Mohammed Betting Pool #4 - Germans Bust 3

[SpeedRacer 1]

To further clarify: Whether our military actions in Iraq are justified is an entirely different question than whether or not it is terrorism.

Terrorism is a specific strategy. You don't just slap the word terrorism on any and every violent attack you disagree with.

That was the point of the post about the liquor store holdup.

and as for billvon's statement about Hiroshima Nagasaki and Dresden: If the target wasn't military, (if the goal was to devastate & terrorize the civilian population) then yes, these were acts of terrorism.

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terrorism

noun
the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear

WordNet® 3.0, © 2006 by Princeton University.

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[juanesky 0]

He weeps at hirsohima and Nagasaki, but disregards Tokyo bombings that actually had more people killed. Maybe is a defeatist infatuation with the A bomb. But who knows.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[jakee 1,611]

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A terrorist deliberately attacks civilian targets.

So what is it called when people deliberately target civil infrastructure in order to create Shock and Awe?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[billvon 3,132]

> He weeps at hirsohima and Nagasaki, but disregards Tokyo
>bombings that actually had more people killed.

Another FOXism, I am afraid. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings killed around 350,000 all told. The Tokyo firebombings killed around 100,000. All three are examples of the allies killing innocent civilians to spread terror.

[champu 1]

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Do you think terrorist can attack bases and shot down planes but choose to blow up a bus?

Do you think we are justified simply because are military is more capable? That sounds like the Israeli argument.

I said it before and I'll say it again, "smart" weapon is a misnomer. This is why you see the term "precision-guided munition" more these days. The only thing a "smart" weapon knows that a "dumb" weapon doesn't is how to get to where a human (of undefined intelligence for the purpose of this discussion) told it where to go.

While I personally avoid designing technology intended to kill people and break things, I support the development of any technology intended to focus lethality, be it a laser/gps guided bomb, or a snazzy communication system with pretty icons that tells you where the good people are and where the bad people are. These things both work to limit collateral damage when weapons are "properly" used and increase accountability when they are misused. (no excuses, it did exactly what it was told)

The "blowing up soft civilian targets with IEDs is the only form of resistance they've got" argument may be true, but garners absolutely zero sympathy from me.

[juanesky 0]

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> He weeps at hirsohima and Nagasaki, but disregards Tokyo
>bombings that actually had more people killed.

Another FOXism, I am afraid. The Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings killed around 350,000 all told. The Tokyo firebombings killed around 100,000. All three are examples of the allies killing innocent civilians to spread terror.

As usual, you are way off with numbers in the A bomb victims. You take the revisionist position that there was absolutely no need to stop the war with the Japanese expediently, and also the great lenghts soldiers went about to take Iwo Jima, and Okinawa, and what those places, and confrontations really told us.

You also conveniently forget about how many more people would have died if the war lasted 100 more days, and I'm referring all in the lands occupied by Japan at the time.

Of course, that after the war, they just cried wolf, that it was horrible, and instead of condemning the military involved in a vast genocide in every single territory they occupied, they were now, the poor happless victims who idolized their war heros up until these days. War is horrendous, but after over 10+ years they took over land, and systematically raped, murder, tested people in really bad experiments by the millions, your figure of 350K, is the price they had to pay for it.

Of course we know that you prefer to ignore the systemic killing of millions of innocent civilians, Chinese, Philipines, Vietnamese, etc. the Japanese manage to liquidate in their intent of setting a broader homeland. We learned the lessons, and hence they have not been used again. Too bad your John Kerry didn't have his way in 2004 so you could be vindicated don't you think?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[billvon 3,132]

>As usual, you are way off with numbers in the A bomb victims.

Hiroshima: 130,000 to 200,000 dead

Nagasaki: 70,000 to 150,000 dead

(As you might imagine, when you vaporize entire schools, apartment buildings and hospitals - it's hard to count bodies afterwards.)

>You take the revisionist position that there was absolutely no need to
>stop the war with the Japanese expediently . . .

I take the position that killing 200,000 to 350,000 innocent men, women and children is abominable, no matter what the cause.

>Of course we know that you prefer to ignore the systemic killing of millions of innocent civilians . . .

No, I am of the opinion that killing civilians is bad. When other people do it they are criminals. When we do it, we are criminals. I note you have developed an excellent double standard where we are the good guys and 'they' are the bad guys, and we kill civilians in a good way while they kill them in a bad way. I do not believe in such moral expedients.

[juanesky 0]

Again, you revise story as you see fit. Was there any need to stop WWII with the Japanese at all in your eyes?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[SpeedRacer 1]

Personally, in my posts, I never said that the nuke attacks on Japan were the right or the wrong thing to do given the circumstances.

I only claimed that they were examples of terrorism if you go by the definition of the word "terrorism" (attack against civilian targets). It doesn't make me feel good to say it , but if we go strictly according to the definition of the word, then it would have to be called terrorism.

Whether we should or shouldn't have actually done it (given the circumstances) is an entirely different question.

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[Skyrad 0]

White Germans.. Fritz, Adem and Dan, "LOOSER! LOOSER!"

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Prosecutors said the three — identified only as Fritz Martin G., 28; Adem Y., 28; and Daniel Martin S., 21 — first came to the attention of police when one or more of them carried out surveillance of U.S. military facilities in Hanau, near Frankfurt, in late 2006.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070905/ap_on_re_eu/germany_terror

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[Guest]

Update: Der Speigel on US-German Cooperation That Led to the Takedown of the Terror Cell

Close call. Well done, guys. You've made us proud of you.

mh

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[SpeedRacer 1]

Good job!

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[Skyrad 0]

God that must be a boring job going thorugh peoples e-mails everyday. Good work you US e-mail readers and also the German Intelligence agencies and police units. Well done (just incase you're reading this)

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[piper17 1]

Ever hear of Coventry, UK. Or London, Manchester, Guernica, Manila, Singapore, etc, etc, etc????

Without the support of the "civilian" population, no country's military can persevere. The citizens choose the country's government, provide the manpower that fills the ranks of the military, works in the armament factories designing and manufacturing the weapons that the military uses, operate the refineries that supply the fuels that the military needs to operate etc.

What exempts the civilian population of any country from the dangers of a war that their country is fighting?

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[JohnRich 4]

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Update: Der Speigel on US-German Cooperation That Led to the Takedown of the Terror Cell

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With the help of the CIA, German investigators foiled what would likely have been the most devastating terror attack of its kind in the country's history... Operation Alberich began last October, when the US National Security Agency, the NSA, began intercepting suspicious emails between Germany and Pakistan.

But, but, the liberals don't want to allow the government to moniter international e-mail and phone conversations!