I would like to tell you a bit more about God

[jenfly00 0]

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I for one have no problems stating I have had doubts and continue to have questions

what questions are you asking?

Presently or in the past?

dont mind, alright presently then...

you mean now ...or when you asked??? This shit is moving, ya know.

G. Carlin (more or less)

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"O brave new world that has such people in it".

[philh 0]

I would love to know what doubt you have presently?

I heard another Christian ( as i recall the Presdient of Liberty University) saying he had serious doubts about the bible but at the same time he thinks its the inerant word of god. I wonder if he was just trying to appear open minded.

i think the real question is not whether someone has doubts but what they are prepared to do to resolve them. A real system of knowledge like science test claims when they are doubted (and even when they are not) , a lame system of knowledge like religion does not.

[DropDgorgeous 0]

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Do you honestly and genuinely beleive that god (no capital G) orchestrated this guys whole entire life so that he would be at the DZ for you when you hurt yourself?

I don't believe in coincidences. I'm not trying to make a believer out of you. If you choose not to believe in God, that's your decision.

[steveorino 7]

present doubts or questions ... okay... question. How inclusive or exclusive is "to be in Christ?"

Some would say it is VERY exclusive ... my denomination, my doctrine, dogma, etc. others will say it is very inclusive i.e., Carlton Pearson and his "universilism" teachings. Or is "to be in Christ" some where in between. Which is it?

doubt. My understanding of theology is good enough to realize people misuse certain quotes of JC to do harm, but they fail to ask do these difficult passages follow the gist of his teaching. In other words, they interpret a difficult text in its own light instead of interpreting it in the light of JC's clear teachings on a particular subject. IMHO that is their error. However, here is the doubt ... many of the commands attributed to God in the OT are hard to rationalize against the teachings of JC. If I use that same principle of exegesis, then that leads me to doubt that what they wrote was the literal word of God, but possibly more of how they understood it in the context of their world view.

steveOrino

[DropDgorgeous 0]

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1 The LORD said to Moses and Aaron, 2 "Say to the Israelites: 'Of all the animals that live on land, these are the ones you may eat: 3 You may eat any animal that has a split hoof completely divided and that chews the cud.
4 " 'There are some that only chew the cud or only have a split hoof, but you must not eat them. The camel, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is ceremonially unclean for you. 5 The coney, [a] though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 6 The rabbit, though it chews the cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you. 7 And the pig, though it has a split hoof completely divided, does not chew the cud; it is unclean for you. 8 You must not eat their meat or touch their carcasses; they are unclean for you.

and why do i see so many Christians make fun of other religion who forbids eating certain shit??? it is YOU who is violating the law of the LORD..

Don't fuck with pork, they are unclean for you!!!

I have already stated that I am not a theologist. But have you ever taken a look at the commanmends of the Bible:
1. Don't have sex before marriage - how many people are dying from HIV/AIDS because they do not obide by this.
2. The Bible tells you you're unclean if you touch blood - we know today that so many diseases can spread through blood.

In my opinion, all the "rules/regulations" in the Bible are not there to make your life less fun or difficult, but to protect you.

I have non-christian friends as well, I do not mock them for anything they believe in. That is their personal choice.

I placed the post for people who might be searching for something, something they might not even know they're looking for. I am not trying to convert you or any other person in this forum to Christianity, but there may be someone who appreciated that message. If only one person got something out of that post, even if I get a 1000 critics on this thread, it would make it worth my while.

[philh 0]

"In other words, they interpret a difficult text in its own light instead of interpreting it in the light of JC's clear teachings on a particular subject"

Isnt the concept of JC's "clear teachings" just an unjustified assumption? I have heard so many Christian passionatley tell us that the "god hates fags" whilst others say god loves us all. With what justification do you say that the problem is caused by people "misusing " the quotes as opposed to the problem being with the quotes themselves?

[DropDgorgeous 0]

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I'm just frightened that she's going to medical school and doesn't know how to spell "doctor".

My mistake. I'm afrikaans. In afrikaans, a medical doctor is called a dokter, while someone who has their Phd is called a doktor.

I'm not studying languages

[DropDgorgeous 0]

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From my limited experience in skydiving I'd say it is very rare and unlucky for an AFF student to broke the leg in two places. If this is a typical example of how your god looks after his children, I'd say it is kinda weird, and I really want to be an orphan.

I keep getting the same comment over and over and over. I ignored it the first 20 times, but here goes. God did not break my leg. My own inexperience and miscalculation and probably a bit of uncurrency caused that. I'm human, I make mistakes, but that's my fault, not God's.

I landed close to people, that meant that I got help faster, I see it as divine intervention, if you want to interpret it otherwise, go for it.

The "double fracture" was because it was a tortion fracture, in other words the bone twisted, and the built up tension of it being rotated, caused it to break. It's not a big deal, or at least for the person who experienced it, it's not.

[DropDgorgeous 0]

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As Billvon pointed out in another thread, there is a great difference in the message of the Old Testament vs. the message of the New Testament.

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so are you trying to argue it is actually was "a different God" then and now??

I haven't read the thread refered to above.

In the old Testament, we were to be punished for our sin. In the New Testament, Jesus died for our sins, therefore taking our punishment. Through Christ we are washed clean. Whether you're a Christian or not, just think about it - has anyone ever loved you so much that they would die for you?

[funkcanna 0]

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***I landed close to people, that meant that I got help faster, I see it as divine intervention, if you want to interpret it otherwise, go for it..

Why instead of landing you near people did god not land you on a softer piece of ground?

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[Nightingale 0]

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I'm just frightened that she's going to medical school and doesn't know how to spell "doctor".

My mistake. I'm afrikaans. In afrikaans, a medical doctor is called a dokter, while someone who has their Phd is called a doktor.

I'm not studying languages

I apologize. Your English is generally quite good, so I thought it was your first language.

[DropDgorgeous 0]

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Why instead of landing you near people did god not land you on a softer piece of ground?

I don't know, get to know Him a bit better, then ask Him yourself. Enjoy your day

[jakee 1,593]

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I keep getting the same comment over and over and over. I ignored it the first 20 times, but here goes. God did not break my leg. My own inexperience and miscalculation and probably a bit of uncurrency caused that. I'm human, I make mistakes, but that's my fault, not God's.

I landed close to people, that meant that I got help faster, I see it as divine intervention, if you want to interpret it otherwise, go for it.

So lets go through this step by step.

God knew that you were going to crash, and so moved your parachute closer to the buildings, yes? How would god have done this? I see two options. 1) God influenced the controls inputs you made or 2) God altered the wind conditions in an unexpected manner.

As a new student you will tend be succeptible to overload in new/ difficult/ unexpected conditions. Being too close to the buildings would put pressure on you. being blown towards the buildings by unexpected winds would put pressure on you. The canopy not reacting as you would have expected when you tried to steer it away from the buildings would have put pressure on you.

To put it bluntly, any effort by God to 'save' you by putting you closer to the buildings would have just made you more likely to crash. If God intervened then he is responsible for your accident.

Oh, and just one ther thing, don't you think it is unbelievably arrogant to believe that you are at the centre of one of Gods grand plans, and that he is willing to manipulate the world and the lives and decisions of other people just for you?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[funkcanna 0]

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I don't know, get to know Him a bit better, than ask Him yourself. Enjoy your day

It sounds like you know him pretty well. Cant you ask him for me over some pillow talk?

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[DropDgorgeous 0]

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Oh, and just one ther thing, don't you think it is unbelievably arrogant to believe that you are at the centre of one of Gods grand plans, and that he is willing to manipulate the world and the lives and decisions of other people just for you?

Please try not to twist my words. I never said anything of the sort. Each of us live our own lives, I am not able to experience your life as you do. I simply stated events that happened, and how I experienced it. I am not arrogant, I am not full of myself, i'm not naive or anything else someone would like to through at me. I'm simply a believer. Someone who believes in God. I'm not demeaning anyone else's beliefs, i'm not degrading anyone as a person, i'm not disregarding anyone's opinions. If you wish to interpret anything i've posted in that manner, that is not my intention.

[NCclimber 0]

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nice..both unproductive and insulting.. do you have a point?

Just addressing how you missed my previous one.

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If anyone is afraid to air their beliefs or doubts of said beliefs for fear of them being undermined by simple critique then said beliefs cannot be very strong or very persuasive.

"That which cannot withstand close scrutiny is worthless"

There's quite a difference between a simple critique and the standard replies (to statements of Christian faith) on this forum.

[jakee 1,593]

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Oh, and just one ther thing, don't you think it is unbelievably arrogant to believe that you are at the centre of one of Gods grand plans, and that he is willing to manipulate the world and the lives and decisions of other people just for you?

Please try not to twist my words. I never said anything of the sort. Each of us live our own lives, I am not able to experience your life as you do. I simply stated events that happened, and how I experienced it. I am not arrogant, I am not full of myself, i'm not naive or anything else someone would like to through at me. I'm simply a believer. Someone who believes in God. I'm not demeaning anyone else's beliefs, i'm not degrading anyone as a person, i'm not disregarding anyone's opinions. If you wish to interpret anything i've posted in that manner, that is not my intention.

What are you talking about?

You stated in your very first post that God was willing to manipulate the world and other peoples thought processes and decisions (making university entrance boards accept your application, making doctors decide to go to the DZ etc.) just to help you. You cannot deny this, you have written it down in black and white for all to see

So, don't you think that it is incredibly arrogant of you to think that you are so important that God will make other people do things just for you?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Royd 0]

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I'm not demeaning anyone else's beliefs, i'm not degrading anyone as a person, i'm not disregarding anyone's opinions.

That's all they've got to elevate themselves to a higher plane, at least in their own minds.

[philh 0]

"Don't have sex before marriage - how many people are dying from HIV/AIDS because they do not obide by this. "

The risk of STD's is easly aviodable by using condoms. However it is Christians insitutions that are the most vocal in condenming them. Telling people to try and avoid their most basic instincts is asking for trouble.

" The Bible tells you you're unclean if you touch blood - we know today that so many diseases can spread through blood."

Actaulyl the bible says its unclean to touch a woman whilst she is on her preriod. There is no basis for this silly supersition.

"I placed the post for people who might be searching for something, something they might not even know they're looking for. "
and your views will be rightly criticised because thje search for supersition has a very negative impact on all of us.

[billvon 3,106]

>In my opinion, all the "rules/regulations" in the Bible are not there
>to make your life less fun or difficult, but to protect you.

Well, there are also the rules that say you can't eat shellfish, can't wear clothing that has two different sorts of fibers (i.e. cotton and wool, or cotton and polyester, or any other "divers sorts") can't receive communion if you wear glasses (if there's a "defect in your sight") that women can't speak in church ("Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says") and that you should kill gays ("their blood shall be upon them".) On the plus side you can sell your daughter as a slave and rape the virgins in the towns you conquer.

Of course, many chrisitans assume that these were old canonical law that simply doesn't apply any more. Many of the old testament rules and regulations are similar.

So it really doesn't have much to do with "protecting you" - it's more about how society changes and so do our laws/mores.

[Zenister 0]

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As Billvon pointed out in another thread, there is a great difference in the message of the Old Testament vs. the message of the New Testament.

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so are you trying to argue it is actually was "a different God" then and now??

I haven't read the thread refered to above.

In the old Testament, we were to be punished for our sin. In the New Testament, Jesus died for our sins, therefore taking our punishment. Through Christ we are washed clean. Whether you're a Christian or not, just think about it - has anyone ever loved you so much that they would die for you?

Yes, and before he did I could actually touch and talk to him, as could anyone else. No belief, faith or mysticism required. If the only person who loves you enough to put their life in front of your own is your invisible friend i feel very sorry for you..

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Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[steveorino 7]

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"In other words, they interpret a difficult text in its own light instead of interpreting it in the light of JC's clear teachings on a particular subject"

Isnt the concept of JC's "clear teachings" just an unjustified assumption? I have heard so many Christian passionatley tell us that the "god hates fags" whilst others say god loves us all.


With what justification do you say that the problem is caused by people "misusing " the quotes as opposed to the problem being with the quotes themselves?

More or less.

steveOrino

[Andrewwhyte 1]

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I for one have no problems stating I have had doubts and continue to have questions. I think being a guy that questions doctrine and theology moves us closer to God not farther away. (At least it seemed to work for Martin Luther)

Huh? Wasn't he excommunicated? He's roasting in hell as we speak for his heresy.

[steveorino 7]

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I for one have no problems stating I have had doubts and continue to have questions. I think being a guy that questions doctrine and theology moves us closer to God not farther away. (At least it seemed to work for Martin Luther)

Huh? Wasn't he excommunicated? He's roasting in hell as we speak for his heresy.

I guess the Catholics may think so -- protestants don't.

steveOrino

[Muenkel 0]

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I for one have no problems stating I have had doubts and continue to have questions. I think being a guy that questions doctrine and theology moves us closer to God not farther away. (At least it seemed to work for Martin Luther)

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Huh? Wasn't he excommunicated? He's roasting in hell as we speak for his heresy.

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I guess the Catholics may think so -- protestants don't.

Um no, Catholics do NOT think so. I've stated this so many times here that I am so convinced that people are determined to make up their own minds no matter how often a person says it is untrue.

I will try again. In the Catholic faith it is a grave sin to judge someone else and proclaim where they have gone after death. An act may be gravely sinful in nature, but we have no idea the culpability of the person who has committed such act. Judgment is left to God alone. We are supposed to examine our own consciences...no one elses.

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Chris