SpeedRacer 1 #1 September 5, 2007 "Surrender Should NOT be an Option" by Ron Paul Sep 04, 2007 - 08:15 AM Surrender Should Not Be an Option Faced with dwindling support of the Iraq War, the warhawks are redoubling their efforts. They imply we are in Iraq attacking those who attacked us, and yet this is not the case. As we know, Saddam Hussein, though not a particularly savory character, had nothing to do with 9/11. The neo-cons claim surrender should not be an option. In the same breath they claim we were attacked because of our freedoms. Why then, are they so anxious to surrender our freedoms with legislation like the Patriot Act, a repeal of our 4th amendment rights, executive orders, and presidential signing statements? With politicians like these, who needs terrorists? Do they think if we destroy our freedoms for the terrorists they will no longer have a reason to attack us? This seems the epitome of cowardice coming from those who claim a monopoly on patriotic courage. In any case, we have achieved the goals specified in the initial authorization. Saddam Hussein has been removed. An elected government is now in place in Iraq that meets with US approval. The only weapon of mass destruction in Iraq is our military presence. Why are we still over there? Conventional wisdom would dictate that when the "mission is accomplished", the victor goes home, and that is not considered a retreat. They claim progress is being made and we are fighting a winnable war, but this is not a view connected with reality. We can't be sure when we kill someone over there if they were truly an insurgent or an innocent Iraqi civilian. There are as many as 650,000 deaths since the war began. The anger we incite by killing innocents creates more new insurgents than our bullets can keep up with. There are no measurable goals to be achieved at this point. The best congressional leadership can come up with is the concept of strategic redeployment, or moving our troops around, possibly into Saudi Arabia or even, alarmingly enough, into Iran. Rather than ending this war, we could be starting another one. The American people voted for a humble foreign policy in 2000. They voted for an end to the war in 2006. Instead of recognizing the wisdom and desire of the voters, they are chided as cowards, unwilling to defend themselves. Americans are fiercely willing to defend themselves. However, we have no stomach for indiscriminate bombing in foreign lands when our actual attackers either killed themselves on 9/11 or are still at large somewhere in a country that is neither Iraq nor Iran. Defense of our homeland is one thing. Offensive tactics overseas are quite another. Worse yet, when our newly minted enemies find their way over here, where will our troops be to defend us? The American people have NOT gotten the government they deserve. They asked for a stronger America and peace through nonintervention, yet we have a government of deceit, inaction and one that puts us in grave danger on the international front. The American People deserve much better than this. They deserve foreign and domestic policy that doesn't require they surrender their liberties. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #2 September 5, 2007 Quote Faced with dwindling support of the Iraq War, the warhawks are redoubling their efforts. They imply we are in Iraq attacking those who attacked us, and yet this is not the case. As we know, Saddam Hussein, though not a particularly savory character, had nothing to do with 9/11. The neo-cons claim surrender should not be an option. Well at least he didnt call them chickenhawks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #3 September 5, 2007 I like Ron Paul. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #4 September 5, 2007 Yep me too. The more i read about him the more i think he is on the ball and living in reality.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #5 September 5, 2007 QuoteYep me too. . Three!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freethefly 6 #6 September 5, 2007 QuoteQuoteYep me too. . Three! Four! Ron Paul is the RIGHT man for the job!"...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #7 September 5, 2007 why must a removal of troops be labeled as a 'surrender"... it is not..... we keep hearing from this administration, that our 'departure"... is a 'sign of weakness'..... will give the bad guys the idea that we "turned tail and ran".... will "embolden the insurgents"...... .... Our STAYING there, emboldens the local militias, the citizens of the country which we invaded,,,, the natives, who will fight others of a different philosophy even though the others are also natives.....desperation knows no bounds. When that happened HERE 200 + years ago,, those folks were called patriots, and Founding Fathers.. and were immortalized, in our history books...When it happens THERE, we call them radicals and insurgents..... and of course TERRORISTS We go across the world and impose Our will,,, ( or more accurately put,,,, the will of the G W Bush administration ) upon a people who have had a Lousy Life as it was.......thus making their lives far worse than they were under "dictatorship"..and then when they react as anyone who has been assaulted would react.... the White House,, says.... "see,, they hate us and wanna kill us"... well Mr. President.. they may wanna kill YOU.. but they have no beef with me,,,,,, or for the most part,,,, with the millions of US citizens who, provide the tax money which you "brainiacs" in washington , and in your defense department... throw down the drain, day after day, billion after BILLION...Sure,,,, go outside and find a big hornets nest,,, and then instead of leaving it alone,,, or else monitoring it from a distance,,,until it runs it's natural course, and becomes a dead shell of a nest..... Go Ahead and find a big stick and whack it a few times.... really hard.... and see whether or not the hornets are going to swarm out of it and come after you.....Retracting away from a mistake, back stepping a pace or two, removing our dedicated troops from harms way....... that's NOT surrender... that's good common sense.... I think......... jmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #8 September 5, 2007 Quote why must a removal of troops be labeled as a 'surrender"... it is not..... we keep hearing from this administration, that our 'departure"... is a 'sign of weakness'..... will give the bad guys the idea that we "turned tail and ran".... will "embolden the insurgents"...... .... Our STAYING there, emboldens the local militias, the citizens of the country which we invaded,,,, the natives, who will fight others of a different philosophy even though the others are also natives.....desperation knows no bounds. When that happened HERE 200 + years ago,, those folks were called patriots, and Founding Fathers.. and were immortalized, in our history books...When it happens THERE, we call them radicals and insurgents..... and of course TERRORISTS We go across the world and impose Our will,,, ( or more accurately put,,,, the will of the G W Bush administration ) upon a people who have had a Lousy Life as it was.......thus making their lives far worse than they were under "dictatorship"..and then when they react as anyone who has been assaulted would react.... the White House,, says.... "see,, they hate us and wanna kill us"... well Mr. President.. they may wanna kill YOU.. but they have no beef with me,,,,,, or for the most part,,,, with the millions of US citizens who, provide the tax money which you "brainiacs" in washington , and in your defense department... throw down the drain, day after day, billion after BILLION...Sure,,,, go outside and find a big hornets nest,,, and then instead of leaving it alone,,, or else monitoring it from a distance,,,until it runs it's natural course, and becomes a dead shell of a nest..... Go Ahead and find a big stick and whack it a few times.... really hard.... and see whether or not the hornets are going to swarm out of it and come after you.....Retracting away from a mistake, back stepping a pace or two, removing our dedicated troops from harms way....... that's NOT surrender... that's good common sense.... I think......... jmy Did you read the article? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,107 #9 September 5, 2007 > why must a removal of troops be labeled as a 'surrender"... It's a rhetorical tool, an attempt to replace logic with emotion. (Hey, emotion's gotten them this far - why not?) Note that Paul was making a contrast between that usage and his. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmytavino 16 #10 September 5, 2007 I Did read the article....... My words were in reply to the use of the term, "surrender"..... I thought that Mr Paul was using the term in a bit of a sarcastic way... I agree with his words and statements the point of my post was to adress the semantics here.... using the word " Surrender" has been attacked as a no-no by this administration.....and so they emphasize the bad connotations of the word in the ever present policy of 'we're the good guys, and they are the bad guys' removal of troops would be a good thing.. i guess we might agree on that... as far as surrendering our freedoms, here at home, giving up our constitutionally protected rights to privacy,,,, No those things can't be surrendered....and our elected officials should NOT establish policy, either openly or behind closed doors ( under the guise, of "classified security procedures"...) which results in the very loss of the personal freedoms of our citizenry... j Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
akarunway 1 #11 September 5, 2007 5I hold it true, whate'er befall; I feel it, when I sorrow most; 'Tis better to have loved and lost Than never to have loved at all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #12 September 5, 2007 QuoteI like Ron Paul. He's come a long way from those porn films.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #13 September 5, 2007 so anyway, how many of the Ron Paul fans here are actually going to vote for him in the Republican primaries? Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #14 September 5, 2007 I'm not registered republican (but I'm actually considering re-registering so I can vote for him in the primary). Paul is more of a classic republican, for small government, and that view isn't very popular with the neo-con movement, so I guess a lot of registered republicans won't vote for him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #15 September 5, 2007 Quotebut I'm actually considering re-registering so I can vote for him in the primary). This is what I'm going to do. But you need to check the laws in your state: In Maryland you need to register 12 weeks in advance of the primaries. So I'm going to register as Republican this month. After the primaries in January I will switch back to Libertarian. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para_Frog 1 #16 September 5, 2007 There's no one else in the race - from either party- I will vote for. Period.- Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Para_Frog 1 #17 September 5, 2007 Quoteso anyway, how many of the Ron Paul fans here are actually going to vote for him in the Republican primaries? Like they say in Florida..."Vote early, vote often."- Harvey, BASE 1232 TAN-I, IAD-I, S&TA BLiNC Magazine Team Member Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
