Those Muslims speaking out against extremism

[wmw999 2,589]

Are on PBS. Tonight on Houston's channel 8, and I'm assuming that means they'll be on other PBS stations as well.
program here
Me? Well, I was looking to see if "Antiques Roadshow" was on tonight...

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[rushmc 23]

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Are on PBS. Tonight on Houston's channel 8, and I'm assuming that means they'll be on other PBS stations as well.
program here
Me? Well, I was looking to see if "Antiques Roadshow" was on tonight...

Wendy W.

As the non extreemist begin to feel some level of safety they are speeking out more and more. That is what the US is causing in Iraq. It is only the beginning

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 3,120]

>As the non extreemist begin to feel some level of safety they are
>speeking out more and more.

They have been speaking out since 9/11. Some people, however, cannot hear them; such statements contradict their prejudices and are thus overlooked.

[Remster 30]

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As the non extreemist begin to feel some level of safety they are speeking out more and more.

You are right. I am sure the nonestremists in "North America, Canada, and Western Europe" feel a whole lot safer with what the US is causing in Iraq

Remster

[rushmc 23]

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As the non extreemist begin to feel some level of safety they are speeking out more and more.

You are right. I am sure the nonestremists in "North America, Canada, and Western Europe" feel a whole lot safer with what the US is causing in Iraq

Good! Cause they should

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Gawain 0]

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>As the non extreemist begin to feel some level of safety they are
>speeking out more and more.

They have been speaking out since 9/11. Some people, however, cannot hear them; such statements contradict their prejudices and are thus overlooked.

Yeah, their voices united, in an overwhelming display against the extremism...I wonder why the press ignores it...

In fact, there's an Op-Ed piece from the Chicago Tribune which cites some very good reasons why there isn't a march in the streets: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-denounce_newjul29,0,5501897.story

However, even this person claims the masses speak to some degree. When I did a Google search on "muslims speak against extremism" -- it turned only on mainstream media piece from a Glenn Beck transcript: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0703/05/gb.01.html

The message is not getting out, and there are precious few who are speaking out. It may be circumstance, it is certainly choice as well.

These mind-sets won't go away over night, but the change has to start in the very culture we've been seeing erode, especially over the past 30 years.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Remster 30]

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As the non extreemist begin to feel some level of safety they are speeking out more and more.

You are right. I am sure the nonestremists in "North America, Canada, and Western Europe" feel a whole lot safer with what the US is causing in Iraq

Goo! Cause they should

Nice fantasy world you have there.

Remster

[jenfly00 0]

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As the non extreemist begin to feel some level of safety they are speeking out more and more.

You are right. I am sure the nonestremists in "North America, Canada, and Western Europe" feel a whole lot safer with what the US is causing in Iraq

Goo! Cause they should

Nice fantasy world you have there.

I don't know how nice it is ...but it certainly has a lot of square footage.

-----------------------
"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[Skyrad 0]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/...k/article1053909.ece

http://www.islamfortoday.com/terrorism.htm

http://www.freemuslims.org/

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/435

http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

http://www.unite-against-terror.com/

http://atheism.about.com/b/a/128216.htm

http://www.maat.r8.org/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3586703.stm

http://www.int-review.org/terr42a.html

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/...test-in-bahrain.html

http://www.awesomelibrary.org/Muslims.html

http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/...tration-against.html

http://adloyada.typepad.com/...150000_muslims_.html

There you go Max, try Muslims against terror/terrorism instead.

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[billvon 3,120]

>I wonder why the press ignores it...

They haven't. Readers have ignored what the press is publishing. It all depends on what pushes your buttons. Pro-war types, for example, might well skim past an editorial by a muslim professor that criticizes religious extremism, then latch onto an article critical of an action taken by US troops so they can claim "the press hates the troops!" (Anti-war types, of course, might do the exact opposite.)

>The message is not getting out, and there are precious few who
>are speaking out.

The message may well not be getting out, but I think a big part of it is active denial by some people that muslims are, in fact, speaking out against it. I work with several, and they are quite unanimous in their condemnation of religious extremism.

[NCclimber 0]

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>I wonder why the press ignores it...

They haven't. Readers have ignored what the press is publishing.

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The message may well not be getting out, but I think a big part of it is active denial by some people that muslims are, in fact, speaking out against it. I work with several, and they are quite unanimous in their condemnation of religious extremism.

Speaking of ignoring what people are saying, I notice you consistently ignore my posts that directly question your assertions.

Last week, you made a post about "105 fatwas from Islamic scholars, 75 statements by Islamic Organizations (many of these signed by anywhere from 50 to 500 scholars from around the world), and 142 statements by individual Muslims" condemning violence.

I pointed out that I had checked out the page with the 105 Fatwas. Going by the subject given for each fatwa, a whopping 40 were about the Danish cartoons and merely 5 were about Bin Laden. IOW the Danish carToons recieved eight times as many fatwas as Bin Laden.

I guess you didn't think it was relevant the clear favorite had to do with a cartoon, while the fatwas condemning Bin Laden were so low.

It's easy to say lots of Muslim leaders are speaking out against violence. When you look a little closer, that simplified message seems a bit misleading.

STOP THE CARTOONS!!![/RED]

[billvon 3,120]

>Last week, you made a post about "105 fatwas from Islamic scholars . . .

It was actually a quote from the linked article.

"Going by the subject given for each fatwa, a whopping 40 were about the Danish cartoons and merely 5 were about Bin Laden. IOW the Danish carToons recieved eight times as many fatwas as Bin Laden."

Well:

1) We're talking about Muslims against extremism in all forms, whether Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, Al Qaeda in Iraq, sectarian killings etc. See the first post, and check the title of this one.

2) Far more than five are about Bin Laden anyway; I fear you are exhibiting that selective reading I was discussing earlier. A few samples from the links you claim show this: (I count 9 condemnations here alone)

"Islam strictly condemns religious extremism and the use of violence against innocent lives."

"The undersigned, leaders of Islamic movements, are horrified by the events of Tuesday 11 September 2001 in the United States which resulted in massive killing, destruction and attack on innocent lives. We express our deepest sympathies and sorrow. We condemn, in the strongest terms, the incidents, which are against all human and Islamic norms."

"As American Muslims and scholars of Islam, we wish to restate our conviction that peace and justice constitute the basic principles of the Muslim faith. We wish again to state unequivocally that neither the al-Qaeda organization nor Usama bin Laden represents Islam or reflects Muslim beliefs and practice."

"The Qur'an teaches human beings to 'stand up as witnesses for God,' even if it be against themselves. Being a witness for God, to me, includes standing up against injustice, oppression, and tyranny--whatever the form, and whoever the perpetrators."

"Islam stresses public order and the rule of the law. Terrorism destroys this social order and decreases the tranquility of life that Islam emphasizes."

"Terrorism isn't part of our religion, and never has been."

"Islam condemns the abuse of religion by fanatics whose purpose is to rouse hate and beget further violence. Nothing is as antithetical to all religion as when wanton violence is wreaked by extremists."

"American Muslims utterly condemn what are apparently vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians. We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators. No political cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts."

"These attacks are against both divine and human laws and we condemn them in the strongest terms. The Muslim Americans join the nation in calling for swift apprehension and stiff punishment of the perpetrators, and offer our sympathies to the victims and their families."

"The Washington based American Muslims for Jerusalem (AMJ) is appalled and strongly condemns the terrorist attacks in New York, Washington, and other parts of the country. AMJ sends out its deepest condolences to the families of the victims of these cowardly attacks."

"The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) joins Muslim Americans and all Americans in expressing its deep sorrow over the apparently deliberate air-crashes in New York and Washington, DC that have led to the loss of countless innocent lives.

"ISNA joins Muslim organizations throughout North America in condemning theses apparent terrorist attacks and calls upon Muslim Americans to come forward with their skills and resources to help alleviate the sufferings of the affected people and their families."

"The Islamic Circle of North America (ICNA), condemns in the strongest possible way the heinous and horrific acts of terrorism that occurred in New York City and Washington, D.C."

"Islamic Shura (Consultative) Council of Southern California (ISCSC) on the behalf of all Masajid (Mosques) and Muslim community in Southern California joining Muslims around the country to condemns the latest cowardly acts of terrorism against innocent civilians."

[NCclimber 0]

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2) Far more than five are about Bin Laden anyway; I fear you are exhibiting that selective reading I was discussing earlier.

On the page with all the fatwas, each fatwa stated the subject matter. Your fears are unfounded.

But speaking of selective reading, a few weeks back you posted a link claiming 2005 (or was it 2006?) was the warmest year on record. It was convenient that you overlooked that it was for US temps, not global temps.

[billvon 3,120]

>a few weeks back you posted a link claiming 2005 (or was it 2006?)
>was the warmest year on record. It was convenient that you overlooked
>that it was for US temps, not global temps.

Incorrect again! I was referring to global temps. 2005 was either the warmest on record (per NASA) or the second (per the WMO.)

In order to not derail this thread, I would suggest revisiting that thread if you wish to debate it further.

[virgin-burner 1]

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As the non extreemist begin to feel some level of safety they are speeking out more and more.

You are right. I am sure the nonestremists in "North America, Canada, and Western Europe" feel a whole lot safer with what the US is causing in Iraq

Goo! Cause they should

Nice fantasy world you have there.

yea, and might need some more planes crashing in their skyscrapers, might change the point of view..

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

[skydyvr 0]

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might need some more planes crashing in their skyscrapers, might change the point of view..

That's a pretty disgusting comment -- says a lot about you.

But that aside, have you ever wondered why they're NOT?

. . =(_8^(1)

[Remster 30]

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But that aside, have you ever wondered why they're NOT?

It must be that the soldiers in Iraq are acting as bullet plane sponges.

Remster

[skydyvr 0]

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It must be that the soldiers in Iraq are acting as bullet plane sponges.

Absolutely, and it's a damn shame all the way around.

. . =(_8^(1)

[jgoose71 0]

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>I wonder why the press ignores it...

They haven't. Readers have ignored what the press is publishing. It all depends on what pushes your buttons. Pro-war types, for example, might well skim past an editorial by a muslim professor that criticizes religious extremism, then latch onto an article critical of an action taken by US troops so they can claim "the press hates the troops!" (Anti-war types, of course, might do the exact opposite.)

>The message is not getting out, and there are precious few who
>are speaking out.

The message may well not be getting out, but I think a big part of it is active denial by some people that muslims are, in fact, speaking out against it. I work with several, and they are quite unanimous in their condemnation of religious extremism.

There are a lotof muslims speaking out. The problem is that its hard to hear them amidst all the news articles about the attacks and body counts. I wonder what it would do for the morale of the extremists if there actions were ignored in the press for a while and all the positive news coming from the middle east were on the front page for a while

"There is an art, it says, or, rather, a knack to flying. The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss."
Life, the Universe, and Everything

[billvon 3,120]

>The problem is that its hard to hear them amidst all the news
>articles about the attacks and body counts.

Top 16 articles on CNN today:

Latest News

* Hurricane force winds hit Jamaica
* Helicopter rescues, drops flood victims Video
* Upper Midwest floods kill four
* Rescue leader: Miners likely may not be found
* Hurricane forces shuttle to leave early
* U.S. heat wave claims 44 lives
* Israel turns away Darfur refugees
* Super box-office debut for no-name cast
* Official: Afghan police free German captive
* Man's journey to faith leads to FBI
* New bride happily ruins $800 wedding gown Video
* WLKY: Schools crack down on MySpace bullying
* Stem cells get hurt racehorse back on track Video
* Ticker: Clinton: Karl Rove 'obsessed with me'
* Protesters go nude -- on a glacier Video
* CNN Wire: Latest updates on top stories

I don't think news on attacks and body counts is exactly "drowning out" other news; today there were no such reports in the top 16. It's more that people aren't interested in what academics have to say about terrorism. (At least, they're a lot more interested in the latest "baby down the well" story.)

>I wonder what it would do for the morale of the extremists if there
>actions were ignored in the press for a while and all the positive news
>coming from the middle east were on the front page for a
>while . . .

Well, if one of their goals is elimination of a free press, I'd imagine they'd be dancing in the streets, celebrating the fact that they met one of their goals.

Edited to add:

Here's what people who have actually been there think about press coverage in Iraq:
--------------------------------------------
As responsible infantrymen and noncommissioned officers with the 82nd Airborne Division soon heading back home, we are skeptical of recent press coverage portraying the conflict as increasingly manageable and feel it has neglected the mounting civil, political and social unrest we see every day. (Obviously, these are our personal views and should not be seen as official within our chain of command.)

The claim that we are increasingly in control of the battlefields in Iraq is an assessment arrived at through a flawed, American-centered framework. Yes, we are militarily superior, but our successes are offset by failures elsewhere.
---------------------------------------------

While it is sad that the press is exaggerating our successes and minimizing our defeats, it's preferable to a state-run press that would keep us in the dark more often than not.

[crwtom 0]

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There you go Max, try Muslims against terror/terrorism instead.

aied on Al Jazeera

Thought I add this ... quite forceful (and she's not speaking from the safe distance of western residence or wester media).

*******************************************************************
Fear causes hesitation, and hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true

[tbrown 26]

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>As the non extreemist begin to feel some level of safety they are
>speeking out more and more.

They have been speaking out since 9/11. Some people, however, cannot hear them; such statements contradict their prejudices and are thus overlooked.

Bill, I have no doubt the majority of Muslims in America are peace loving and law abiding citizens. But right here in Orange County, this same community is harboring people who have made serious death threats against a woman in their own community who has raised her voice against the same extreme interpretations of their faith.

I simply cannot accept this silence and complicity. If american Muslims are truly peaceful and law abiding, then it's time for them to prove it and DO SOMETHING about the minority of assholes who are dragging their collective reputation down the drain.

Bill, I shop at King's Market in Westminster, because the quality of the foods, and especially the meats, is incredible. And the people are friendly. So WHY are they harboring these people who threaten to kill a woman for what she's saying ? I'm really troubled by that.

It's not prejudice, it's real. So cut the liberal "why can't we all just get along" bullshit and talk to the real issues. Which is that real civilized people of any and all faiths don't tolerate this kind of crap.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !