normiss 897 #276 September 5, 2007 WHEN rfid is finally deployed...haven't you listened to the sales pitches??? and by that time...the manufacturers will be installing the rfid devices in the product for electronics...we're also all getting flying cars too... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #277 September 5, 2007 QuoteIt is their Store. Their rules. You do not have to shop there. If you do not like their rules, Don’t go in. [ I remember this. "Colored People served in kitchen" Quote As I said before, This could also benefit the consumer as well as the store if done properly. Have you ever bought groceries (or anything else) and then realized when you got home that something you paid for was not in the bag?? I know I have several times. This extra check also helps make sure you HAVE all the items you paid for. hahahahaha Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #278 September 5, 2007 QuoteHonest people have nothing to fear here And off we go down the slippery slope again.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #279 September 6, 2007 yes showing your receipt is the start of a very slippery slope. I mean it's not as if we have slightly more important things to think about..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 897 #280 September 6, 2007 such as civil liberties or anything...see the numbing effect of slowly removing and limiting your rights is working...you must make a lot of overseas calls. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,465 #281 September 6, 2007 sorry, didin't realize that not showing your receipt at the door of Circuit City was a right.....didn't show up in my civil liberties class. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SpeedRacer 1 #282 September 6, 2007 I'd like to point out here that it is MUCH faster to just whip a little slip of paper out of your pocket than it is to go online & postwhore about it 282 times. Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #283 September 6, 2007 Quote I do not patronize stores that treat me like a criminal. Three cheers for Righi for refusing to bullied. We agree.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #284 September 6, 2007 Quote I'd like to point out here that it is MUCH faster to just whip a little slip of paper out of your pocket than it is to go online & postwhore about it 282 times. But only if you aren't getting drilled in the ass because you bent over to tie your shoe while they were checking your receipt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #285 September 6, 2007 Quote It does if the merchandise is either in the open where it can be seen or in a bag, the circumstances we have been discussing all along. The merchanidse cannot be in his bag, because this bag was just given to him by the cashier, and supposed to contain only things he paid for (or the cashier was satisfactory explainted he brought them with him - this is the case if the merchanidze is in open). So, as I said, the receipt inspection would not prevent anything like that. It only could prevent the "crook cashier" plan, but it is not my problem if a store hires crook cashiers.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #286 September 6, 2007 Quote Quote It does if the merchandise is either in the open where it can be seen or in a bag, the circumstances we have been discussing all along. The merchanidse cannot be in his bag, because this bag was just given to him by the cashier, and supposed to contain only things he paid for (or the cashier was satisfactory explainted he brought them with him - this is the case if the merchanidze is in open). So, as I said, the receipt inspection would not prevent anything like that. It only could prevent the "crook cashier" plan, but it is not my problem if a store hires crook cashiers. Ok, I guess you need it spelled out. Listen closely now! Man makes his way through checkout line, pays for items rung up by cashier, takes his receipt and bag and makes his way toward the door. He notices the greeter.receipt checker is busy and nobody is watching so he grabs an item off the shelves he passes on his way to the door. He gets to the door and the receipt checker guy asks, "May I see your receipt, please". Another scenario is when someone takes a Wal-Mart bag into Wal-Mart, fills it with stuff, waits for the right time and heads for the door. I have done something very similar many times when I have paid for my stuff at the electronics department and walked freely past the cashiers and out the front door without anyone checking to see if I had indeed paid for what I was carrying. I hope that is clear enough for you to see how Mr. Receipt -Checker-Guy can help prevent theft. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #287 September 6, 2007 Quote One good bit of advice is never gob off about how well you know the law to a police officer. They know more obscure pieces of legislation than you can ever imagine, as that is their daily toolbox. It definitely depends on country - and, probably, on the officer skills. I have personally won three cases against police officers in Russia, and one case was dismissed. Maybe it is different in England, but it is not the same everywhere. The truth is, most officers I've seen only know a little bit of law, and their knowledge most time is based on what other officers tell/suggest them. They do not track changing laws, and might have no idea the law they were taught in the police academy five years ago (and applied it during all those five years) last year has been struck down by a court decision. Which is understandable though.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #288 September 6, 2007 Quote Which of his rights were violated in the store when they asked to see his receipt? It can't be too hard to figure out, right? This question has been answered more than five times. They have the right to ask you whatever, from showing the receipt to clean up the store for free. The point is that you are not required to do so, and you do not have to disclose the reasons.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #289 September 6, 2007 Quote Man makes his way through checkout line, pays for items rung up by cashier, takes his receipt and bag and makes his way toward the door. He notices the greeter.receipt checker is busy and nobody is watching so he grabs an item off the shelves he passes on his way to the door. He gets to the door and the receipt checker guy asks, "May I see your receipt, please". So the guy grabbed an item off the shelves he passes on his way to the door. He put it in a purse, in a pocket, or even in the bag. The receipt checker was busy and did not see this. Then the receipt checker asks to see his receipt. How seeing the receipt is going to help to prevent theft if the guy in question shows the receipt, but does not allow them to search him? How could it ever help if he shows the receipt, but does not allow them to look into his bag (which is definitely search)? Quote I have done something very similar many times when I have paid for my stuff at the electronics department and walked freely past the cashiers and out the front door without anyone checking to see if I had indeed paid for what I was carrying. I never shop in Walmart, so I wonder what will happen if you pay, tell the cashier you don't need a receipt (like I do in Safeway all the time), and go out? Should you also keep the receipt on the parking lot? Maybe when you go home too - after all, how could you prove to this nice police officer that you did not steal those chicken wings from your neighbor?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #290 September 6, 2007 Quote If the store layout were such that each checkout line exited through it's own doorway to the outside then you are absolutly right. But the store layout is something the store decides for themselves! So, according to you, the store itself makes it more vulnerable to theft? Quote There would be no reason to check for a receipt even if the cashier were crooked. There is exactly the reason if the cashiers were crooked. A typical crook case is that Mike is buying one 1Gb iPod ($50) and two 30Gb iPods ($250 each). His buddy Tom, working as a cashier there, scans the same 1Gb iPod three times. Mike pays $150 (instead of $550), packs his goods, and goes away. This is most typical store theft with crooked cashiers, and checking the receipt without cheching the bag content will not help to prevent it anyway. Quote It makes sense that a store put someone there to double check people as they leave to make sure they did indeed pay for what they are carrying. After all, that is their last chance to catch a thief before they leave the store. It will be much harder to prove the intention to steal if the person hasn't left the store yet, as the theft hasn't been completed. After all, there is a lot of time you're walking in the store carrying the merchanidse you haven't paid for yet, and it does not make you a thief. He could always say he was just about to look outside to see whether his buddy's car is still on the parking lot, and then return to the cashier, and pay for his stuff. So to have a valid shoplifting case they actually need to let the person to leave the store anyway.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #291 September 6, 2007 Quote It's private property. You give up certain rights when you enter private property. There is no law which says so, and you are not giving up any rights. The rights have to be given up explicitly, not implicitly. Otherwise no dropzone would ever need waivers - just have a sign posted like "by entering here you give up your rights to sue". It doesn't work this way though because of various reasons - you'll have to prove that the person has seen the policy, has understood it (what if he doesn't read English?), and has agreed to it knowing what he is doing. Quote You have the right to piss on your rug in your home but not at someone elses unless they give you that right. You could damage (piss on) your rug in your home, or you can break your iPod apart because you own it, and this is your property - not because the law gives you the right to piss on your rug, or break your iPod. If you buy an iPod in a store, you could break it right there the second after you paid for it. There is, however, a law against unlawful search, which gives you certain rights. So if you come to my house (private property), it does not mean that you have given this right, and I could search you whenever I want. See a difference? Quote You have the right against unlawful search, but asking for or even requiring a receipt is not a search. Since receipt became your property as soon as it is printed and given to you, requiring to see a receipt might be considered search. Asking for receipt is not, as asking to drop your pants. It is up to you to do so. Quote Once again, it is private property. You don't have the right to be there unless you abide by their rules. They have the rights to refuse you to enter the store. However by allowing you to enter the store they have implicitly waived this right.* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
willard 0 #292 September 6, 2007 So just what is your point in all this? That shoplifting is possible? Of course it is. That The stores can do more to stop it? Yep, but you won't like the increase in prices to pay for the extra security. Maybe your point is that no rights were violated when they asked to see his receipt? Agreed. But then why are so many here bitching about it? Checking a receipt agaist the contents of the bag is not a search but a verification that all that was paid for is there and nothing more. Don't want to go through that? Don't shop there. Lots of stores around, most don't check receipts. As for me, I'm not a whiny little snot nose crying because the mean man asked to see my receipt. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #293 September 6, 2007 QuoteBeing defiant towards a police officer is probable cause. No it's not. The freedom enjoyed in this country owes much to the concept of questioning authority.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #294 September 6, 2007 QuoteHow is showing your receipt equivalent to a search of your person? Ya gotta draw the line somewhere. Once the sale transaction is completed, the product and the receipt is my personal property. I choose what I do with it.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #295 September 6, 2007 QuoteThere is a HUGE difference between checking your bag against a receipt vs being searched. Is there? Say you're stoped in Circuit City and they want to look in your Circuit City bag, you let them. Next they want to look in your Macy's bag. Do you let them? Your back pack? Under your Jacket? Lift your shirt please? The line must be drawn somewhere.When the sale is completed transferance of ownership occurs. Once paid for they have no right whatsever to search you person or or property. If they choose to accuse you of theft they may do so, but they STILL may not make a search without your consent. Detaining you would be illegal as well.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 3,118 #296 September 6, 2007 >Say you're stoped in Circuit City and they want to look in your Circuit City >bag, you let them. Yes. >Next they want to look in your Macy's bag. Do you let them? If they like. >Your back pack? Nope, not unless there is a cop there with a good reason. >Under your Jacket? Nope. >Lift your shirt please? Nope. >The line must be drawn somewhere. Yes indeed. Drawing it at "what's in the shopping bag" is a good place. >When the sale is completed transferance of ownership occurs. Once paid >for they have no right whatsever to search you person or or property. Nonsense. If someone in Square One buys something, goes in the back, seems to grab something else, and walks out, then the people there will likely try to check his bag again. What would happen in the real world is that Dave would stop him and check in his bag. If he gave Dave lip, several skydivers would assist Dave in checking his bag. If there was nothing in it, then Dave would say "sorry" and the guy would be on his way. No fantasy world of strip searches, armed resistance, Kung Fu moves or SWAT teams. The real world isn't all that different. Common sense and all that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #297 September 6, 2007 Quote Drawing it at "what's in the shopping bag" is a good place. Sez you.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #298 September 6, 2007 QuoteI think what you are missing here is that the primary purpose is NOT to stop crooks. It is to catch human error. Items are scanned at the register. Sometimes they double scan the same item, other times they Miss scanning an item. The receipt check is a simple verification process. Count items ion receipt, Count items leavening the store. See if they match. That is what they are doing. You are NOT being searched. In no way, shape, form or fashion!! They are counting the items to make sure you got everything you paid for and that they rang up everything you have. If they find an extra item, You will most likely not even be accused of theft. they will just ask that you return and pay for the item. If you are missing an item, They can catcvh it before you leave and you can go back to the register and get your item that is probably still right by the end of the register. This is about reducing shrinkage. Not all shrinkage is due to theft. Much of it is due to human error at check out. Checking your receipt is NOT calling you a thief, It is NOT searching you. Then the stores need to hire more qualified people as checkers. Or have the checker double check their work? Check?---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #299 September 6, 2007 QuoteI WANT them to ask for ID when using a credit card. Checks? Anyone still writing checks needs to be kicked in the groin. Er...I still write one check a month. Rent. Would you believe they don't take cash! Don't get me started on THAT.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
base428 1 #300 September 6, 2007 Sorry for not posting this earlier, but I've been busy vomiting after reading some of the pansy responses in this thread. If you haven't kept up with Michael Righi's website updates, here's an email he received recently: To the people here who only care about status quo, about don’t rock the boat and d-d-d-do right, about a few tears in a moment of stress - you are cows. Myers-Briggs normal junkies; play along law-fodder, don’t stand out, homogenised, be sensible, inch deep, cattle. You deserve nothing you have lost, or will lose, as you cling to the illusory prairie you only wish you inhabited. There are mountains to be climbed in this existence, and eluding the grasp of people, who presume to own your individuality, counts as one of them. “Being Adult” must not include domestication. Adult cattle are still herded and fed to their masters. “Adult” must mean something more, a self-possessed state of independence and freedom of movement. Pragmatic passivity has become the modern life drug of choice; the one no wars will be fought against, if we leave it to you - because you love being hooked on indulgent expediency, because the authorities need your addiction and will never jail you for being a compliance junkie, and because you have an appointment somewhere more comfortably familiar, and apparently self-seving, than the realm of individuals. You see it as virtue, as maturity, but you dream. Michael Righi has stirred you from your dream and you resent it as you would if every day were Saturday and, inexplicably, your alarm just went off. And here's another great quote from some old guy: "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither" - Benjamin Franklin (c)2010 Vertical Visions. No unauthorized duplication permitted. <==For the media only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
