Gun Control?

[mnealtx 0]

Deadlines set by Harris? Bullshit.

First off... Florida had to certify results before Dec 12 or not have their electors allowed to cast their ballot.

Secondly... Perhaps you can explain how Harris could unilaterally make Florida law, and how she could implement said law 9 years before she became Secretary of State? (Earliest history I could find on the state law was '89, Harris became Secretary of State in '98)

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

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Deadlines set by Harris? Bullshit.

First off... Florida had to certify results before Dec 12 or not have their electors allowed to cast their ballot.

Secondly... Perhaps you can explain how Harris could unilaterally make Florida law, and how she could implement said law 9 years before she became Secretary of State? (Earliest history I could find on the state law was '89, Harris became Secretary of State in '98)

It apears this is a lost cause due to Bush derangement syndrom

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sv3n 0]

Quote

Deadlines set by Harris? Bullshit.

First off... Florida had to certify results before Dec 12 or not have their electors allowed to cast their ballot.

Secondly... Perhaps you can explain how Harris could unilaterally make Florida law, and how she could implement said law 9 years before she became Secretary of State? (Earliest history I could find on the state law was '89, Harris became Secretary of State in '98)

"BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Carol, Leon, good morning to you. I made the comment last hour we all may need a law degree before this is over, and it looks like that may indeed be the case.

As you mentioned, Katherine Harris has petitioned the state supreme court in Florida to take over all legal matters regarding the vote here, regarding election 2000 in the state of Florida. In addition to that, at 2:00 Eastern time today, about six hours from now, that is the deadline Katherine Harris has given certain counties in Florida, the deadline to get a letter of justification into her office as to why that recount should continue." CNN transcript....here's the linkhttp://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0011/15/bn.04.html

...and you're in violation of your face!

[sv3n 0]

Quote

It apears this is a lost cause due to Bush derangement syndrom

You are right that it's a lost cause......you're not willing to read facts. Good sheep.... bah, bah.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[mnealtx 0]

Perhaps (as mentioned so often in this thread) you should actually go READ the law involved. Just trying to keep you from getting any more egg on your face.

I'll give you the thumbnail version:

1. November 7th was the election.

2. Florida state law says that there is a 1 week deadline to complete recounts. The first complete count on November 8th triggered a recount.

3. November 15th is 1 week after November 8th. See #2, above.

Hope this clears things up for you.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[rushmc 23]

Quote

Perhaps (as mentioned so often in this thread) you should actually go READ the law involved. Just trying to keep you from getting any more egg on your face.

I'll give you the thumbnail version:

1. November 7th was the election.

2. Florida state law says that there is a 1 week deadline to complete recounts. The first complete count on November 8th triggered a recount.

3. November 15th is 1 week after November 8th. See #2, above.

Hope this clears things up for you.

OK, just to clear it up for you. I am not and have not argued about whether a recount was called for or legal. I am saying that Gore was calling for a recount of just a few targeted counties. (Miami, Dade and Brower) THAT IS NOT LEGAL under Florida law. He did not want a full state recount only a few counties. Only the counties he thought he would benifit from.

Need a towel?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kelpdiver 2]

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Quote

Gore lost! Get over it

No. Bush was declared the president by the Supreme Court. We don't actually know who won or lost the election.

Sure we do. Post election local newspapers continued to do their own counts into the spring. Bush still won.

As I said, you can debate the issues on voter eligibility, but the election tally is about counting actual votes cast, not how many votes you can get if you add in all the people you think were on your side.

On the notion of fairness and democracy, Gore lost his higher ground when he acted to prevent military absentee ballots from being counted if they had any issues (arriving late, in particular). He only wanted accurate counts in the counties he expected to win. He was perfectly happy to have undercounts in the counties he did not expect to win. This would be wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Moving forward (since this is 2 elections ago), the focus should be on the scourge of these insecure, closed source electronic voting machines. And for the DNC, encouraging people to vote absentee. If they wait till the last day to find out they're improerly declared ineligible, or drive to wherever they voted last (I fucked up once this way) presuming the polling station is still there, it's too late to do anything about it.

[sv3n 0]

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OK, just to clear it up for you. I am not and have not argued about whether a recount was called for or legal. I am saying that Gore was calling for a recount of just a few targeted counties. (Miami, Dade and Brower) THAT IS NOT LEGAL under Florida law. He did not want a full state recount only a few counties. Only the counties he thought he would benifit from.

Need a towel?

We can only assume his reasoning behind that, but if I were told that 170,000 votes were missing in those four counties alone........I would definitely be saying recount. Just for everybody's fairness.

Towel? No, why? You're not beatin off on the keyboard again are you......man I hate it when he does that!

...and you're in violation of your face!

[sv3n 0]

This wasn't a high school class president election, so when there's a lot of voter's turned away on false pretenses and a lot of uncounted votes.....that's an issue and it needs to be fixed. Ignoring it and saying it's ok we're done isn't right.

Voter's Rights
Each registered voter in this state has the right to:

- Vote and have his or her vote accurately counted

- Cast a vote if he or she is in line at the official closing of the polls in that county

- Ask for and receive assistance in voting

- Receive up to two replacement ballots if he or she makes a mistake prior to the ballot being cast

- An explanation if his or her registration is in question

- If his or her registration is in question, cast a provisional ballot

- Written instructions to use when voting, and, upon request, oral instructions in voting from election officers
- Vote free from coercion or intimidation by elections officers or any other person

- Vote on a voting system that is in working condition and that will allow votes to be accurately cast


(Section 101.031(2), Florida Statutes)
Source: http://doe.dos.state.fl.us/voteamerica/register/rights.html


People's rights were violated.

Quote

Perhaps (as mentioned so often in this thread) you should actually go READ the law involved. Just trying to keep you from getting any more egg on your face.

I'll give you the thumbnail version:

1. November 7th was the election.

2. Florida state law says that there is a 1 week deadline to complete recounts. The first complete count on November 8th triggered a recount.

3. November 15th is 1 week after November 8th. See #2, above.

Hope this clears things up for you.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[sv3n 0]

Quote

Moving forward (since this is 2 elections ago), the focus should be on the scourge of these insecure, closed source electronic voting machines. And for the DNC, encouraging people to vote absentee. If they wait till the last day to find out they're improerly declared ineligible, or drive to wherever they voted last (I fucked up once this way) presuming the polling station is still there, it's too late to do anything about it.

Agreed time to move on...

I don't really believe in the computer only voting machines...........as there is no paper-trail to double check and number of things could happen. The system crashes.......it could get hacked..........it's just too easy to tamper with and there would be no way to check it out.

here's some testimony on what could happen or might already have happened....http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEzY2tnwExs

...and you're in violation of your face!

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I don't really believe in the computer only voting machines...........as there is no paper-trail to double check and number of things could happen. The system crashes.......it could get hacked..........it's just too easy to tamper with and there would be no way to check it out.

the problems are solvable, however.

Paper receipt, with a tracking number. You can look up your recorded result the day after to confirm. For privacy, the receipt probably shouldn't show the entries, though there is the issue of what to do is the results don't match. (How to differentiate between computer and voter error). So maybe it should be a full printout.

Open source the underlying code. I was a bit bothered when the companies claimed the Berkeley cracking wasn't legitimate because they were given manuals and passwords. If the GOP (Or DNC) was going to fix a result, they would have these materials too. A secure system should stand up to attacks even by the architects. And nothing less should be acceptable.

[rushmc 23]

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OK, just to clear it up for you. I am not and have not argued about whether a recount was called for or legal. I am saying that Gore was calling for a recount of just a few targeted counties. (Miami, Dade and Brower) THAT IS NOT LEGAL under Florida law. He did not want a full state recount only a few counties. Only the counties he thought he would benifit from.

Need a towel?

We can only assume his reasoning behind that, but if I were told that 170,000 votes were missing in those four counties alone........I would definitely be saying recount. Just for everybody's fairness.

Towel? No, why? You're not beatin off on the keyboard again are you......man I hate it when he does that!

Ah, the move past civility. Speaks volumes

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Nightingale 0]

I just insist on a paper ballot. I either vote absentee, or in the last election, just went to the polls and said I didn't want to use the machine, could I have a paper ballot please? The guy running the polls tried to talk me into using the machine, and I said something like "Remember what happened in Iowa?" and he just shut up and handed me the ballot. As I left, more people were asking for paper. The guy wasn't pleased.

[sv3n 0]

Probably the smartest thing to do.

Quote

I just insist on a paper ballot. I either vote absentee, or in the last election, just went to the polls and said I didn't want to use the machine, could I have a paper ballot please? The guy running the polls tried to talk me into using the machine, and I said something like "Remember what happened in Iowa?" and he just shut up and handed me the ballot. As I left, more people were asking for paper. The guy wasn't pleased.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[sv3n 0]

Like the guy said in his testimony.....if the code were written by him, there would be no trace of it. The code would be written so that it would essentially eat itself after completing it's designed task and also switch the voting machine counts so that they matched what's in his servers. That's kind of hard to solve without a full printout with the vote right on it.

I understand the, let's save the paper and trees movement behind it and the benefit of having everything totalled almost instantly. But there would be no way to conduct an accurate recount if it were required.

A voting receipt is actually a great idea, but I think a lot of people would lose them or toss them in the trash on the way out. Once again, leaving an inaccurate record.

Maybe if the used some super-encryption on the whole software bundle, but then again I suppose someone would eventually figure a way around that too. How far do you have to go til something is hack or tamper proof?

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Quote

I don't really believe in the computer only voting machines...........as there is no paper-trail to double check and number of things could happen. The system crashes.......it could get hacked..........it's just too easy to tamper with and there would be no way to check it out.

the problems are solvable, however.

Paper receipt, with a tracking number. You can look up your recorded result the day after to confirm. For privacy, the receipt probably shouldn't show the entries, though there is the issue of what to do is the results don't match. (How to differentiate between computer and voter error). So maybe it should be a full printout.

Open source the underlying code. I was a bit bothered when the companies claimed the Berkeley cracking wasn't legitimate because they were given manuals and passwords. If the GOP (Or DNC) was going to fix a result, they would have these materials too. A secure system should stand up to attacks even by the architects. And nothing less should be acceptable.

...and you're in violation of your face!

[NCclimber 0]

Vote early and vote often.

[piper17 1]

As a citizen of the United States of America, you have the right to keep and bear arms and the other rights covered in the Bill of Rights NOT because the government grants you those rights. The Founding Fathers were quite specific in that these rights were God-given. The Bill of Rights states what these God-given rights are.

Also, regarding the right to keep and bear arms, if you do even the tiniest amount of research, you will find that the majority of the individual state constitutions also mention the right of the citizens to keep and bear arms.

"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition"...Rudyard Kipling

[NCclimber 0]

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As a citizen of the United States of America, you have the right to keep and bear arms and the other rights covered in the Bill of Rights NOT because the government grants you those rights. The Founding Fathers were quite specific in that these rights were God-given. The Bill of Rights states what these God-given rights are.

I think you're confusing a general statement in The Declaration of Independence and The Constitution of the United States of America. The Constitution does not say anything about God-given (or being "endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable") rights.

[mnealtx 0]

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Vote early and vote often.

That's the Chicago way! Connery>

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

I really am glad that the 2000 Election results are supported by all the right wing posters here. Its not how the game is played.... winning or losing is everything.

SOOOO when Hillary wins under similar circumstances... I guess you will not mind if I gloat for 8 years either.... and point it out frequently with a big I told you so.

[mnealtx 0]

Quote

I really am glad that the 2000 Election results are supported by all the right wing posters here. Its not how the game is played.... winning or losing is everything.

SOOOO when Hillary wins under similar circumstances... I guess you will not mind if I gloat for 8 years either.... and point it out frequently with a big I told you so.

I refer you back to the comment about how, when the Dems lose it MUST be vote fraud. That pretty much says it all right there.

Go back and look at all the state laws that the Dems broke (or tried to break) during the whole process. Several have been mentioned in this thread.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Amazon 7]

Quote

I refer you back to the comment about how, when the Dems lose it MUST be vote fraud. That pretty much says it all right there.

Go back and look at all the state laws that the Dems broke (or tried to break) during the whole process. Several have been mentioned in this thread.

SO I guess you are ok with all the voting irregularities that c aused THOUSANDS of people to be disenfranchised.... or is it only REPUBLICAN votes that really count

I guess as long as you win by any means possible... keeping people who you feel to be likely to vote for the WRONG party away from polling places... and machine "glitches" when the machines manufacturer promises you a win.... that is just ok so long as you win.

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

I really am glad that the 2000 Election results are supported by all the right wing posters here. Its not how the game is played.... winning or losing is everything.

SOOOO when Hillary wins under similar circumstances... I guess you will not mind if I gloat for 8 years either.... and point it out frequently with a big I told you so.

If conservatives are whining and crying about it seven years after the fact, then feel free to do so. Those on the left need to GET OVER IT and MOVE ON!!!

I wonder why we don't hear much about the 2006 election. The general mood among conservatives was "OUCH", "That really sucked"... "Okay, let's move on".

[Amazon 7]

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I wonder why we don't hear much about the 2006 election. The general mood among conservatives was "OUCH", "That really sucked"... "Okay, let's move on".

Sorry Bubba.. but I guess you dont read the weekly postings about how bad a job the Congress is doing ...posted by right wing posters

[NCclimber 0]

Quote

Quote

I wonder why we don't hear much about the 2006 election. The general mood among conservatives was "OUCH", "That really sucked"... "Okay, let's move on".

Sorry Bubba.. but I guess you dont read the weekly postings about how bad a job the Congress is doing ...posted by right wing posters

But nobody is rehashing the events of November 7, 2006 over and over and over.

DURRR