I would like to tell you a bit more about God

[steveorino 7]

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Want the honest truth? Will you believe me?

I am a loving loyal boyfriend. I take care of the people I love. I respect them. I dont cheat. I am honest and forward. I also have been known to cook, clean and Im house broken.

If she dated a guy like me and he made her happy, then I would be happy for her/them. I just would make sure she is on birth control.

You'd want your daughter to have a boyfriend whose mantra was EFS? Setting the bar for her a little low, ain't we butch?

Eh, maybe I'm just an old fart. After all, I'm 52+ -- 4 growns kids, 2 granddaughters and a lovely wife for 33+ years. what the heck do I know?

steveOrino

[br0k3n 0]

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P.S. I am willing to bet, that in fact, science will be able to all but disprove the other other god (you know the JC one). But who will listen anyways?

And how will science do that?

I think it would be incredible naive to believe that religion will stand the test of time, now I don’t say this because I think that science will prove that Gods do not exist but because we will without doubt reach a point in time where our understanding of the universe, and the origins of man is so great and the evidence we have to support that understanding through the advancement in science, is simply so overwhelming that to still hold faith in a higher power will be absurd. Now this might not be for 100 years, or it might even be 500 years from now.

So why do I think this, well first of all science is constantly evolving and our knowledge and understanding is constantly growing, whilst religious understanding is stagnant and stuck in the past. An example of this would be Creationism, whilst science continues to examine evolution and the credible evidence to support it grows, Creationist simply sticks to the blanket statement that there was a creator, however still to this day have no supporting evidence because creationist do not look for that evidence, they do not test the theory of creation.

So if we take this example lets imagine where we will be in say 200,300 years, creationist will still be making the same untested claim, however by this time the body of evidence that science will have, compared to today will be enormous and will be continuing to grow. So it is logical to assume that there will be a point in time that evidence to support evolution is SO huge this it simply can’t be refuted, so where will that leave the creationist, and the believers..

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[steveorino 7]

I'm not a creationist. neither do believe in a young earth theory. However, none of that dissuades me from JC's teachings. I still don't see how science will change any of the non-fundamental's belief's sysytem And the fundies? Well, not much would change their beliefs anyway. So I still say religion or belief in God is here to stay regardless of what science discovers in the future. JMHO

steveOrino

[Derekbox 0]

If she was happy why am I to meddle with her "bar" for her?

Your happy, great. You have what you want. If she wants the same as you have great, if she wants what I want great. If she wants both great.

Besides skydiving, I work, damn hard when needed. I take care of my life. I take care of my women. My mantra might be EFS, but there is much more to it than that.

Personally though, my plan, is to try to raise her well, make sure she can take care of herself, and then let her make her own decisions and let her live her life. Providing her with my love and support, but not my judegment.

[steveorino 7]

my best to you.

steveOrino

[Derekbox 0]

Amen to that.

[br0k3n 0]

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I'm not a creationist. neither do believe in a young earth theory. However, none of that dissuades me from JC's teachings. I still don't see how science will change any of the non-fundamental's belief's sysytem And the fundies? Well, not much would change their beliefs anyway. So I still say religion or belief in God is here to stay regardless of what science discovers in the future. JMHO

You know the thing is I agree, I wasn’t saying that 500 years from now nobody would believe in Gods, I’m sure they will. Its does seem that we as a human race have an incredible ability to self delude ourselves even in the face of cold hard facts.

As an example lets look at dowsers, now dowsing has to be one of the most widely debunked pseudo-scientific beliefs out there. There is not a shred of evidence to support it, every test ever done has proven it to be no better then chance, and yet people who claim to be able to dowse simple dismiss all this evidence.

As an example watch this Clip its a definitive, double-blind, by Professor Chris French examining the dowsing phenomenon, it is the reactions by the dowsers at the end that is interesting.

It is this same self-delusion that keeps religion alive today, and will keep it alive for years to come.

Even when we get to a point in time when we can prove the origins of the earth, when we can prove evolution, there will be people we will just ignore the facts, and continue on believing what they want to believe.

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--+ There are 10 types of people in the world: Those who understand binary, and those who don't.. --+

[zagijimzoo 0]

Part1 of this movie sums up religion:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331

[rhys 0]

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Christ atoned for my sins. He paid a price for a debt I could not pay, and taught me a better way to live my life. he gave me purpose, and hope.

This hope that you speak of is the lie that allows this planet to be consantly destroyed. Those that feel comfortable with the fact that some are born into an easy life and others must pay the price by having it very difficult, should reconsider the ethics of such a leader if in fact he did exist.

For centuries (about 20 now) these religous cult leaders that have been sifting fortunes from thier victims and palming thier lies off as fact. there seems to be no shortage of suckers, and I couldn't care less what they do with themselves or thier lives but when it impacts us all and the future of our survival then it is something we should all think about.

Education is the answer to most of the worlds problems, we only can know what we have been taught and what we work out for ourselves. it is a real shame that religon is allowed to inhibit common sense and have such a strong hold on peoples beleifs.

Imagine trying to convince a court abut the teachings of god if they had no clue of them, ironic how you swear on a bible though isn't it.

Do you hoestly believe in the bible, word for word? how do you feel about the uneven distribution of wealth and what are you or your church doing to lessen iyour impact on the ecosystem of the earth? or is the wellbeing of human beings you know personally and self gratification all you need to die happy?

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, then the world will see peace." - 'Jimi' Hendrix

[Coreece 190]

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This hope that you speak of is the lie that allows this planet to be consantly destroyed.

I have no idea what you're talking about.

Perhaps eliminating the oxymoron would help....but I doubt it.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[steveorino 7]

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Christ atoned for my sins. He paid a price for a debt I could not pay, and taught me a better way to live my life. he gave me purpose, and hope.

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This hope that you speak of is the lie that allows this planet to be consantly destroyed. Those that feel comfortable with the fact that some are born into an easy life and others must pay the price by having it very difficult, should reconsider the ethics of such a leader if in fact he did exist.

For the life of me I can't see how you got that out of what I typed. I never said some are born into an easy life and the test of us earn it by paying the price through our difficulties. ALL of us have difficulties. Some are harder than others. Most of that has to do with where we are in life. Most of us in the USA are some of the wealthiest people in the world according to the world's economy. I believe that brings a certain bit of responsibility for us, but that is not what I was implying. I implied God used my trial to make me a better person. A trial he neither brought or orchestrated. A trial of my own doing he used for my good.

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For centuries (about 20 now) these religous cult leaders that have been sifting fortunes from thier victims and palming thier lies off as fact. there seems to be no shortage of suckers, and I couldn't care less what they do with themselves or thier lives but when it impacts us all and the future of our survival then it is something we should all think about.

agree, but apart from the religous charlatans that fleece their audience, what does that have to do with anything?

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Do you hoestly believe in the bible, word for word?

NO, you obviously have never readany of my other posts. I believe the Bible tells us what we need to know in order to be saved (made spiritually whole) That is what the Greek word actually means. IMHO, it is not a science or history book.

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how do you feel about the uneven distribution of wealth

I sure don't think we should spread it around evenly that is for sure. That has never worked. However, I do feel the rich (USA is included in that description) should use their wealth to help the poor. Look at what Pastor Rick Warren is doing with his "PEACE" project"

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and what are you or your church doing to lessen iyour impact on the ecosystem of the earth?

For one we don't spend our meager resources on land that is used for a few hours a week. The ROCK church is homeless in that we do not own a building. Typically we meet in a park, lake, home or the DZ. This past week we spent the morning service picking up the trash around the park and sanding the graffitti off the picnic tables.

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or is the wellbeing of human beings you know personally and self gratification all you need to die happy?

You are clueles to what you rant about. That my friend, is so sad. Yeah, I gave up my largest income I ever made ($65,000+ when I was self employed) to make $12,000 a year as a pastor.

steveOrino

[JackC 0]

It sounds like you've put yourself through quite a bit of hardship because of your belief in god. Although I don't understand it and I think you might have been able to do more good following a different path, I can't help but respect your dedication and they way you carry yourself while doing it.

[philh 0]

"So you don't sin? I do. Theology of original sin aside I sin, I need a savior. "

Well it depends upon what you mean by sin.

If you mean by sin, what Chisitian theology teaches;that we all inherit sin from non exiistent people then I can confidently say no not me.

Now if you want to brush Christian theology away(something I find a bit odd for a Christian to do) and say have I personally comittd a sin that requires a blood sacrifice my answey is still no.

A system of justice that most pople I hope would find sanity in, is one whereby if a person commits a crime they are punished in proportion to that crime. It makes no sense to punish somone else for that crime. But yet that is the theme of the bible: blood sacrifice. The Pharoh enslaved the jews , who is punished? not the pharoh , but all the Egyptian first born. We supposedly have sinned and yet jesus is crucified as result.

All of this is really beside the point; you asked what evidence would disprove JC. My example of science disproving the Adam and Eve myth whilst not disproving the exstence of JC certainly disproves the theology that we need his sacrifice to correct for thier sin. Ultimaltey whether there really was a guy called JC walking around 2,000 years ago is anyones guess , its the thoelogy that counts, right?

[steveorino 7]

My views are no doubt, unpopular with many Christians. I believe as they do in many things such as God is the creator, he is holy, JC is his son, he paid the price for our sin, etc, etc. Still, if none of that was true I believe the peace my spirit finds in him worth any effort I have put forth to follow his teachings. IMHO, I have given up nothing and gained everything.

As far as original sin ... to me it is not a stretch to see everyone sins in omission and comission. If I believe God is pure and holy, then I can see how I fail to measure up. I can see I need a savior. If I reject that tehre is a god, then that is another story. While I can fathom I may not know all about God I cannot fathom there being no God.

steveOrino

[jakee 1,586]

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Sure they did.

Who was it, and why did they need one?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[steveorino 7]

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It sounds like you've put yourself through quite a bit of hardship because of your belief in god. Although I don't understand it and I think you might have been able to do more good following a different path, I can't help but respect your dedication and they way you carry yourself while doing it.

Thank you ... I think.

Let me say I don't think I have endured very many hardships. I paid my own way twice to do mission work for a pastor in Costa Rica who pastored two churches. One in Limon, and the other a train trip into the rain forrest (Cimmaronnes) sp? He sacrificed a lot. He worked as a long shoreman during the day unloading ships, then pastored the two congregations for little or no money. He lived in a squalor compared to our poor, yet he was very happy. He taught me a lot as we built two buildings together that will serve as churches and youth centers.

Let me clarify, that while I did take a major cut in salary to pastor I was able to provide for my family by taking on additional jobs. Most of them, not strenous. I illustrated for major magazines (something I never knew I could do, until poverty drove me to find out how to do it) I designed websites, and I learned to skydive then (do video, coach, teach, & instruct) I believed I sacrificed my income to do ministry with the understanding that God will provide for me in other ways. He has many times over.

steveOrino

[steveorino 7]

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Sure they did.

Who was it, and why did they need one?

Everyone who lived before Christ sinned and they too needed a savior. God's grace extends throughout history from the cross. backwards and fowards.

steveOrino

[Royd 0]

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Even when we get to a point in time when we can prove the origins of the earth, when we can prove evolution, there will be people we will just ignore the facts, and continue on believing what they want to believe.

Now I'm confused. I thought that it had already been proven.

[philh 0]

"he is holy, JC is his son, he paid the price for our sin, etc, etc."

Well this is the whole point of the blood sacrifice that appears ridiculous to me. What kind fo justice is that one person suffers for someone elses sin? Why does JC's death atone you sins? It makes no sense. What sacrifice was it anyway for an immortal being to sacrifice his mortal life? Big deal. Amortal sacrificing his life might impress but an immortal doesnt.

[steveorino 7]

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"he is holy, JC is his son, he paid the price for our sin, etc, etc."

Well this is the whole point of the blood sacrifice that appears ridiculous to me. What kind fo justice is that one person suffers for someone elses sin? Why does JC's death atone you sins? It makes no sense. What sacrifice was it anyway for an immortal being to sacrifice his mortal life? Big deal. Amortal sacrificing his life might impress but an immortal doesnt.

JC, although divine, was fully human ... he endured it all. As far as the blood sacrifice thing goes ... that is best described and understood in the theology of atonement. It is not a subject that can be done justice on an internet forum. That being said, I do appreciate your dilemma with it.

steveOrino

[beowulf 1]

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Even when we get to a point in time when we can prove the origins of the earth, when we can prove evolution, there will be people we will just ignore the facts, and continue on believing what they want to believe.

Now I'm confused. I thought that it had already been proven.

What are you referring to? Evolution? It is a theory that has a lot of evidence, but has not been entirely proven. Unlike Creationism, the Evolution theory is a work in progress.

[jakee 1,586]

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JC, although divine, was fully human ... he endured it all.

Endured all of what, dying? We all die, and many people die for the sake of others. Why isn't their sacrifice worth anything?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[steveorino 7]

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JC, although divine, was fully human ... he endured it all.

Endured all of what, dying? We all die, and many people die for the sake of others. Why isn't their sacrifice worth anything?

I suppose in many cases it is. for instance when a soldier dies for another. However, in JCs case it is the divine, sinless, god-man dying as a substitute for me.

You are right, we all die physically. Many of us die spiritually as well. The physical death JC paid on the cross paid for my spiritual death (separation from a holy God) that was due me.

steveOrino

[Nightingale 0]

What really confuses me is that, according to Christianity, God is the one who set the rules, so he is the one who decided his son needed to die to save everyone, right? So, then everyone talks about it like it was this big sacrifice, when it wouldn't have happened at all unless God wanted it to happen, and if God wanted it to happen and decided it should happen, how is it a sacrifice at all?

[kallend 2,144]

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What really confuses me is that, according to Christianity, God is the one who set the rules, so he is the one who decided his son needed to die to save everyone, right? So, then everyone talks about it like it was this big sacrifice, when it wouldn't have happened at all unless God wanted it to happen, and if God wanted it to happen and decided it should happen, how is it a sacrifice at all?

Throw in a bit of Trinitarian doctrine and you have a sure recipe for confusion.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.