They didn't even know where these nukes were, yet, we were in no danger?!?

[quade 4]

http://www.thetowntalk.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070904/NEWS01/70904040

Here's the quote I find astounding;

Quote

The risk of the warheads falling into the hands of rogue nations or terrorists was minimal since the weapons never left the United States, according to Fetter and Michael O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, an independent research and policy think tank in Washington, D.C.

I don't think I'm gonna let that think tank do any thinking for me.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

Quote

http://www.thetowntalk.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070904/NEWS01/70904040

Here's the quote I find astounding;

Quote

The risk of the warheads falling into the hands of rogue nations or terrorists was minimal since the weapons never left the United States, according to Fetter and Michael O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, an independent research and policy think tank in Washington, D.C.

I don't think I'm gonna let that think tank do any thinking for me.

Wow, I read the exact same article early today (did you find it on Drudge too?) and my take about the situation was a bit different than yours. Go figure

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

http://www.thetowntalk.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070904/NEWS01/70904040

Here's the quote I find astounding;

Quote

The risk of the warheads falling into the hands of rogue nations or terrorists was minimal since the weapons never left the United States, according to Fetter and Michael O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, an independent research and policy think tank in Washington, D.C.

I don't think I'm gonna let that think tank do any thinking for me.

Don't get me wrong. This is one huge FUBAR but really now. The system worked and heads have rolled and.............it was not kept secrete. What more needs be done? Blame Bush and fire him??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 4]

I just think that this think tank hasn't thunk it all through. (Yay alliteration.)

Minot is amazingly close to the Canadian boarder.

No, I'm not going to blame GWB or anything like that. I just think the think tank is either naive or in "help the Air Force look not so bad" mode.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 3,116]

>This is one huge FUBAR but really now. The system worked . . .

Well, no. The system failed; a live warhead was flown over populated areas of the US. The failure did not cause any problems (fortunately.) Hopefully, the next thing to happen is that the failure will be analyzed so it doesn't happen again.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I just think that this think tank hasn't thunk it all through. (Yay alliteration.)

Barksdale is amazingly close to the Canadian boarder.

No, I'm not going to blame GWB or anything like that. I just think the think tank is either naive or in "help the Air Force look not so bad" mode.

The loss of accountability on the weapons is a serious breach - I'm sure there's courts martial in store for several people.

*** Barksdale is amazingly close to the Canadian border.***

Are we talking about the same Barksdale? Bossier City, Louisiana? Perhaps you meant Minot?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

Quote

Perhaps you meant Minot?

Actually I did and can't for the life of me figure out how I swapped the two locations.

Wow. Meds must be kicking in.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

>This is one huge FUBAR but really now. The system worked . . .

Well, no. The system failed; a live warhead was flown over populated areas of the US. The failure did not cause any problems (fortunately.) Hopefully, the next thing to happen is that the failure will be analyzed so it doesn't happen again.

The failure wasn't that a warhead was flown over populated areas (unless there's some reg that I never heard of), it was that there was a failure in ACCOUNTABILITY on paper, even though the AF had physical control of the missiles the entire time.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

Quote

Perhaps you meant Minot?

Actually I did and can't for the life of me figure out how I swapped the two locations.

I figured as much...just wanted to make sure!!

Quote

Wow. Meds must be kicking in.

I can't even claim that...I'm just forgetful!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 3,116]

>The failure wasn't that a warhead was flown over populated areas
>(unless there's some reg that I never heard of) . . .

Pretty sure these weren't followed:

-----------------------------------
DOCI: DODD 4540.5
DATE: 19780614
TITL: DODD 4540.5 Movement of Nuclear Weapons bay Noncombat Delivery Vehicles,
June 14, 1978, ATSD(AE)

A. PURPOSE

This directive:

1. Establishes the policy and criteria for the movement off nuclear
weapons and nuclear components, except Limited Life Components (LLCs), by
noncombat delivery vehicles and the minimum safety standards required
during such movement.

. . .


1. The DoD Component shall provide essential information about the mission
and the cargo being carried to personnel participating in movement
operations.

. . .

4. A safety certification of loading and tiedown procedures for nuclear
weapons on all noncombat delivery vehicles used for movement of nuclear
weapons shall be required. These procedures and the safety certification
shall be completed prior to the use of the vehicles for nuclear weapon
movement.

. . .

6. During any movement of a nuclear weapon where the weapon is removed
from the direct control of the assigned custodian, the responsible
commander shall assign and designate in writing a courier, who shall be
responsible for custody, safety, and security during the movement. For
logistic movements, the designated courier shall be a commissioned officer
or warrant officer.

. . .

2. DoD Component mission planning, crew briefing and enroute procedures
shall ensure that:

a. Concerned organizations at enroute and destination bases are informed
of the estimated time of arrival, the nature of the cargo aboard, and the
requirements for priority ground servicing, maintenance, and airspace
handling.

b. Destination bases and any bases anticipated for use enroute have
adequate holding areas and properly certified support equipment, as
required.

. . .

g. Any aircraft transporting nuclear weapons avoids over-flight of heavily
populated areas whenever possible. Approaches, landings, or take-off
tracks are excluded from this limitation.

---------------------------------

>it was that there was a failure in ACCOUNTABILITY on paper.

More failure of weapons security. If nuclear weapons can be removed from storage and moved without anyone knowing for several days, there are some obvious problems there. I hope they get fixed. This wasn't just some meaningless paperwork snafu; nuclear weapons went missing.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>This is one huge FUBAR but really now. The system worked . . .

Well, no. The system failed; a live warhead was flown over populated areas of the US. The failure did not cause any problems (fortunately.) Hopefully, the next thing to happen is that the failure will be analyzed so it doesn't happen again.

No Bill, system one failed, the back up, system did not. That is what I refer to

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

A B-52 (at last glance) is *NOT* a "noncombat delivery vehicle".

Quote

More failure of weapons security. If nuclear weapons can be removed from storage and moved without anyone knowing for several days, there are some obvious problems there. I hope they get fixed. This wasn't just some meaningless paperwork snafu; nuclear weapons went missing.

Bill, I will flat out *GUARANTEE* you that those weapons weren't removed from the storage facility w/o paperwork. Without knowing particulars that the article doesn't speak to, I can't make further comment.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[nerdgirl 0]

I’m of mixed mind on this event;

(1) Transparency is good (part 1). We should not lose accountability of nuclear weapons … ever. Accountability increases with transparency.

(2) Transparency is good (part 2). Dang, I’m impressed at how fast this story was reported. We (the US) used to fly secret B-52 training flights with nuclear weapons, some of which had the Pu detonators installed. The US has lost at least 11 nuclear bombs; the full number is still classified. We recovered the ones we dropped on Spain in the 1960s, & the US taxpayers paid for the clean-up and transport of contaminated soil back to the US. (BTW: Reasonable ‘guestimates’ of lost Soviet nuclear weapons exceed 50.)

(3) Is there a way to tell, just by looking at the outside, whether a warhead is installed on an ACM (the missile in question)? Some missiles have dime-sized eyelets (windows); some don’t. My knowledge base is not that good on missiles. More importantly and the reason why it is critical for knowing where the SOP broke down: Is this symptomatic of something in our nuclear MPC&A or was it a screw-up? … one that should have never happened.

(4) (Pure hypothetical): Was it really transparency … or were the officers who leaked the story concerned regarding a re-occurring pattern? This would have been a classified incident.

(5) It was originally reported in the Army Times. I have observed that it is sport within all the services to make fun of the “Chair Force.” Heck, foreign militaries make fun of their Air Forces.

(6) Don’t overhype it. Unsecured or less than adequately secured fissile material in former Soviet states; the DPRK and Pakistani nuclear programs; Iran’s nascent nuclear program; and some of the leaks from Los Alamos are much bigger risks (probability X consequence) than a US nuclear warhead in the hands of a non-state actor, which is not to in anyway imply that securing all nuclear material and devices should not be of primary concern. Two H-bombs & a U core are somewhere off the coast of Georgia, in Washington’s Puget Sound, and in a North Carolina swamp.

(7) The RRW: what’s going to be the impact on the Reliable Replacement Warhead Program? There’s no obvious connection but ...

VR/Marg

Act as if everything you do matters, while laughing at yourself for thinking anything you do matters.
Tibetan Buddhist saying

[billvon 3,116]

>No Bill, system one failed . . .

Right. That's what I said - the system to prevent unauthorized transport of nuclear weapons failed. Needless to say, most of the other systems in the US (say, the ATC system that vectored the bomber, or the security systems at the destination end, or the fueling system for the aircraft, or the aircraft's engines) did not fail.

[kelpdiver 2]

I'd be a bit more concerned if they were loaded onto a truck that was left at a truck stop for 4 hours.

If they never left the wing of a B-52...seems much ado over nothing.

Not sure there's any point to air launched cruise missiles anymore. Subs and missiles do fine, and we no longer need the triad of deterrence. Airplanes are a bit vunerable in the sky to enemies and accidents.

[kallend 2,148]

Quote

Blame Bush and fire him??

Right!

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

Quote

>No Bill, system one failed . . .

Right. That's what I said - the system to prevent unauthorized transport of nuclear weapons failed. Needless to say, most of the other systems in the US (say, the ATC system that vectored the bomber, or the security systems at the destination end, or the fueling system for the aircraft, or the aircraft's engines) did not fail.

You, my friend want to make this out to be something it is not. Have, you are on your own

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

Blame Bush and fire him??

Right!

What took you so long?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[peckerhead 0]

It would seem he is immune from being "fired"

It does not surprise me in the least that the pro-bush-no-matter-what crowd sees no harm at all in this incident. (mistakes have been made but we are making progress blah, blah, blah)

It is a bit ironic that the same folks don't want anyone else to have a nuke but hey! We have so many they accidently get flown over our country by mistake

[willard 0]

Quote

>This is one huge FUBAR but really now. The system worked . . .

Well, no. The system failed; a live warhead was flown over populated areas of the US. The failure did not cause any problems (fortunately.) Hopefully, the next thing to happen is that the failure will be analyzed so it doesn't happen again.

C'mon, Bill. Sure it was "live", but it wasn't armed. You know as well as I that an unarmed nuke is impossible to set off. The worst that could happen would be the plane crashed in a populated are and the radioactive elements were exposed, the same risk that is taken every day.
But it was a HUGE fuck-up!!!

[rushmc 23]

Quote

It would seem he is immune from being "fired"

It does not surprise me in the least that the pro-bush-no-matter-what crowd sees no harm at all in this incident. (mistakes have been made but we are making progress blah, blah, blah)

It is a bit ironic that the same folks don't want anyone else to have a nuke but hey! We have so many they accidently get flown over our country by mistake

Oh, other than I dont have any idea of your point other than to blame Bush, I guess, nice post

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Quote

It would seem he is immune from being "fired"

It does not surprise me in the least that the pro-bush-no-matter-what crowd sees no harm at all in this incident. (mistakes have been made but we are making progress blah, blah, blah)

It is a bit ironic that the same folks don't want anyone else to have a nuke but hey! We have so many they accidently get flown over our country by mistake Ah I think you should know of what you speak BEFORE you make statements such as this. You are so factually mistaken here it is dam near funny

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

• Quote

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

It is a bit ironic that the same folks don't want anyone else to have a nuke but hey! We have so many they accidently get flown over our country by mistake

It wouldn't be the first time a nuke flew over our country. Where do you think they come from? And spend most of their time?

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Quote

It is a bit ironic that the same folks don't want anyone else to have a nuke but hey! We have so many they accidently get flown over our country by mistake

It wouldn't be the first time a nuke flew over our country. Where do you think they come from? And spend most of their time?

Exactly why I used "funny" in my reply to that post. Spot on !!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[peckerhead 0]

Well, I just hope they didn't have any finger nail clippers on board. That would be dangerous!