"Sicko", revisited

[airtwardo 7]

there is no such thing as a $15k car that can go 230 mph and get 40mpg...

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ANY car can do that....if ya drive it off a cliff, which is what socialized medicine would do to the health system in the US.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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[CanuckInUSA 0]

I said it before and I will say it again. The USA needs to move closer to Canada's medical model and Canada needs to move closer to the USA's medical model. Both systems are broken if you ask me.

Up here in our so called superior socialistic society (that's how Canadians view themselves in the world order ... they view themselves as the superior society for the entire planet), outside of lining up at some clinic and waiting hours and hours and hours for some person (who plays a doctor on TV) to see me for five minutes and pass me on back into the waiting queue to repeat the process, I CAN NOT FIND A DOCTOR who I could call a general practioner and who can pay attention to the needs I may have as a patient. No I hope I die a sudden death up here in this over taxed superior society of ours, since I know I will waste away waiting in the queues if I ever get sick.

Superior society my ass.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[sv3n 0]

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Stating that Cuba's health system is worse than ours when the report says so is like stating the obvious. But then trying to argue that for that reason socialized medicine sucks is just plain stupid as those systems above our 37th place are socialized medicine.

Cuba's program may be the best in the world - if that's what you are looking for. That is, a system that provides some of the best care in the world for foreigners with money or for the governmental elite and lets the citizens wither on the vine.

What's the best car in the world? What's the best dinner entree in the world? What is the best national park? What is the best name for a boy? What is the best television show?

What is the best healthcare system? You are arguing your idea of the "best." As is WHO. And because of YOUR belief, everybody should be forced into it.

I have my beliefs, too. Socialized health care? Fine, but let me opt out of it. It's not best for me. But I DO know that there is no such thing as a $15k car that can go 230 mph and get 40mpg, which is the functional equivalent of what people want from healthcare. It can't happen.

Who seems to rank the healthcare systems by what's best for everybody, not just the priviledged few...........which is the way it should be. Healthcare is something everybody should have, not just those that are "special" enough.

It's a great response though, "let's not even try because I don't think it could work". I bet people heard that a lot when some "crazy" people were talking about giving england a letter called the Declaration of Independence.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[sv3n 0]

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I said it before and I will say it again. The USA needs to move closer to Canada's medical model and Canada needs to move closer to the USA's medical model. Both systems are broken if you ask me.

Up here in our so called superior socialistic society (that's how Canadians view themselves in the world order ... they view themselves as the superior society for the entire planet), outside of lining up at some clinic and waiting hours and hours and hours for some person (who plays a doctor on TV) to see me for five minutes and pass me on back into the waiting queue to repeat the process, I CAN NOT FIND A DOCTOR who I could call a general practioner and who can pay attention to the needs I may have as a patient. No I hope I die a sudden death up here in this over taxed superior society of ours, since I know I will waste away waiting in the queues if I ever get sick.

Superior society my ass.

That's interesting. The last person that I talked about Canada was a friend's cousin, who moved there from the US. And she said she was more than happy with it. She loved the comfort of being able to go to the doctor is she needed to....regardless of whatever is going on financially. Then again Canada is ranked 30th on the list.....for whatever that counts.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[1969912 0]

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Who seems to rank the healthcare systems by what's best for everybody,....

Unless you're homeless or an illegal immigrant

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[sv3n 0]

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Who seems to rank the healthcare systems by what's best for everybody,....

Unless you're homeless or an illegal immigrant

Illegal immigrants? So you're saying the US should pay for healthcare for everybody, even those that aren't supposed to be here? Good luck with that.....we can't even manage to budget enough so our own people are getting healthcare.

The homeless thing is sad though......I'm glad that the doctor's without borders people are helping them out. Then again I don't live in Japan, so I don't know the exact circumstances either. But it's still sad.

I wonder why they don't help out in the US....I'm sure they could use the help in New Orleans or any of the other 18,000 people that died last year due to not being able to afford healthcare?

...and you're in violation of your face!

[1969912 0]

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I wonder why they don't help out in the US....

Because the US doesn't NEED the help. The homeless and the illegals ARE getting healthcare here. Most ER's cannot, as a matter of law, turn anyone away. Apparently that is not the case in other countries.

Remember the influx into the US of refugees from (socialist/communist) Vietnam in the late 70's? Did they croak in massive numbers due to lack of health care services? Nope. Did the US have to rely on outside assistance to help them? I don't know for certain, but I really doubt it. The SE Asian immigrants and their offspring are now some of the brightest, most hardworking, and successful Americans.

"Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ."
-NickDG

[lawrocket 3]

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Who seems to rank the healthcare systems by what's best for everybody, not just the priviledged few

No. And this time follow the bouncing ball.

WHO RANKS HE HEALTHCARE SYSTEMS BY WHAT THEY THINK IS BEST FOR EVERYBODY.

However, WHO does NOT take into consideration what is BEST for anybody but themselves.

It is NOT best for me. It is NOT the best for MOST.

It simply is a relfection of what THEY think is fair and what THEY think is the PROPER role of government.

And what THEY think may be AGREEABLE to MANY people. But it is NOT agreeable to ME and would serve the purpose of FUCKING ME AND MY FAMILY OVER ROYALLY by eliminating the CHOICES and QUALITY and SPEED that I have paid for.

And about privileges, guess what - privileges come at a price. And I PAY for the privilege of high-quality health care. IT means I drive a shitty car. And i means I don't skydive or golf or go out to restaurants or any of the other things the regular person does. I have had one vacation in the last four years. I could have taken more, but I figured that my family's health insurance, house payments, etc., were a bit more important.

We ALL live privileged lives. But the PRIVILEGES are chosen by us all. I choose HEALTHCARE as my privilege over golf and skydiving and barhopping and nice cars and 2000 dollar suits and dinners at nice restaurants.

And because of that I'm privileged? Well, that is your impression. But I prefer not to leave it to OTHERS to tell me what I can and cannot receive. I made my choice that I will work my ass off everyday so that I can get the health care I want - and not what some bureaucrat tells me is the "best" for everyone.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[sv3n 0]

So then how do 18,000+ people die last year because they cannot afford healthcare if we don't turn people away?

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I wonder why they don't help out in the US....

Because the US doesn't NEED the help. The homeless and the illegals ARE getting healthcare here. Most ER's cannot, as a matter of law, turn anyone away. Apparently that is not the case in other countries.

Remember the influx into the US of refugees from (socialist/communist) Vietnam in the late 70's? Did they croak in massive numbers due to lack of health care services? Nope. Did the US have to rely on outside assistance to help them? I don't know for certain, but I really doubt it. The SE Asian immigrants and their offspring are now some of the brightest, most hardworking, and successful Americans.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[lawrocket 3]

Oh, by the way - one more thing about others who choose what best for everyone.

How do you think money is best spent? See, there are four ways to spend money.

The first way is to spend YOUR money on someone else. Guess why I got underwear all the time at Christmas? I didn't want it. I didn't need it. But damn it, it's cheap, and it's something. I still had to say thank you. It's a pretty inefficient way to spend money in terms of social utility for resources.

The second way is to spend someone else's money on yourself. Well, now, you don't care about price anymore. You want high quality - the "best." See, when price is no barrier because it's someone else's money you are using, you WILL go for higher quality. This is also a pretty inefficient way to spend money.

The third way is to spend other people's money on other people. This is the most inefficient because not only do you not give a shit about how much it costs (like No. 2, above) but you also do not give a shit about what the recipient gets (like No. 1, above). The payors cannot bitch about it. The recipients better not bitch - they are getting something, right? Hence, expensive underwear for all.

The fourth way is to spend your money on yourself. Tell me, do you let others tell you how to spend your money? Tell me, do you let others determine how your money is spent on them? Tell me, do you let others take control of your money in any way whatsoever?

I'd surmise the answer is no. And yet, this is the system that so many are trumpeting. Why? Because it's good for everyone?

Well, how can something that is good for nobody be good for everybody?

It's my money. And it's my right to do what I want with it. If I want to go uncovered, then I should be allowed to. And nobody should be covering my sorry ass.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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So then how do 18,000+ people die last year because they cannot afford healthcare if we don't turn people away?

More people died last year who COULD afford it, right?

How many more people are killed each year BY healthcare. 18,000 killed? Shoot, doctors kill more people than that.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[sv3n 0]

You know..........I wrote a whole bunch of stuff out and just realized I really don't care what you think and deleted it. It's not gonna help anyone to sit here and argue about it.

If you believe that only you and your's matter....that's fine, believe that........take care of your own.

Personally, I think this world is about more than just me. And I'll make my decisions based on that. If 18,000 people die because they can't afford healthcare........that bothers me. if you want to just say "doctor's kill more people than that a year by treating them". Go right ahead......but to me, life has more value than that and I think it's disrespectful to those 18,000 people that did die last year because we have a system that failed them. It's not ok.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[lawrocket 3]

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If you believe that only you and your's matter....that's fine, believe that........take care of your own.

Yes. And you are what should matter to you. Take care of yourself.

And if everybody took care of themselves them we wouldn't be having this discussion. The bitch is when people expect others to take care of them.

Children get taken care of by others. Adults take care of themselves.

Doing so requires making hard choices. There is no easy ride. I get fatigued enough taking care of me and my responsibilities.

It is not up to me to be the teat. If you want to be that teat, then all the power to you. If so, can you spare a couple grand so I can pay my premiums? If you were to do that I could afford more beer - and maybe even a new set of golf clubs. I can't afford those clubs now because, well, I'm busy taking care of my responsibilities.

Edited to add: I've donated more to charity in the last 5 years than you have. THere's a difference, though - I CHOOSE to donate. I choose where it goes.

My wife is hotter than your wife.