Clinton Health Care....Part II

[tkhayes 348]

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It's a miracle we survived for over 230 years!!! without universal healthcare.

We're not talking about the 'survival' of the country - we are talking about improving the one we live in for everyone involved.

We also survived 100+ years without water and sewer - should we take that away because taxes pay for it?

try a realistic argument. "We have always done it that way" is not a valid reason to do or NOT do anything.

[tkhayes 348]

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If simply covering people who can't afford insurance was the real issue

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I think that IS the real issue. And we already have a system in place for those who cannot afford the coverage.

You pretty much have to bankrupt yourself to qualify. And they already DO analyze your life and see what you can afford. And you might lose your house or car or whatever.

Do you honestly believe that someone who breaks an ankle in an accident, cannot afford $600/month for insurance, therefore has no coverage, deserves to be sent to the poorhouse potentially for years because they cannot come up with $25,000 for the hospital bills?

The real issue is universal healthcare for ALL, not some - and that includes those who cannot afford.

[steveorino 7]

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My experience with the military health care system was also very good, specific to Walter Reed Army Medical Center.

Okay, perhaps our military hospital care is good. How is the VA?

steveOrino

[steveorino 7]

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You know, I am sick of people stating that having the government take over health care is a bad thing. I was in the militray for 6 years and still to this day we had the best doctors, the best equipment, and almost any type of coverage (including plastic surgery).

Let me just say my experience with military health care wasn't as good as yours. I don't trust the government to do anything effeciently when it comes to $

Why, were you a grunt?

No, Special Forces medic

steveOrino

[Butters 0]

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No, tax cuts can result when our leaders decide that the next few generations can pay for our spending.

Dont you know... most of the Administration believes that they will already be RAPTURED OUT... so they will not have to pay anything back.

All of the athiests and non-true believers who are LEFT BEHIND will have to pay at least while the Anti-Christ is running things till Armegeddon happens.

Hey, they may be right, with the way they are spending they may not bring about the rapture but they may bring about the apocalypse. Eventually someone will want the U.S.A. to pay them back but how will they make the U.S.A. pay them back ...

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[freethefly 6]

I got to go back to the doctor last week. Ten vials of blood to check everything. A bit expensive but, vital. I'm paying for it. So is everyone else who pay taxes. One way or another it gets paid. Personaly, I'm glad that the dems push for healthcare. Thanks to the dems, I got to go to the doctor and will again in 5 weeks. Thanks to the republicans, I went 2 years without. If I go back on meds, everyone who pays taxes will pay for it. I pay taxes therefore, I too will be chipping in.
From reading over the last few months on the health threads at this board, I know there are a few who will explode at the thought that I am using their tax dollars for my healthcare. Well, I don't give a damn. They're my dollars too. I am just happy to be back in care of a doctor

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[tkhayes 348]

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Hey, they may be right, with the way they are spending they may not bring about the rapture but they may bring about the apocalypse. Eventually someone will want the U.S.A. to pay them back but how will they make the U.S.A. pay them back ...

It is true that if you owe the bank $1000, then you are in trouble, but if you owe them $10,000,000, they THEY are the ones that are in trouble.

While that may be true of the USA, I think it is still a poor financial strategy.

The goods news is that the dolar is in the toilet, so USA made goods should sell pretty well. - But too bad we shipped most of the manufacturing jobs to China - so much for that idea.....

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Hey, they may be right, with the way they are spending they may not bring about the rapture but they may bring about the apocalypse. Eventually someone will want the U.S.A. to pay them back but how will they make the U.S.A. pay them back ...

It is true that if you owe the bank $1000, then you are in trouble, but if you owe them $10,000,000, they THEY are the ones that are in trouble.

While that may be true of the USA, I think it is still a poor financial strategy.

The goods news is that the dolar is in the toilet, so USA made goods should sell pretty well. - But too bad we shipped most of the manufacturing jobs to China - so much for that idea.....

American auto workers unwilling to work for $150 a month and less skilled workers unavailable for a couple bucks a day made that an inevitability we're stuck with.

[NCclimber 0]

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It's a miracle we survived for over 230 years!!! without universal healthcare.

We're not talking about the 'survival' of the country - we are talking about improving the one we live in for everyone involved.

We also survived 100+ years without water and sewer - should we take that away because taxes pay for it?

try a realistic argument. "We have always done it that way" is not a valid reason to do or NOT do anything.

A realistic argument? You mean like claiming a society that promotes individual responsibility is anarchy????

[tkhayes 348]

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A realistic argument? You mean like claiming a society that promotes individual responsibility is anarchy????

That's NOT what I said - I said "every man for himself" is anarchy - which it is.

Promoting individual responsibility still applies when socialized medicine is in place - i.e. people understands that if they abuse the system, and go to the doctor every time they sneeze, then it will drive up costs and increase taxes. That would appear to promote individual responsibility would it not?

so again, try a realistic argument.

[NCclimber 0]

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Promoting individual responsibility still applies when socialized medicine is in place - i.e. people understands that if they abuse the system, and go to the doctor every time they sneeze, then it will drive up costs and increase taxes. That would appear to promote individual responsibility would it not?

so again, try a realistic argument.

Do you think it's realistic to expect individuals, whos healthcare costs are fixed, to show restraint in seeking medical care, out of concern for the total cost to society?

[tkhayes 348]

it's happening already in other countries.

Some people abuse the system, some do not use it at all, most use it 'normally'

The system we have in the USA today:
Some people abuse the system, some do not use it at all, most use it 'normally'

I would suggest that the way the system is used and abused would not change that significantly.

Warren Zevon did not go to the doctor for 23 years even though he could obviously afford it. I do not like doctors that much, so I only go when I need to - even though I have health insurance to cover it.

Some people sneeze and then demand a prescription from their doctor.

It was the same in Canada when I lived there. My patterns of visiting a doctor have not really changed.

I actually had, and consciously think about "individual responsibility' in both systems. i.e. here I am afraid if I use it, my rates will go up, which they do anyway, but I still try to reduce my expenditures in the system.

In Canada, i did not go to the doctor unless I really needed to - i.e. a broken finger and I went - but a cold? No way.

so yes, it is totally realistic to think that people have individual responsibility, because I am the living example of it. And I doubt that I am the only person in the world (or the USA) with that perspective.