"Your Papers, Please", Ohio Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Receipt at Circuit City

[kallend 2,113]

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My God...I can't believe some of you.

According to your way of thinking it OPEN HOUSE FOR THEFT!!!!!!!!

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I'm walking out of here with 72 LCD TVs and you have no right to check to see if I paid for them!
WooooHooooo!
I'll be right back for the next load!
WooooHoooo!


.

Ummm - no, that is NOT what is being said AT ALL. Nice try, though.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[willard 0]

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I was making the point that there is a line that most people hit where policy become unaccpetable and a violation. My line is hit when I am checked out just in case I MIGHT be a thief. I resent that, and will not submit to it. Go catch the thieves - leave me the hell alone.

"Rush hour traffic would be so much easier if people would just get the hell out of my way!"
In order to catch the bad guys sometimes the good guys have to suffer a tad bit of inconvenience such as showing your receipt on the way out the door.

[georgerussia 0]

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I'm walking out of here with 72 LCD TVs and you have no right to check to see if I paid for them!

This is correct. I have no rights to check whether you paid for it. I do not have right to search you to check whether you are carrying illegal gun, and I have no right to wiretap your Internet connection to check whether you are molesting children online.
That is why we have the police, and the police has those rights.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[freethefly 6]

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Did the dogs 'hit' on anything. Sometimes I think the dogs are just there to provide just cause for a search. The dog scratches his ass and the cops say "There it is, he gave the signal - let's tear this jalopy apart!"

Nope, but a crap load of cops were standing around drooling at the chance to beat the crap out of me while someone elsewhere was happy that the cops were preoccupied fucking with a longhair type so they could commit a real crime. I guess, longhair=drugs

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[willard 0]

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The store should place a lawyer outside their door to explain to each and every customer exactly what the stores policy is.

You people won't show a receipt why would stand there and listen to some lawyer explain the COMPANIES (not the governments) policies.

j

How about searching your bag? The one that contains YOUR property that YOU just paid for.

The fact is that these policies are primarily to protect the store against crooked cashiers. YOU get your bag searched because THEY have hired dishonest workers.

Really, John? I'd like to see where you got that information.

[georgerussia 0]

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These stores can only prosecute someone for theft once they pass the cash registers and before they leave the store. The corporate lawyers cannot show intent unless their is video with that proof. Once the customer is out the door, the company has taken a loss.

I don't think the store could prosecute for theft anyone who just passed the cashier line. At least on Safeway there is a lot of stuff behind the cashier line - so you actually have to pass cashiers to get them. Our local Safeway sometime even has stuff _outside_ the store (watermelons are common), with price tags.

What I heard was actually completely different: the theft is not completed until the thief leaves the store.

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There is nothing illegal that I know of that prevents them from asking for proof of purchase before you leave.

True, there is nothing illegal to ask for proof of purchase. Even I can ask for proof of purchase for everything you have in your car or home, there is nothing illegal with this. The point is that whether you have to comply this request, or you can/should just deny it.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[normiss 867]

the police do not have those rights!
They must PROVE to a judge PROBABLE CAUSE to obtain PERMISSION to perform those acts.
Not showing a receipt is NOT PROBABLE CAUSE FOR ANYTHING!!! Nor is it a policy at any store I shop at...it's merely a request. Everything everyone has posted to the contrary refers to establishing probable cause FIRST.

[georgerussia 0]

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Really, John? I'd like to see where you got that information.

Maybe because the stuff the thief stole before coming to cashier is usually not hidden in the bag the cashier hang to him?

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kallend 2,113]

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The store should place a lawyer outside their door to explain to each and every customer exactly what the stores policy is.

You people won't show a receipt why would stand there and listen to some lawyer explain the COMPANIES (not the governments) policies.

j

How about searching your bag? The one that contains YOUR property that YOU just paid for.

The fact is that these policies are primarily to protect the store against crooked cashiers. YOU get your bag searched because THEY have hired dishonest workers.

Really, John? I'd like to see where you got that information.

Just think about it.

Ernst & Young's Study of Retail Loss Prevention estimates that the retail industry loses a staggering $46 billion annually to inventory shrinkage.

By far, the largest percentage of loss--a whopping 48 percent--comes from store employees. Some estimates put the amount at closer to 75 percent. And 55 percent of employee theft occurs among managers and supervisors. A National Supermarket Research Group survey reports that employee theft makes up 57 percent of all retail loss at grocery.

Why is there so much employee theft? According to the Retail Issues Letter from Mays Business School at Texas A&M University, the reason is simple. "Employees have the necessary insider information to conduct endless retail frauds," states the letter. "Acting alone or in collusion, they are uniquely positioned to cause significant financial damage in a relatively short period."

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[georgerussia 0]

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the police do not have those rights!
They must PROVE to a judge PROBABLE CAUSE to obtain PERMISSION to perform those acts.

That's what I mean they have this right. Obviously they do not have the right to do it under any circumstances.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[normiss 867]

OMG!
You've asked them to THINK????

[willard 0]

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Really, John? I'd like to see where you got that information.

Maybe because the stuff the thief stole before coming to cashier is usually not hidden in the bag the cashier hang to him?

I'm sure that in some instances the cashier is involved, but I would guess that more often people just walk around the cashier line and out the door, something not at all difficult to do.
One way to avoid that situation is to have a security person at each checkout line who you hand all items to and they escort you through the line and directly out the door. Once out the door the only way back in is through a security check where all items you bring in are recorded and tagged. But somehow I don't think people would patronize a business that was run that way.

[Thanatos340 1]

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Would you be okay with the police searching your car after being pulled over for a burnt out tail light?

Not even close.. See If A Cop stops me I have no Choice. I must stop. That is the law.
There si NO LAW that I must buy a TV from Best buy. If I do CHOOSE to buy a TV from best Buy, I agree to many of their policies.. Their return Policy, Their Rebate Policies (If they are offering them, And the I agree to let them check the Receipt against the Items in my Bag when I leave the store.
It is all part of the sale. I can Accept this deal, Or Not. You should NOT be able to agree to this (Which you do by making the purchase fully knowing that this is thier policy..) and then renege on your part of the deal (allowing them to check the receipt). If you do, They should be able to Sue YOU for all the time, hassle and trouble you cause them by being a belligerent ass.

They are NOT searching you. They are checking the receipt against the merchandise.
I have never seen rubber Gloves and/or Lube used in this simple process.

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Would you mind if the government wished to place cameras throughout your house?

Absolutely. But I have no problems with Store placing camera all over their stores. They are NOT violating my Privacy as I am in THEIR Store.

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Would you be fine with being strip searched just to make sure you are not hiding something when you are doing nothing but walking down the street?

Yes, I would mind as you are implying that the Government is doing this and I have no Choice.
I have a choice as to where I buy electronics. I can choose to buy from someplace that checks receipts or some place that doesn’t. It is really very simple. I am not a victim. I know that is hard for some to comprehend but I can make my own choices and don’t need others making those for me.

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Maybe you should volunteer to have your phone bugged. After all, if you have nothing to hide, you should be alright with being monitored 24 hour a day. Right?

No, But when I call most corporations, The first thing I hear is "this call may be recorded". I can choose to hang up or proceed knowing the call is in fact "Bugged".

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I once refused to let the cops search my car after being pulled over on a traffic violation. They called in the dogs and wasted a crap load of man hours that would had been better spent actually doing their fucking jobs.

I have had the same thing happen. I filed complaints with the police depts.

Legally, they can do this if they have "probable cause".

None of this has anything to do with a Private Company saying we sell Items at this price. If you buy them, Here are the terms. You can choose to accept them or not. If you do not, Shop elsewhere.

Buying the item and then complaining about the deal you knew full well you were making to begin with is well.. Typical liberal Bullshit.

[kallend 2,113]

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Really, John? I'd like to see where you got that information.

Maybe because the stuff the thief stole before coming to cashier is usually not hidden in the bag the cashier hang to him?

I'm sure that in some instances the cashier is involved, but I would guess that more often people just walk around the cashier line and out the door, something not at all difficult to do.
One way to avoid that situation is to have a security person at each checkout line who you hand all items to and they escort you through the line and directly out the door. Once out the door the only way back in is through a security check where all items you bring in are recorded and tagged. But somehow I don't think people would patronize a business that was run that way.

So someone comes straight from the cashier lane to the exit with their goods in the bag. What purpose is served in asking for the receipt?

This discussion is NOT about someone who bypassed the cashier.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[willard 0]

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The store should place a lawyer outside their door to explain to each and every customer exactly what the stores policy is.

You people won't show a receipt why would stand there and listen to some lawyer explain the COMPANIES (not the governments) policies.

j

How about searching your bag? The one that contains YOUR property that YOU just paid for.

The fact is that these policies are primarily to protect the store against crooked cashiers. YOU get your bag searched because THEY have hired dishonest workers.

Really, John? I'd like to see where you got that information.

Just think about it.

Ernst & Young's Study of Retail Loss Prevention estimates that the retail industry loses a staggering $46 billion annually to inventory shrinkage.

By far, the largest percentage of loss--a whopping 48 percent--comes from store employees. Some estimates put the amount at closer to 75 percent. And 55 percent of employee theft occurs among managers and supervisors. A National Supermarket Research Group survey reports that employee theft makes up 57 percent of all retail loss at grocery.

Why is there so much employee theft? According to the Retail Issues Letter from Mays Business School at Texas A&M University, the reason is simple. "Employees have the necessary insider information to conduct endless retail frauds," states the letter. "Acting alone or in collusion, they are uniquely positioned to cause significant financial damage in a relatively short period."

At the Wal-Mart my sister worked almost all employee theft was from the stockroom, not through the cashier lines.
It is a falsehood to say it is fact the policies are because of crooked cashiers when the article you quote only mentions employees as a whole and not by job.

[Thanatos340 1]

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So someone comes straight from the cashier lane to the exit with their goods in the bag. What purpose is served in asking for the receipt?

I can think of several reasons..
1) to ensure for both the Store and the Customer that the customer has all the items they paid for and No more items than they paid for.

2) That the Items that the customer paid for are in fact the actual items they have (Easy to swap Bar Code labels.

All these things are for the benefit of BOTH the customer and the Store.

People that do not like this should NOT shop at store that do this. If they do CHOOSE to shop there, then they are agreeing to these terms.

[billvon 3,085]

So we have two sides:

The sheep who, apparently, are just fine with bending over and letting the store shove stuff up their ass.

The criminals who are fine with stores being robbed blind without anyone able to raise a finger to stop it, and as a result, having children starve because they can't afford the new higher prices for milk.

So everyone - choose which side you want to be on! Because this is Speaker's Corner and there are no shades of gray here.

[airdvr 210]

Baaa1...give it to me good Bill!

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[normiss 867]

I am no sheep, I don't let anybody shove anything up my ass!

I still can't quite make that jump to a request to see my receipt being the cause and effect of starving children and homeless people either...

And for the record, I never objected to inventory controls of any kind. I despise retail theft. Only one of the reasons I don't do it. Until today, I didn't realize I had to prove that to everyone simply because I make retail purchases.

[willard 0]

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Really, John? I'd like to see where you got that information.

Maybe because the stuff the thief stole before coming to cashier is usually not hidden in the bag the cashier hang to him?

I'm sure that in some instances the cashier is involved, but I would guess that more often people just walk around the cashier line and out the door, something not at all difficult to do.
One way to avoid that situation is to have a security person at each checkout line who you hand all items to and they escort you through the line and directly out the door. Once out the door the only way back in is through a security check where all items you bring in are recorded and tagged. But somehow I don't think people would patronize a business that was run that way.

So someone comes straight from the cashier lane to the exit with their goods in the bag. What purpose is served in asking for the receipt?

This discussion is NOT about someone who bypassed the cashier.

We know that because the kid did indeed pay for the surge protector (we assume he is telling the truth) and that he went through the checkout line.
What we DON'T know (and you are assuming) is if the security person actually saw him go through the line. It is possible, nay, LIKELY, that he didn't and wanted to see the receipt to ascertain the kid did pay for what he was carrying.
This THREAD isn't about someone who bypassed the cashier, but has evolved to include those who do. Threads evolve, remember?

[billvon 3,085]

>I still can't quite make that jump to a request to see my receipt being the
>cause and effect of starving children and homeless people either...

I'm sorry, there are only two choices in this poll. (What? No poll with two choices? A simple oversight I am sure.) Which means you want children to starve. Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you no shame?

(just kidding in case it wasn't obvious)

[normiss 867]

My God man!
My receipt behavior is causing such anarchy!
oh the humanity of it all...

[Armour666 0]

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Would you be okay with the police searching your car after being pulled over for a burnt out tail light?

Not even close.. See If A Cop stops me I have no Choice. I must stop. That is the law.
There si NO LAW that I must buy a TV from Best buy. If I do CHOOSE to buy a TV from best Buy, I agree to many of their policies.. Their return Policy, Their Rebate Policies (If they are offering them, And the I agree to let them check the Receipt against the Items in my Bag when I leave the store.
It is all part of the sale. I can Accept this deal, Or Not. You should NOT be able to agree to this (Which you do by making the purchase fully knowing that this is thier policy..) and then renege on your part of the deal (allowing them to check the receipt). If you do, They should be able to Sue YOU for all the time, hassle and trouble you cause them by being a belligerent ass.

They are NOT searching you. They are checking the receipt against the merchandise.
I have never seen rubber Gloves and/or Lube used in this simple process.

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Would you mind if the government wished to place cameras throughout your house?

Absolutely. But I have no problems with Store placing camera all over their stores. They are NOT violating my Privacy as I am in THEIR Store.

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Would you be fine with being strip searched just to make sure you are not hiding something when you are doing nothing but walking down the street?

Yes, I would mind as you are implying that the Government is doing this and I have no Choice.
I have a choice as to where I buy electronics. I can choose to buy from someplace that checks receipts or some place that doesn’t. It is really very simple. I am not a victim. I know that is hard for some to comprehend but I can make my own choices and don’t need others making those for me.

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Maybe you should volunteer to have your phone bugged. After all, if you have nothing to hide, you should be alright with being monitored 24 hour a day. Right?

No, But when I call most corporations, The first thing I hear is "this call may be recorded". I can choose to hang up or proceed knowing the call is in fact "Bugged".

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I once refused to let the cops search my car after being pulled over on a traffic violation. They called in the dogs and wasted a crap load of man hours that would had been better spent actually doing their fucking jobs.

I have had the same thing happen. I filed complaints with the police depts.

Legally, they can do this if they have "probable cause".

None of this has anything to do with a Private Company saying we sell Items at this price. If you buy them, Here are the terms. You can choose to accept them or not. If you do not, Shop elsewhere.

Buying the item and then complaining about the deal you knew full well you were making to begin with is well.. Typical liberal Bullshit.

***None of this has anything to do with a Private Company saying we sell Items at this price. If you buy them, here are the terms. You can choose to accept them or not. If you do not, Shop elsewhere. ***

So it’s acceptable to lay out terms for shopping experience by race gender, sexual orientation, height, ect. Because that’s their terms don’t like it go else where because they are a Private Company?

***Buying the item and then complaining about the deal you knew full well you were making to begin with is well.. Typical liberal Bullshit. ***

You defeated your own argument there as on the other side there is no law saying you have to comply with having a receipt checked. Also there are store policies that contravene state law on sales of goods but again it's the store policy and you chose to shop there so you should just accept it?

And no you don't know the terms of the deal as I have yet seen a store post a sign before you go in or a cashier tell you before funds are exchanged that part of the transaction is to comply with having a bag or receipt on exit. At Costco and Sam’s Clubs you do as there part of the member ship is signing and agreeing to the terms!

*** But I have no problems with Store placing camera all over their stores. They are NOT violating my Privacy as I am in THEIR Store. ***

No that is not the case of cameras as there are privacy laws that dictate where they can be used. They are there and able to be use as it is a Public space that’s why they are not violating your privacy. They can not have cameras in a place of business in areas that are not deemed a public space or general work areas. They can cover entrances and public spaces only. And must inform that they are doing so.

*** But when I call most corporations, the first thing I hear is "this call may be recorded". I can choose to hang up or proceed knowing the call is in fact "Bugged".***

That’s because by law they have to inform you. Would be ok that it was recorded without your knowledge and not give you the choice to proceed or not?

SO this one time at band camp.....

"Of all the things I've lost I miss my mind the most."

[georgerussia 0]

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I'm sure that in some instances the cashier is involved, but I would guess that more often people just walk around the cashier line and out the door, something not at all difficult to do.

You are talking about the "show receipt" policy.
In that case there is no receipt, and therefore "show receipt" policy does not prevent anything at all.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[kelpdiver 2]

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I have to say the cop probably stepped on his crank but living in Ohio and knowing a bit about Brooklyn I'm guessing this cop was pissed that he had to respond to this little whiner who dialed 911 for a non-emergency.

How is it not an emergency? He's being forcibly detained by two people. That's a crime in progress. And he's not in his home town (though who actually has the local police number programmed into their cell phone anyhow?).

As soon as the dispatcher got the call, it was routed as a non lifethreatening matter, so it was hardly a gross inconvenience to a system that gets calls from people asking for directions.

Bottom line, the cop didn't like being challenged.

This thread really shows why brick and morter is getting its ass reamed by online sales. Circuit City is best known of late for firing all their successful salesmen and replacing them with cheaper, dumber ones. If you want to support that sort of company, have at it. If I'm not getting any intelligent information, why do I need to pay their (generally awful) prices?