is to bring the situation under control.

Freedom of Speech does NOT include the right to disrupt an assembly. He was given time to ask a question, He went over his allotted time and refused to give up the Mic. Had he not reacted like he did, IT did sound as if Kerry was completely willing to answer his question. It was HIS behavior that brought about this action.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

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Had he followed the officers instructions, He would not have been tazered and Kerry Sounded like he wanted to answer the Question.

Why was he pulled from the mic? Was he given a warning? Were there rules established before hand? This is what I am trying to get at. He did reactly poorly after being yanked to the back of the room. But was there reason to even do that in the first place?

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[NCclimber 0]

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Had he followed the officers instructions, He would not have been tazered and Kerry Sounded like he wanted to answer the Question.

Why was he pulled from the mic? Was he given a warning? Were there rules established before hand? This is what I am trying to get at. He did reactly poorly after being yanked to the back of the room. But was there reason to even do that in the first place?

He was acting like an ass!

That whole "what did I do?" after repeatedly resisting the police is pretty laughable.

This guy is 21, which means he's probably a rising senior, which means he's probably got a good idea as to what kind of behavior is appropriate and what is not.

His "playing dumb" act just doesn't cut it.