sv3n 0
Teenage drug use is way lower in Norway than in the US. The murder rate is lower, and the life expectancy is higher. I am pretty sure more terrorists are targeting the US than Norway. What kind of parent are you that you live in a place like that? Why aren't you moving to Norway? Is your patriotism more important than your child's safety?
sv3n 0
QuoteTeenage drug use is way lower in Norway than in the US. The murder rate is lower, and the life expectancy is higher. I am pretty sure more terrorists are targeting the US than Norway. What kind of parent are you that you live in a place like that? Why aren't you moving to Norway? Is your patriotism more important than your child's safety?
America is a big place my friend...............big cities and quality terrorist targets don't cover the whole country.
...and you're in violation of your face!
billvon 3,080
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>America is a big place my friend...............big cities and quality
>terrorist targets don't cover the whole country.
But pollution, drugs and crime do.
People avoid swimming because they're afraid of sharks, and instead sit at home, smoke, drink beer, eat chips and watch TV - thus putting themselves at much more risk. "What I do" is always judged as safe; "what other people do" is much more likely to be branded "dangerous." That paradigm generally does not result in a realistic view of relative risk.
Andrew's point is a good one - that any children you might have are more at risk (overall) living in the US than living in Norway. But US is "us" and Norway is "them" so we imagine that the bear threat overwhelms the risks to kids here. (And of course in both cases we're talking about low levels of risk to begin with.)
>terrorist targets don't cover the whole country.
But pollution, drugs and crime do.
People avoid swimming because they're afraid of sharks, and instead sit at home, smoke, drink beer, eat chips and watch TV - thus putting themselves at much more risk. "What I do" is always judged as safe; "what other people do" is much more likely to be branded "dangerous." That paradigm generally does not result in a realistic view of relative risk.
Andrew's point is a good one - that any children you might have are more at risk (overall) living in the US than living in Norway. But US is "us" and Norway is "them" so we imagine that the bear threat overwhelms the risks to kids here. (And of course in both cases we're talking about low levels of risk to begin with.)
JohnRich 4
Quotei get the impression that Americans want to see every single person carrying a gun "just in case" they ever need to defend themselves
Incorrect. Most Americans just want the freedom to choose for themselves whether or not to exercise that option. This does not mean that everyone should be forced to choose only one way.
And what's wrong with people having the tools necessary to save their lives when faced with an emergency?
JohnRich 4
Quotewhy not just move... the horror inflicted on someone who has to shoot a charging polar bear...
I think being eaten by a polar bear would be more traumatic than having to shoot a polar bear. As you hear the crunching sound of his teeth penetrating your skull, you're really going to think; "Darn, I sure wish I had a .44 magnum handgun right now."
With your "just move" philosophy", we could quickly abandon about half of the earth's surface, or more. Would you put all the Eskimos in public housing in Chicago? What about all the Africans which face lions and crocodiles? The Californians and cougars? Alaskans and bears? Heck, pretty soon the entire U.S. population woulc be crammed into Otumwa, Iowa.
And when it comes to predatory criminals, what happens when they follow us to where we've moved? Does the entire population have to then become gypsies, constantly on the run from criminals?
No. Far better to stand and fight for your family and community. Make the criminals be the ones to go on the run.
billvon 3,080
>And what's wrong with people having the tools necessary to save their
>lives when faced with an emergency?
Nothing at all! And if you want to take your rig and helmet with you on commercial flights, and don them shortly after takeoff, fine with me. (The flight crew might look at you funny though . . .)
Of course, if that parachute makes you confident enough to fly sketchy part-135 airlines, it may do you more harm than good.
>lives when faced with an emergency?
Nothing at all! And if you want to take your rig and helmet with you on commercial flights, and don them shortly after takeoff, fine with me. (The flight crew might look at you funny though . . .)
Of course, if that parachute makes you confident enough to fly sketchy part-135 airlines, it may do you more harm than good.
sv3n 0
Nowhere in my statement did I say move out of Norway.....that was somebody else's assumption......I simply said move, as in a place where your kids don't have to walk around armed because they might get mauled by a polar bear.
Pollution, drugs, and crime are everywhere in the world...........but as with the rest of the world, smaller towns and remote locations aren't affected by them or are affected very little by them.
And you're right, if you were to throw a kid in Compton from Norway he'd probably be in some danger.............now put that in reverse, take some kid from compton and throw him in Norway's polar bear country.....................while it might make a great comedy movie plot, realistically they're both just out of their environment.
Personally, I think it's a good idea to arm these kids and train them to protect themselves..................but if it were my child I would just choose to move. There's no sense putting your child through that.
Pollution, drugs, and crime are everywhere in the world...........but as with the rest of the world, smaller towns and remote locations aren't affected by them or are affected very little by them.
And you're right, if you were to throw a kid in Compton from Norway he'd probably be in some danger.............now put that in reverse, take some kid from compton and throw him in Norway's polar bear country.....................while it might make a great comedy movie plot, realistically they're both just out of their environment.
Personally, I think it's a good idea to arm these kids and train them to protect themselves..................but if it were my child I would just choose to move. There's no sense putting your child through that.
Quote>America is a big place my friend...............big cities and quality
>terrorist targets don't cover the whole country.
But pollution, drugs and crime do.
People avoid swimming because they're afraid of sharks, and instead sit at home, smoke, drink beer, eat chips and watch TV - thus putting themselves at much more risk. "What I do" is always judged as safe; "what other people do" is much more likely to be branded "dangerous." That paradigm generally does not result in a realistic view of relative risk.
Andrew's point is a good one - that any children you might have are more at risk (overall) living in the US than living in Norway. But US is "us" and Norway is "them" so we imagine that the bear threat overwhelms the risks to kids here. (And of course in both cases we're talking about low levels of risk to begin with.)
...and you're in violation of your face!
sv3n 0
QuoteQuotewhy not just move... the horror inflicted on someone who has to shoot a charging polar bear...
I think being eaten by a polar bear would be more traumatic than having to shoot a polar bear. As you hear the crunching sound of his teeth penetrating your skull, you're really going to think; "Darn, I sure wish I had a .44 magnum handgun right now."
With your "just move" philosophy", we could quickly abandon about half of the earth's surface, or more. Would you put all the Eskimos in public housing in Chicago? What about all the Africans which face lions and crocodiles? The Californians and cougars? Alaskans and bears? Heck, pretty soon the entire U.S. population woulc be crammed into Otumwa, Iowa.
And when it comes to predatory criminals, what happens when they follow us to where we've moved? Does the entire population have to then become gypsies, constantly on the run from criminals?
No. Far better to stand and fight for your family and community. Make the criminals be the ones to go on the run.
While I have no problem pursuing your philosophy of fighting for you community and family personally.............I don't feel it's my child's responsibility and it's not right to put them in that position. You gotta choose your battles...........and your child should be your number one deciding factor.
ps - by moving out of bear country you wouldn't get mauled by a bear.
...and you're in violation of your face!
Amazon 7
QuotePollution, drugs, and crime are everywhere in the world...........but as with the rest of the world, smaller towns and remote locations aren't affected by them or are affected very little by them.
Negatory there.. there are MANY places in rural areas that are very polluted.... have very high crime rates due to the METH epedemic in those areas.. its very very prevalent in small town America
Here lets put in a local perspective for you...
http://www.city-data.com/forum/wisconsin/2568-major-meth-epedemic-chippewa-falls.html
sv3n 0
While it is spreading out into the rural communities and the suburbs.........I think we can both agree that every small town and every remote location is not affected by them. Note how I didn't use words like all or none in my original statement.
QuoteQuotePollution, drugs, and crime are everywhere in the world...........but as with the rest of the world, smaller towns and remote locations aren't affected by them or are affected very little by them.
Negatory there.. there are MANY places in rural areas that are very polluted.... have very high crime rates due to the METH epedemic in those areas.. its very very prevalent in small town America
...and you're in violation of your face!
steve1 5
Where there's a will there's a way.........if kids started getting eaten by whatever in my neighborhood......regardless of where I was at in life....regardless of all the awesome things I've done to our house.......regardless of how good my job was.........regardless of all the friends I had in the vacinity.....................I would move. Your child should be more important than any of those. And while things might be tough for a bit, it's worth it. No need to overcomplicate things. Just the thought of your child being eaten alive by a bear and having to live for those few seconds in pain............I would fight that bear with a f'ing spoon so my kid wouldn't have to go through that. As if I'm gonna let my child's safety be dictated by some life circumstances.
..........................................................
The thing is though, whereever you live there are dangers. If your child was in danger of being run over...would you teach him how to cross a street safely....or would you just move.
If a child in your neighborhood was hit by lightning would you suddenly pack all your stuff and move to a place with less lightning....or would you teach your child how to avoid lightning when it happens.
Just because a person packs a weapon in bear country doesn't mean they are in grave danger of being attacked by a bear. These kids have been taught what to do if just such a threat happens, by people who care about them.
I truly doubt that you love your kids any more, just because you are willing to move at the drop of a hat.
For example Eskimo and other native people have dealt with dangers on the ice pack for thousands of years. Polar bears have always been a threat. Firearms help keep both they and their children safe.
Don't expect any of them to turn tale and run to the safety of the white man's world, just because there are bears in their area. They know how to effectively deal with that threat.
It is a great credit to you, that you are willing to do whatever it takes to keep your kids safe. I just don't think moving is the only answer....Steve1
billvon 3,080
>Personally, I think it's a good idea to arm these kids and train them to
>protect themselves.....
I agree. But if someone found out you lived in (say) Montana, they might suggest you move out of grizzly bear territory because there's no reason to put your kids through that. If you lived in Philadelphia? Move before they get sold drugs. Why put kids through that?
Louisiana? Move before they drown. Los Angeles? Move before a quake kills them. New York? Move before terrorists hit the building they're in.
Danger lurks everywhere. And everywhere there are fearful people who want escape parachutes for high rises, guns for self-defense, earthquake proof beds for apartments etc etc. But the existence of those preventative measures are often to counter a threat that is more perceived than real - and living in such a place is not equivalent to putting kids at risk.
>protect themselves.....
I agree. But if someone found out you lived in (say) Montana, they might suggest you move out of grizzly bear territory because there's no reason to put your kids through that. If you lived in Philadelphia? Move before they get sold drugs. Why put kids through that?
Louisiana? Move before they drown. Los Angeles? Move before a quake kills them. New York? Move before terrorists hit the building they're in.
Danger lurks everywhere. And everywhere there are fearful people who want escape parachutes for high rises, guns for self-defense, earthquake proof beds for apartments etc etc. But the existence of those preventative measures are often to counter a threat that is more perceived than real - and living in such a place is not equivalent to putting kids at risk.
craddock 0
I have lived most of my life in Chippewa Falls and I have never seen Meth. I am now very curious about this.
That spot isn't bad at all, the winds were strong and that was the issue! It was just on the downwind side.
Amazon 7
Many small towns in Washington State have severe problems with it.. and the crime assosciated with it is rampant. This is a nationwide issue.
Here they passed laws to prevent the sale of Ephedrine... that has cut down on the meth labs greatly.
Out in the country there is distance between houses so the toxic fumes from cooking the stuff has a chance to dissapate before the neighbors smell it. A lot of homeowners renting houses out in the stix have found their houses used as labs and rendered them as toxic sites needing to be torn down.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/washington.html
Here they passed laws to prevent the sale of Ephedrine... that has cut down on the meth labs greatly.
Out in the country there is distance between houses so the toxic fumes from cooking the stuff has a chance to dissapate before the neighbors smell it. A lot of homeowners renting houses out in the stix have found their houses used as labs and rendered them as toxic sites needing to be torn down.
http://www.usdoj.gov/dea/pubs/states/washington.html
mnealtx 0
"houses used as labs and rendered them as toxic sites needing to be torn down. "
WOW - I knew it was bad shit, but I didn't know it was THAT bad!!!
WOW - I knew it was bad shit, but I didn't know it was THAT bad!!!
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Amazon 7
Sometimes you can clean it up but its expensive.. and you may never get the crap out of the structure....and it endangers the health of anyone who moves into the house in the future...sometimes they just tear it all down and start new rather than take the health risk.
http://www.tpchd.org/page.php?id=185
http://www.tpchd.org/page.php?id=185
mnealtx 0
Can't blame them for that!
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
sv3n 0
QuoteThe thing is though, whereever you live there are dangers. If your child was in danger of being run over...would you teach him how to cross a street safely....or would you just move.
If a child in your neighborhood was hit by lightning would you suddenly pack all your stuff and move to a place with less lightning....or would you teach your child how to avoid lightning when it happens.
Just because a person packs a weapon in bear country doesn't mean they are in grave danger of being attacked by a bear. These kids have been taught what to do if just such a threat happens, by people who care about them.
I truly doubt that you love your kids any more, just because you are willing to move at the drop of a hat.
For example Eskimo and other native people have dealt with dangers on the ice pack for thousands of years. Polar bears have always been a threat. Firearms help keep both they and their children safe.
Don't expect any of them to turn tale and run to the safety of the white man's world, just because there are bears in their area. They know how to effectively deal with that threat.
It is a great credit to you, that you are willing to do whatever it takes to keep your kids safe. I just don't think moving is the only answer....Steve1
You could take it even further too........if your kid got a papercut would you still allow him to use paper.....but let's cut the BS.
Anyways........yes, there are tons of other dangers out there............hurricanes, avalanches (mud or snow), etc.. But this article deals with kids having to be trained to protect themselves from polar bears. Like I said, I think it's a good thing that these people are training their kids......but if there's a threat of getting eaten on the way to class, I wouldn't put my child in that danger. As far as moving.....I don't think it's the only answer, but I do believe it's another option.
...and you're in violation of your face!
sv3n 0
Quote>Personally, I think it's a good idea to arm these kids and train them to
>protect themselves.....
I agree. But if someone found out you lived in (say) Montana, they might suggest you move out of grizzly bear territory because there's no reason to put your kids through that. If you lived in Philadelphia? Move before they get sold drugs. Why put kids through that?
Louisiana? Move before they drown. Los Angeles? Move before a quake kills them. New York? Move before terrorists hit the building they're in.
Danger lurks everywhere. And everywhere there are fearful people who want escape parachutes for high rises, guns for self-defense, earthquake proof beds for apartments etc etc. But the existence of those preventative measures are often to counter a threat that is more perceived than real - and living in such a place is not equivalent to putting kids at risk.
We tend to live in a society that's not very big into preventative action...........now I'm not sure about Norway...........but would suspect that it probably happened to someone.
And you are right, danger does lurk everywhere.........but there are ways to minimize that danger. I know tons of parents that have moved when they found out they were going to have a child to provide their child a safer and better environment to grow up in. As a parent one looks at those things. And if a new danger was to arise, you'd have to look at that and figure out a solution.......arming them is one, moving is another.
...and you're in violation of your face!
QuoteHere they passed laws to prevent the sale of Ephedrine... that has cut down on the meth labs greatly.
You mean the "Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005", that was passed by a Republican controlled House and signed into law by President George W. Bush?
steve1 5
I'm not really saying that there is never a time to move with your kids. If I lived in a crack neighborhood I'd sure as heck find a way to get out of there.
But whereever you live there may be threats. It might be even an irrigation ditch where your kids can drown. As parents we all evaluate those threats and decide what the best option is for our kids.
I've lived close to bear country all my life. My Dad's camp was raided by a grizzly once. I've known more than one person who has stopped a charging Grizzly with their rifle. I knew another guy who spent most of a day in a tree when he was chased up there by a Grizzly. I even know one guy who was chewed up by one.
Usually when I go into Grizzly country I pack a weapon, but many times not. The threat isn't that big. I also know that if you spend enough time in bear country, something can happen. That's the one reason I often pack a weapon.
I often times take my kids into bear country. They have had it drilled into their heads many times what to do when a bear shows up. When they were younger they weren't packing guns, but I was with them. And yes, I had a pistol.
Now that they are older, they too carry a pistol in bear country. They've been taught since childhood how to shoot and carry a gun safely, and it is what people often do in Montana. This may seem foreign to one who has never been around guns, but with proper training it can be done very safely.
My oldest daughter is moving to California as we speak. She also has a pistol in her car, for protection from two legged predators. I wish she had chosen to stay in Montana. I think it's a whole lot safer here. I'll bet the people in Polar Bear country feel the same way.....Steve1
But whereever you live there may be threats. It might be even an irrigation ditch where your kids can drown. As parents we all evaluate those threats and decide what the best option is for our kids.
I've lived close to bear country all my life. My Dad's camp was raided by a grizzly once. I've known more than one person who has stopped a charging Grizzly with their rifle. I knew another guy who spent most of a day in a tree when he was chased up there by a Grizzly. I even know one guy who was chewed up by one.
Usually when I go into Grizzly country I pack a weapon, but many times not. The threat isn't that big. I also know that if you spend enough time in bear country, something can happen. That's the one reason I often pack a weapon.
I often times take my kids into bear country. They have had it drilled into their heads many times what to do when a bear shows up. When they were younger they weren't packing guns, but I was with them. And yes, I had a pistol.
Now that they are older, they too carry a pistol in bear country. They've been taught since childhood how to shoot and carry a gun safely, and it is what people often do in Montana. This may seem foreign to one who has never been around guns, but with proper training it can be done very safely.
My oldest daughter is moving to California as we speak. She also has a pistol in her car, for protection from two legged predators. I wish she had chosen to stay in Montana. I think it's a whole lot safer here. I'll bet the people in Polar Bear country feel the same way.....Steve1
Amazon 7
QuoteYou mean the "Combat Methamphetamine Epidemic Act of 2005", that was passed by a Republican controlled House and signed into law by President George W. Bush?
Nope that was a Johny come lately to the party attempt..
http://www.methpedia.org/wsmi.php
The Washington State Methamphetamine Initiative (WSMI) was initially formed in 2000 by a group of law enforcement, treatment and prevention professionals who were experiencing, first hand, the negative impacts of methamphetamine in neighborhoods, families and the criminal justice system. After gaining support from our Congressional delegation, these individuals agreed that unless they could fully realize the institutionalization of a “community” based approach they would fail at addressing the far reaching negative impacts of meth. To that end, WSMI developed a five year proposal to fund a comprehensive interdisciplinary approach to addressing the environmental, neighborhoods, individual and institutional impacts of meth.
No other state has taken such an aggressive and far-reaching approach to methamphetamine.
More laws were passed after that. It has helped.. now the meth is an import from Canadian or Mexican labs.
Let's put it this way.......what's more important where you live or your child's safety?
..............................................................
I get your point. I don't think things are as simple as that though. There's many well meaning people who love their kids, who find themselves trapped in the life they lead and the place they live. I think there are plenty of examples of that.
Life in Polar Bear country may also be safer than you think. Possibly it is as safe as living in many big cities.....Steve1
Where there's a will there's a way.........if kids started getting eaten by whatever in my neighborhood......regardless of where I was at in life....regardless of all the awesome things I've done to our house.......regardless of how good my job was.........regardless of all the friends I had in the vacinity.....................I would move. Your child should be more important than any of those. And while things might be tough for a bit, it's worth it. No need to overcomplicate things. Just the thought of your child being eaten alive by a bear and having to live for those few seconds in pain............I would fight that bear with a f'ing spoon so my kid wouldn't have to go through that. As if I'm gonna let my child's safety be dictated by some life circumstances.