Nightingale 0 #401 August 18, 2007 QuoteQuoteSo first off, he'd have to rewrite it to clear up all the gibberish in there. OT completely but River doing exactly that in an attempt to make it mesh with 'science' was one of my favorite scenes from Fire Fly... HEHE.... River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logistics… doesn't make sense...So we'll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God's creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah's ark is a problem. Book: Really? River: We'll have to call it "early quantum state phenomenon". Only way to fit 5,000 species of mammals on the same boat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
georgerussia 0 #402 August 19, 2007 Quote You need to see for yourself if what those other "gods" (BTW Buddha is not a god) teach and if their truths align with each other. It absolutely does not matter what other gods teach in regard to which god is real. Quote When did God say he would do that? Or is that what YOU would need? If sso, you have taken "faith" out of the equation. I'll probably go even further, and ask - why there is no credible evidence for the God existence and role, which could be accepted without having the faith FIRST? So far all the evidence you provided is based on faith already, and therefore cannot prove anything. Quote As to why doesn't he do that? I can't say as he did not say. Because there is no valid reason for not to do this, right?* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. * Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #403 August 19, 2007 this is all bullshit. believe me. i'm god.“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #404 August 19, 2007 Quote"There's only 3 things that fall from the sky... .......hail, snow, punted dogs, sleet, meteors, volcanic ash, chemical precipitates, sky divers.......do you need more? This is the Speakers Corner...Not your beloved Bonfire......Watch your efn mouth.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #405 August 19, 2007 "QuoteUntil I can explain how and when all matter and energy began, I'll let others hold their own beliefs about that without telling them that they are wrong. I may disagree with them, but it is silly to insist that I am right when I offer no explanation to contradict their beliefs." Well that depends upon what you insist on. As an atheist I dont need to know when or where all the matter and energy began or how it got here. I simply say I dont know. But if someone says I do know its my imaginary friend, hes responsible ..Ill ask them for the evidence and if they show me nothing ill quite rightly ridicule them . I can claim that matter and energy have simply always existed in one form or another (which is what I tend to believe), but for now that requires as much faith as believing that some sort of supernatural god/creator has always existed. or you can claim you dont know - that requires no faith, wheaaas supernatural bliefs requires lots of faith. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,146 #406 August 19, 2007 Quote"QuoteUntil I can explain how and when all matter and energy began, I'll let others hold their own beliefs about that without telling them that they are wrong. I may disagree with them, but it is silly to insist that I am right when I offer no explanation to contradict their beliefs." Well that depends upon what you insist on. As an atheist I dont need to know when or where all the matter and energy began or how it got here. I simply say I dont know. But if someone says I do know its my imaginary friend, hes responsible ..Ill ask them for the evidence and if they show me nothing ill quite rightly ridicule them . I can claim that matter and energy have simply always existed in one form or another (which is what I tend to believe), but for now that requires as much faith as believing that some sort of supernatural god/creator has always existed. or you can claim you dont know - that requires no faith, wheaaas supernatural bliefs requires lots of faith. "It is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it true", Bertrand Russell... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #407 August 20, 2007 and I would like to tell you a bit more about my God: He is a mad alien, full of eye round about, He cometh with the clouds, radioactive, all-pervading, He has forged His covenant with the SubGenius in CHAINS of GENETIC PROGRAMMING and DEMANDS OBESIANCE to His caveman sense of humor. For only $30 you will be saved for LIFE. Maybe Death too. There is also a standing offer for "Eternal Salvation or TRIPLE Your Money Back!" The organization claims that if an ordained SubGenius minister dies and finds himself standing at the gates of "Normal" or "Boring" Hell, he will be personally greeted by Church founder J. R. "Bob" Dobbs Himself and receive a refund check for $90.00, along with a booklet titled, "How to Enjoy Hell for Five Cents an Eternity," which costs $89.95. I feel him in my heart right now, slackerific. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #408 August 20, 2007 P.S. I am willing to bet, that in fact, science will be able to all but disprove the other other god (you know the JC one). But who will listen anyways? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #409 August 20, 2007 QuoteP.S. I am willing to bet, that in fact, science will be able to all but disprove the other other god (you know the JC one). But who will listen anyways? And how will science do that? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #410 August 20, 2007 "And how will science do that? " Well that kind of the point isnt it? If you believe in something which cannot possibly be falsified by scientific evidence, what is the difference between that and any other delusion? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #411 August 20, 2007 that still doesn't answer my question I posed to him. How will science disprove the existence of God? He states it like that is a fact or is it simply his belief (faith) that science will do so? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #412 August 20, 2007 Quotethat still doesn't answer my question I posed to him. How will science disprove the existence of God? He states it like that is a fact or is it simply his belief (faith) that science will do so? Actually, he didn't say science will be able to disprove god, he said "science will be able to all but disprove ... god". So if you want to know how science will disprove god the answer is it most probably can't. If you want to know how science will all but disprove god, the answer is by continuing to fill in the gaps in our knowledge where god still finds refuge. He then said that no one would listen anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
philh 0 #413 August 20, 2007 "that still doesn't answer my question I posed to him. How will science disprove the existence of God? He states it like that is a fact or is it simply his belief (faith) that science will do so? " Well I beliebe he said "all but disprove" thats not the same. Obviosuly its impossible to disprove thhe existence of nay invisible being. That leads to my question to you why have such confidence in a belief that cant even in principle be falsified? I presume youve heard of Karl Poppers concept of falisication? This is a very high benchmark for blief and that which passes it should invite our confidence. That which cannot be falsified well..... the story goes that Wolfgang Pauli had three ascending levels of insults : 1 wrong 2 completely wrong , and worst of all, 3 not even wrong Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #414 August 20, 2007 It's pretty much impossible to have evidence of something not existing. If there is no evidence of something then there is no reason to think it exists. If you had any evidence at all of any god at all then I wouldn't argue with you. But you seem to be confused as to what constitutes evidence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #415 August 20, 2007 Quote"It is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it true", Bertrand Russell "Do you like my hat?" "No, I do not like your hat" Go Dog Go ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #416 August 20, 2007 QuoteQuote"It is undesirable to believe in a proposition when there is no ground whatsoever for supposing it true", Bertrand Russell "Do you like my hat?" "No, I do not like your hat" Go Dog Go "No, I do not like your hat" is a statement of personal opinion. My grounds for believing that person does not like my hat is that the person has stated they do not like my hat. After all, they should know. Similarly, "Do you believe in God?" "Yes, I believe in God." That statement gives me definite grounds to believe in the proposition that the person in question does believe in God." Now what is the original responders reason for not liking the hat? Is it that the hat does not fall within that persons personal, abstract aesthetic tastes, or does the person believe that the hat in question is a poor representation of the actual perfect Platonic 'form' of a hat?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #417 August 20, 2007 Further, is the hat amphibious? Only one way to find out. Finally, does liking the hat assist in that specific person becoming a better person compared to if they didn't wear a hat. Or should they actually wear a mask? If so, one could reassess their opinion of the hat, but in either way going to a 3rd person and arguing about the hat is a great way to sell books. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #418 August 20, 2007 Does the hat have its own opinion? Furthermore as an observer of reality, is it possible to know both the position (angle of tilt) and opinion of the hat simultaneously, or does the act of asking the hat always push it to a greater angle of jauntiness?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #419 August 20, 2007 QuoteDoes the hat have its own opinion? Furthermore as an observer of reality, is it possible to know both the position (angle of tilt) and opinion of the hat simultaneously, or does the act of asking the hat always push it to a greater angle of jauntiness? "jauntiness" is a funny word so is "bungalow" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #420 August 20, 2007 How about "Obstreperousness"? I do not like Green Eggs and Ham! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,593 #421 August 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteDoes the hat have its own opinion? Furthermore as an observer of reality, is it possible to know both the position (angle of tilt) and opinion of the hat simultaneously, or does the act of asking the hat always push it to a greater angle of jauntiness? "jauntiness" is a funny word so is "bungalow" A bunch of builders had just finished the ground floor of a house when someone stole the rest of the bricks. They asked the foreman what to do and he said "Oh, just bung a low roof on it!"Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derekbox 0 #422 August 20, 2007 Easy there boy. Just woke up, I didnt abondon the thread. Science works on a process, Hypothesis, Theory, Law. The further we delve into science, furthering our understanding of the universe. The bible is also full of information which is open for scientific debate. Feel free to google and take a look at one of the near infinite debates already in progess. But really, if I knew HOW it was going to happen, I would be able todo so. Debunking the character himself is all but impossible, granted. But debunking much of the biblical foundation surrounding him on the other hand is plausible. Without that support, how can you uphold your god? Faith apperantly. The same faith that opened a *musuem* of creationism, will still use there faith to bend the rules of science to fit what they want to believe. Generally speaking though, my statement is more of a forward looking, the knowledge we hold in the future we cannot fathom today. But what will it matter when faith turns a blind eye to science. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #423 August 20, 2007 QuoteEasy there boy. Just woke up, I didnt abondon the thread. Science works on a process, Hypothesis, Theory, Law. The further we delve into science, furthering our understanding of the universe. The bible is also full of information which is open for scientific debate. Feel free to google and take a look at one of the near infinite debates already in progess. But really, if I knew HOW it was going to happen, I would be able todo so. Debunking the character himself is all but impossible, granted. But debunking much of the biblical foundation surrounding him on the other hand is plausible. Without that support, how can you uphold your god? Faith apperantly. The same faith that opened a *musuem* of creationism, will still use there faith to bend the rules of science to fit what they want to believe. Generally speaking though, my statement is more of a forward looking, the knowledge we hold in the future we cannot fathom today. But what will it matter when faith turns a blind eye to science. What fact of science stands against "my" belief in JC right now? steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #424 August 20, 2007 QuoteIt's pretty much impossible to have evidence of something not existing. If there is no evidence of something then there is no reason to think it exists. If you had any evidence at all of any god at all then I wouldn't argue with you. But you seem to be confused as to what constitutes evidence. No, I'm not the one who said science would "all but disprove" JC as God. (derekbox did) I have made it abundantly clear about my views. You come to God through faith. I'm just curious as to what evidence he believes science will come up with that will "all but disprove" JC was God? HIS statement, not mine. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #425 August 20, 2007 Quote and I would like to tell you a bit more about my God: He is a mad alien, full of eye round about, He cometh with the clouds, radioactive, all-pervading, He has forged His covenant with the SubGenius in CHAINS of GENETIC PROGRAMMING and DEMANDS OBESIANCE to His caveman sense of humor. For only $30 you will be saved for LIFE. Maybe Death too. There is also a standing offer for "Eternal Salvation or TRIPLE Your Money Back!" The organization claims that if an ordained SubGenius minister dies and finds himself standing at the gates of "Normal" or "Boring" Hell, he will be personally greeted by Church founder J. R. "Bob" Dobbs Himself and receive a refund check for $90.00, along with a booklet titled, "How to Enjoy Hell for Five Cents an Eternity," which costs $89.95. I feel him in my heart right now, slackerific. Dude, at least be original. http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/answers/faqs/X0001_Lous_FakeFAQ.html steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
