Clinton Health Care....Part II

[Lindsey 0]

People get sick. Some people bring it on themselves. Some people don't. As unfortunate as it is that some people, without a payment source, are stricken with catastrophic disease by no fault of their own, is the fact that there are other people who have health insurance and behave in very self-destructive ways and when it's time to save their asses, the insurance companies foot the bill. Those people are as responsible for rising health-care costs as are the people who expect the rest of us to foot their bill when things go bad.

linz

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A conservative is just a liberal who's been mugged. A liberal is just a conservative who's been to jail

[Gawain 0]

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Anybody remember $150 hammers and a toilet seats?

That wasn't what they really paid though...that money was riding to fund something else. What, I have no idea.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Gravitymaster 0]

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You can't choose not to be sick.

Actually, you can. Exercise, healthy diet, don't smoke, moderation in alcohol consumption, stay away from crowds.

Wait until the cost of Hillarycare doubles, and triples and the Govt. decides to start mandating healthy lifestyles.

Mandatory login 30 minutes of exercise a day at a govt. gym.

Review of nutrition choices by govt. "Food Card."

Mandatory blood tests to check for illegal drug use.

Govt. approval to have children.

Pre-birth DNA and Genetic evaluation and a requirement to abort any child which might put stress on the system.

Is this really where we want to go?

[billvon 3,111]

>Yes, I will end up paying for it.

No, often you will not - and that's the problem. (The generic you, not you specifically.) People use the ER to get free medical care. Go to the ER, give em a fake name, and they'll take care of you.

Who pays for that? You and I, of course, through our taxes (hospital bailouts) our insurance rates (if they manage to bill your insurance company somehow) and through shoddy care (gotta see 30 patients a day instead of 20 if only 2 out of 3 will pay.)

>but requiring me to participate in something when my
>good decisions/sacrifices/planning presents better options for me -
>well I just have a problem with that

You must REALLY hate the police, fire departments and military then!

[Royd 0]

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You can't choose not to be sick.

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Actually, you can. Exercise, healthy diet, don't smoke, moderation in alcohol consumption, stay away from crowds.

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Wait until the cost of Hillarycare doubles, and triples and the Govt. decides to start mandating healthy lifestyles.

Mandatory login 30 minutes of exercise a day at a govt. gym.

Review of nutrition choices by govt. "Food Card."

Mandatory blood tests to check for illegal drug use.

Govt. approval to have children.

Pre-birth DNA and Genetic evaluation and a requirement to abort any child which might put stress on the system.

Is this really where we want to go?

Instead of health care, maybe they could take over funeral expenses. After all, the govt. has plenty of public land. Let the chips fall where they may, only the strong survive, that sort of thing.

In the end, if you are responsible for your own wellness or misery, wouldn't you make just a little bit more effort?

[Gravitymaster 0]

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Instead of health care, maybe they could take over funeral expenses. After all, the govt. has plenty of public land. Let the chips fall where they may, only the strong survive, that sort of thing.

In the end, if you are responsible for your own wellness or misery, wouldn't you make just a little bit more effort?

Drip...drip...drip...

That really is the main issue. The Govt. takeover of personal responsibility beginning with FDR and institutionalized by LBJ has now infested all of society. The only differences anymore between Conservatives and Liberals is the rate the disease spreds.

Drip...drip...drip...

How much longer will it be until we just work for the Govt and the Govt. decides who gets what benefits such as the size of the home you are allowed to live in, what car you are allowed to drive, which foods you are allowed to eat?

Drip...drip...drip..

It has taken 2 generations so far, but the ideological society Karl Marx envisioned is less than 1 more generation from fulfillment.

[Amazon 7]

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That really is the main issue. The Govt. takeover of personal responsibility beginning with FDR and institutionalized by LBJ has now infested all of society. The only differences anymore between Conservatives and Liberals is the rate the disease spreds

Ok ok we get it......government sucks.. and you Republicans did such a bangup job of proving it over the last 6 years.

At least under Clinton it was Monica who was sucking and not the whole administration.

[Rookie120 0]

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Ok ok we get it......government sucks.. and you Republicans did such a bangup job of proving it over the last 6 years.

At least under Clinton it was Monica who was sucking and not the whole administration.

Nowhere did he say it was a R vs D thing. The BS is coming from both sides.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[tkhayes 348]

half full half empty.

Is the government 'taking over you life' if they provide health care? Or are they offering a service that appears to be in demand by the people? (govt BY the people FOR the people)

The libertarians seem to believe every man for himself. Not the country I want to live in. At the very least, AND for the benefit of the country and society as a whole, the government should:
- Feed the people (ensure that they are fed)
- Educate the people (ensure that they are educated)
- take care of the people (i.e. health care)

after all the government is supposed to be a representation of what the people want and provide that for the people.

Health Care si coming in this country eventually - it is just a matter of time. Almost every civilized country in the world has it already, and none of them are complaining about it. (other than perhaps the cost), but no one complains when they are sick and have to go to the doctor or hospital.

Even in Canada, people complain about it, but offer to take it away? Not a chance.

[freethefly 6]

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after all the government is supposed to be a representation of what the people want and provide that for the people.

It seems that a good number of people have forgotten this obscured point,
The same people will never question the tremendous waste of OUR tax dollars waging war and stuffing the pockets of war profiteers but... suggest that OUR money be used to help those who have fallen right here in the US and suddenly you're an unamerican commie-pinko.
I'd much rather my tax dollars stay here and help Americans who need a hand up instead of giving it to countries who have the hand extended for more of OUR money.
Funny how those on this board who are the most vocal about those without insurance are also the most vocal against a plan designed to provide near everyone with insurance

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[rehmwa 2]

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That is so obviously silly it doesn't warrant a rebuttal.

Funny, I feel the same about a lot of your responses.

How can you have feelings about responses when we are wasting all that money in Iraq?

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Gravitymaster 0]

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That is so obviously silly it doesn't warrant a rebuttal.

Funny, I feel the same about a lot of your responses.

How can you have feelings about responses when we are wasting all that money in Iraq?

If it wasn't for the War for Oil, we could have thrown another $10 trillion into the War on Poverty.

[rehmwa 2]

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That is so obviously silly it doesn't warrant a rebuttal.

Funny, I feel the same about a lot of your responses.

How can you have feelings about responses when we are wasting all that money in Iraq?

If it wasn't for the War for Oil, we could have thrown another $10 trillion into the War on Poverty.

I was mocking that conversation. But if you want a response...

"If it wasn't for the War for Oil, we could have had more tax cuts. Which will help in the war on poverty MUCH more than the government pissing it away on futile political gestures in order to buy votes from impoverished people."

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Gravitymaster 0]

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That is so obviously silly it doesn't warrant a rebuttal.

Funny, I feel the same about a lot of your responses.

How can you have feelings about responses when we are wasting all that money in Iraq?

If it wasn't for the War for Oil, we could have thrown another $10 trillion into the War on Poverty.

I was mocking that conversation. But if you want a response...

"If it wasn't for the War for Oil, we could have had more tax cuts. Which will help in the war on poverty MUCH more than the government pissing it away on futile political gestures in order to buy votes from impoverished people."

I got that, I was mocking your comment.

Tax cuts can only result when we have been overcharged to begin with. Somehow people view tax surpluses as "our money" once the govt. gets their hands on it.

We may as well just toss all our income into a giant govt. pool and allow the govt. to send us a check based on what the politicians, with their infinite wisdom, decide we need to live on and keep the rest to spend on whatever the people demand.

I think we should all demand the govt. buy us a new Lexus every year and furnish our homes with the Martha Stewart Designer Collection Furniture. This would go a long way to improving national unity and feelings of togetherness. Kumbya, Comrade!!

[Gravitymaster 0]

If you want others to pay for your healthcare, why don't you just walk down the street and knock on your neighbors doors and ask them to contribute? Since you are convinced most Americans want to pay for you, I would imagine it would only take knocking on a few doors to come up with the monthly premium.

[tkhayes 348]

that is simply a silly way to look at it. my 'neighbors' would be paying for my health care - and they would be paying for theirs too, and I would be paying for theirs as well, everyone would be paying through the taxation system to cover everyone.

I already PAY dearly for my health insurance, which by the way just went up by 21% for no apparent reason other than a price increase.

I HAVE health insurance. I am arguing for all those that do not.

Since we already spend pretty much twice as much per capita on a health system that ranks us at 30+ something int he world, OBVIOUSLY some other countries have figured out how to do it well at a lower price.

So maybe we should just copy some other system, provide coverage for EVERYONE and at the same time lower the costs per capita.

sounds sensible to me - but no- we would have to do it the "Proper American Way"

[Amazon 7]

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sounds sensible to me - but no- we would have to do it the "Proper American Way"

Sound like you dont care for the I GOT MINE and I OWE you NUTHIN crowd..

A society is judged on how it treats its least fortunate citizens.

Dont have or want kids... I AINT PAYIN FOR EDUCATION

Have a good job you got from getting a good education... I AM NOT PAYING FOR "THOSE" POEPLE...

ETC ETC ETC

[tkhayes 348]

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Sound like you dont care for the I GOT MINE and I OWE you NUTHIN crowd..

right you are, as I stated in my first post - 'every man for himself' is not a way to run a country, it's a way to run an anarchy

[NCclimber 0]

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Sound like you dont care for the I GOT MINE and I OWE you NUTHIN crowd..

right you are, as I stated in my first post - 'every man for himself' is not a way to run a country, it's a way to run an anarchy

It's a miracle we survived for over 230 years!!! without universal healthcare.

Miraculous!

[rehmwa 2]

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I got that, I was mocking your comment.

I thought it was an odd comment from you. I see now that you were joining in on the tasty, and fire roasted mockery that I started.

THANKS

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Butters 0]

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Sound like you dont care for the I GOT MINE and I OWE you NUTHIN crowd..

A society is judged on how it treats its least fortunate citizens.

Dont have or want kids... I AINT PAYIN FOR EDUCATION

Have a good job you got from getting a good education... I AM NOT PAYING FOR "THOSE" POEPLE...

ETC ETC ETC

Bitch and complain but when push comes to shove ... the U.S.A. treats its least fortunate citizens (and non-citizens) well compared to the rest of the world. More people are arriving than departing for a reason.

Can the U.S.A. do better? Yes. How can the U.S.A. do better? To start, by citizens asking not what their country can do for them but asking what they can do for their country. How many resources are wasted because people don't eat healthy, exercise, etc...?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[Amazon 7]

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Bitch and complain but when push comes to shove ... the U.S.A. treats its least fortunate citizens (and non-citizens) well compared to the rest of the world.

You can find PLENTY of people who would argue that with you.... you know.. the ones who die in hospitals waiting for any care at all...or the ones who get dumped on the city hospital.. and die on the way... or the rest of us who have to foot the bill for all the people who cant afford insurance and their companies who will not make it part of their benefits package... and use the ER as their primary care giver.

A little bit of preventative medicine.. just basic stuff would solve a whole lot of problems.. and that would include a doctor telling the low income types that Mac and Cheese all the ime is going to have an effect on their family.

[goofyjumper 0]

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WE HAVE SOCIALIZED HEALTH CARE NOW. That's the point. The question is - how do we best implement it?

I agree -- somehow I don't think healthcare run by the government will be the best way. They don't seem to be cost effective in many other avenues.

I admit, I'm not sure what the answer is, but I don't want to turn over something as important as HC to the government. I might as well let my 5 year old granddaughter pay my bills. That would be as fiscally responsible as allowing the governemnet be in charge. IMHO

Anybody remember $150 hammers and a toilet seats?

You know, I am sick of people stating that having the government take over health care is a bad thing. I was in the militray for 6 years and still to this day we had the best doctors, the best equipment, and almost any type of coverage (including plastic surgery). Everyone thinks that having the government take over is going to give us shitty health care. What do you think HMO's do? They are worse than the government in the fact that most of them will not pay for your bills if you did not go to their doctor!

Having universal health care is not a bad thing. People use the argument that taxes will go up. Well, they will, but if you pay for health insurance already then it will just balance pretty even.

I pay $100 a paycheck for my crappy health coverage (and that is low compared to others with children). If you are paying that much now, having universal health care will take those insurance premium aways. So it will probably stay about the same. But now at least, everyone can get taken care of.

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I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[Butters 0]

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You can find PLENTY of people who would argue that with you.... you know.. the ones who die in hospitals waiting for any care at all...or the ones who get dumped on the city hospital.. and die on the way... or the rest of us who have to foot the bill for all the people who cant afford insurance and their companies who will not make it part of their benefits package... and use the ER as their primary care giver.

Tell those people to visit the rest of the world. The places that don't have doctors (or enough doctors), hospitals, etc... (maybe then they will stop being so pessimistic and start being more optimistic).

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A little bit of preventative medicine.. just basic stuff would solve a whole lot of problems.. and that would include a doctor telling the low income types that Mac and Cheese all the ime is going to have an effect on their family.

Once again ... How can the U.S.A. do better? To start, by citizens asking not what their country can do for them but asking what they can do for their country. How many resources are wasted because people don't eat healthy, exercise, etc...?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[rehmwa 2]

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if you pay for health insurance already then it will just balance pretty even

I thinks that's what is in debate. I'd like to see the numbers before jumping to that conclusion.

You assumption might just break the bank.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants