Media Bias Against Guns

[quade 4]

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Why did you preface that item as news; it was clearly an editorial.

I believe you're confusing the word editorial with propaganda.

So, let's all find out who it is we're actually dealing with here shall we?

The Culture and Media Institute is actually none other than the Media Research Center dressed up in other clothes and doing other extreme right wing "research" and yes, propaganda for other companys that are willing to pay them.

They are in no way an independant research media watchdog.

So, what JR has posted is a highly biased article about others being highly biased.

Yeah . . . that makes sense.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 23]

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John Lott was on Glen Beck this morning talking about many subjects. Among them being the reporting done compareing other countries to the US and how they skew the data. .

irony score 10/10. Lott's famous "More guns less crime" has been shown to be full of skewed data.

His a "peer reviewed" research is yet to be torn to pieces

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[mnealtx 0]

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Why did you preface that item as news; it was clearly an editorial.

I believe you're confusing the word editorial with propaganda.

So, let's all find out who it is we're actually dealing with here shall we?

The Culture and Media Institute is actually none other than the Media Research Center dressed up in other clothes and doing other extreme right wing "research" and yes, propaganda for other companys that are willing to pay them.

They are in no way an independant research media watchdog.

So, what JR has posted is a highly biased article about others being highly biased.

Yeah . . . that makes sense.

As opposed to the left wing Media Matters that is quoted so often?

Edit to add: Are you going to refute the data, or just attack the source?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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As opposed to the left wing Media Matters that is quoted so often?

If you could show me one instance of me ever quoting Media Matters, you'd maybe have a point.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

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As opposed to the left wing Media Matters that is quoted so often?

If you could show me one instance of me ever quoting Media Matters, you'd maybe have a point.

He didn't say you did.

OTOH can you give one example of when you have come out against someone using Media Matters as a source?

[quade 4]

The point is, I've pointed out that this article comes from questionable sources, especially on the topic of being biased.

If you'd like to do the same at other times, go right ahead, I won't stop you or even criticize you if you can show an article is bull shit propaganda. In fact, I'll applaude it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[mnealtx 0]

And where else would the information come from, Paul? The same 'free press' that overwhelmingly cites "facts" from places like the Brady campaign, VPC and their ilk?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

Facts should come from places without agendas.

Unfortunately, even the DOJ, FBI and ATF have an agenda when it comes to "proving" that crime has risen or fallen for various reasons.

My gripe with the media isn't that they're biased, it's that, for the most part, their bosses have pushed them to present material too quickly. With the pressures they have, it's all too easy to fall into the rip-n-read of crap assed propaganda newsletters and "think tanks."

If it was MY news service, the first policy I'd put into place is that absolutely NO story can have a single word in it that comes from prnewswire or the likes. If you do a search, I'm almost certain you can find where I've written about that numerous times before.

Believe it or not, this IS actually my main complaint about what JR does day after day here in this forum. He just copies and pastes stuff he reads. There is no actual enlightenment possible. There is no actual coversation possible, because it's NOT actually his thoughts. He's just parroting what others say.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kelpdiver 2]

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Earlier this year, Lott found himself facing serious criticism of his professional ethics. Pressed by critics, he failed to produce evidence of the existence of a survey -- which supposedly found that "98 percent of the time that people use guns defensively, they merely have to brandish a weapon to break off an attack" -- that he claimed to have conducted in the second edition of "More Guns, Less Crime". Lott then made matters even worse by posing as a former student, "Mary Rosh," and using the alias to attack his critics and defend his work online. When an Internet blogger exposed the ruse, the scientific community was outraged. Lott had created a "false identity for a scholar," charged Science editor-in-chief Donald Kennedy. "In most circles, this goes down as fraud."

Lott's recent baggage makes him an impeachable witness in the push to pass state-level right to carry laws, and raises questions about his broader body of work. Kennedy and others have even likened Lott to Michael Bellesiles, the Emory University historian who could not produce the data at the heart of his award-winning 2000 book "Arming America", which had seemed to undermine the notion that there was widespread gun ownership and usage in colonial America. But while Bellesiles resigned after a university panel challenged his credibility, thus far Lott has escaped a similar fate.

Tsck, tsck. Nothing more embarassing than being caught with your own internet sock puppet. Still, he has a long way to go to catch up with Bellesiles, who claimed sources that were burned in the 1906 Earthquake and made a preposterous claim that stood up to no scrutiny. Lott claims crime went down, which it did, but proving that concealed carry was the reason is the crux of the book and it definitely gets hidden under the presentation of data. I can see someone likening him to a magician who flashes a lot in your face while saying trust me.

On the other hand, I never cared if it helped. I only care that concealed carry doesn't hurt, and that's been made quite apparent.

And I have a bunch of gun free zone signs you can post on your lawn.

[kallend 2,183]

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John Lott was on Glen Beck this morning talking about many subjects. Among them being the reporting done compareing other countries to the US and how they skew the data. .

irony score 10/10. Lott's famous "More guns less crime" has been shown to be full of skewed data.

His a "peer reviewed" research is yet to be torn to pieces

Factually incorrect.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[penniless 0]

Media ARE plural, not singular. One of them is a medium.

[rushmc 23]

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John Lott was on Glen Beck this morning talking about many subjects. Among them being the reporting done compareing other countries to the US and how they skew the data. .

irony score 10/10. Lott's famous "More guns less crime" has been shown to be full of skewed data.

His a "peer reviewed" research is yet to be torn to pieces

Factually incorrect.

Your statement is in error. While there have been many attempts and many opinion pieces, reviews against his research has been superficial at best. Do some not agree with his conclusions but his data has yet to be debunked.

So, mince words if you wish but you are still in error

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[idrankwhat 0]

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As opposed to the left wing Media Matters that is quoted so often?

Awww, c'mon. You folks used to love David Brock when he wrote hit pieces for the right using hearsay and unverifiable sources. Now that he's swinging from the left and he provides citations he's a bad guy?!?!?!?

[kallend 2,183]

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John Lott was on Glen Beck this morning talking about many subjects. Among them being the reporting done compareing other countries to the US and how they skew the data. .

irony score 10/10. Lott's famous "More guns less crime" has been shown to be full of skewed data.

His a "peer reviewed" research is yet to be torn to pieces

Factually incorrect.

Your statement is in error. While there have been many attempts and many opinion pieces, reviews against his research has been superficial at best. Do some not agree with his conclusions but his data has yet to be debunked.

So, mince words if you wish but you are still in error

Still factually incorrect (like your unsupported claim about SUVs in another thread?). Still waiting for THAT source.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

Info from the IIHS for 2005:

Passenger vehicle occupant deaths, 2005

Cars 19,811
Pickups 6,075
SUVs 4,759
Other 677
Total 31,322

Data also shows more rollover deaths in pickups/SUVs (as stated up-thread) - the overall deaths are still lower for the SUV than for pickups/cars.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,183]

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Info from the IIHS for 2005:

Passenger vehicle occupant deaths, 2005

Cars 19,811
Pickups 6,075
SUVs 4,759
Other 677
Total 31,322

Data also shows more rollover deaths in pickups/SUVs (as stated up-thread) - the overall deaths are still lower for the SUV than for pickups/cars.

That is NOT what he claimed, is it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Info from the IIHS for 2005:

Passenger vehicle occupant deaths, 2005

Cars 19,811
Pickups 6,075
SUVs 4,759
Other 677
Total 31,322

Data also shows more rollover deaths in pickups/SUVs (as stated up-thread) - the overall deaths are still lower for the SUV than for pickups/cars.

1) Those are raw numbers. What's the ratio of cars to deaths vs. SUV's to deaths. If there are four times as many cars on the road than SUV's the numbers are almost equal.

2) Data are plural.

[JohnRich 4]

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Believe it or not, this IS actually my main complaint about what JR does day after day here in this forum. He just copies and pastes stuff he reads. There is no actual enlightenment possible. There is no actual coversation possible, because it's NOT actually his thoughts. He's just parroting what others say.

Then you're not paying enough attention. I add plenty of my own comments after starting a thread with a topical news item. I don't think anyone who's been here for a while has any doubts about my personal opinions on a wide variety of issues.

If I disappear from a conversation, it's because of comments like yours, above, that devolve into personal attacks, rather than discussion of the issue.

And for a moderator to do this, when you're supposed to be upholding rules against personal attacks, is shameless.

[mnealtx 0]

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Info from the IIHS for 2005:

Passenger vehicle occupant deaths, 2005

Cars 19,811
Pickups 6,075
SUVs 4,759
Other 677
Total 31,322

Data also shows more rollover deaths in pickups/SUVs (as stated up-thread) - the overall deaths are still lower for the SUV than for pickups/cars.

1) Those are raw numbers. What's the ratio of cars to deaths vs. SUV's to deaths. If there are four times as many cars on the road than SUV's the numbers are almost equal.

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Feel free to do those calculations yourself, if you want those numbers. The discussion was about number of deaths - I provided info.

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2) Data are plural.

Wow...no shit??

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[quade 4]

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Then you're not paying enough attention. I add plenty of my own comments after starting a thread with a topical news item.

I paid attention to your original post in this thread.

You might wanna scroll back and have a look at it, because it is in complete disagreement with what you've just stated.

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And for a moderator to do this, when you're supposed to be upholding rules against personal attacks, is shameless.

Why does it seem as if this the only response you can ever think up to anyone that disagrees with something you've posted?

People disagreeing with the crap you post isn't a personal attack. Get over it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 2,183]

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Info from the IIHS for 2005:

Passenger vehicle occupant deaths, 2005

Cars 19,811
Pickups 6,075
SUVs 4,759
Other 677
Total 31,322

Data also shows more rollover deaths in pickups/SUVs (as stated up-thread) - the overall deaths are still lower for the SUV than for pickups/cars.

1) Those are raw numbers. What's the ratio of cars to deaths vs. SUV's to deaths. If there are four times as many cars on the road than SUV's the numbers are almost equal.

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Feel free to do those calculations yourself, if you want those numbers. The discussion was about number of deaths - I provided info.

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2) Data are plural.

Wow...no shit??

According to:
AN ANALYSIS OF TRAFFIC DEATHS BY VEHICLE TYPE AND MODEL
Marc Ross, University of Michigan, Physics Department and
Tom Wenzel, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
ACEEE Report Number T021

Deaths per million occupants due to SUVs considerably exceed those due to passenger cars.

A study by the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) has calculated that some 950 "excess" deaths occur each year due to the presence of SUV's on the road instead of a corresponding number of ordinary cars.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[christelsabine 1]

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I never said anyone needed a gun to survive. I merely like having one so I can defend myself if need be. If you don't like guns that is all good. just let me keep mine in peace.

You may keep them in peace, of course. It's just the uncomfortable feeling I'd have beeing your neighbour knowing you are fully armed. In a normal environment. Such like my house, my garden, where I never need a weapon. And folks running around me carrying weapons are more than just a bit suspicious to me.

JFI: Beeing a hunter myself, I know how to keep weapons. But never in my home. That's just too dangerous. They are locked far away in the Alpine hut where I use to hunt. Where they will be used for that purpose. And not in my private life. I do not need to kill folks around me. Simple like that.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[mnealtx 0]

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According to:
AN ANALYSIS OF TRAFFIC DEATHS BY VEHICLE TYPE AND MODEL
Marc Ross, University of Michigan, Physics Department and
Tom Wenzel, Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory
ACEEE Report Number T021

Deaths per million occupants due to SUVs considerably exceed those due to passenger cars.

A study by the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) has calculated that some 950 "excess" deaths occur each year due to the presence of SUV's on the road instead of a corresponding number of ordinary cars.

How many of those "excess deaths" are the SUV occupants, since we're speaking of SUV's being safer than cars in collisions.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kallend 2,183]

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since we're speaking of SUV's being safer than cars in collisions.

Maybe we should move it to the SUV thread.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[mnealtx 0]

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since we're speaking of SUV's being safer than cars in collisions.

Maybe we should move it to the SUV thread.

I was just thinking that.... after you, Sir!!

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706