Condoms and their effectiveness

[Ian84 0]

I stumbled across a thread in another forum on the subject of sexually active teens. Based on some of the opinions that were expressed regarding condoms I thought I'd ask around here for peoples' general attitude towards condoms or other birth control, or indeed methods to prevent STIs.

I'm of the opinion that condoms provide an incredibly effective method of prevention for pregnancy and many diseases. I reached that conclusion because of facts given to me by people I knew to have my physical health and well being in mind as well as my own (primarily online) research. Based on that information I relied solely on condoms for protection for over two years (successfully). I was compelled to become involved in the discussion over in the other forum because I felt there was an abundance of misinformation being passed off as good advice.

What do you think?

[kelpdiver 2]

what exactly is your question?

sounds like you're looking for more misinformation to correct. You should probably start with your description of condoms as "incredibly effective." The incredible part needs to be dropped.

Used correctly, you're still looking at only about 98% effectiveness, which trails the pill and other birth control methods taken by the woman. Used poorly, that number drops hard. As STD prevention, you're looking at the same numbers, but won't prevent all types.

So end result - probably the best option, but shouldn't be seen as a shield to throw away any thinking about who you're doing and what consequences may come.

[freethefly 6]

You may want to read this from an HIV/AIDS information site.
http://www.avert.org/condoms.htm

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Ian84 0]

I should have been clearer. I wasn't looking to correct anyone here but was wondering whether anyone had come to a different conclusion about their effectiveness as a preventative measure and how they came to that conclusion. ie is there any legitamite scientifinc evidence to show that they are not very effective? If there is not then why is there so much apparent misinformation circulating and why do so many people seem to make a concerted effort to disseminate it?

As for using "incredible" as a description, that was based on my experience and the statistics I was able to find. Possibly overstated but I did say it was my opinion.

[Ian84 0]

That was intertesting, thanks freethefly. For some reason I had it in my head that they were a fairly recent invention.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I should have been clearer. I wasn't looking to correct anyone here but was wondering whether anyone had come to a different conclusion about their effectiveness as a preventative measure and how they came to that conclusion. ie is there any legitamite scientifinc evidence to show that they are not very effective? If there is not then why is there so much apparent misinformation circulating and why do so many people seem to make a concerted effort to disseminate it?

It's still not clear what you want to talk about. You make references to this great about of misinformation, but we can't see it here, so what are we going to talk about?

What does effective mean? 1 failure in 50 isn't great. Skydiving has a 1 in 65,000 failure and it's considered rather dangerous. As I suggested early, don't fuck anyone you're not willing to have a child with. Or at the least, don't presume that Trojan man will ensure the situation doesn't come up.

[Ian84 0]

Maybe if I explain what spurred me to ask the question, it might help clarify what I'm looking for. There was a conversation about a young man who's mother had dicovered he was sexually active when she came accross an empty condom box. She asked for advice and was promptly given responses along the lines of:

"Condoms don't protect from STD's or pregnancy"

"There is a lie circulating that condoms are effective at preventing infection"

"Perhaps you should explain to your son that condoms don't work and have him memorise scripture regarding self control"

Stuff like that. When I challenged those responses with statistics such as those available from the World Health Organisation a woman promptly informed me that she had statistics from multiple sources which called into question those which I provided (which were basically the same as those you posted here earlier).

She has so far been unable/unwilling to provide a reference to her sources which got me wondering where people with similar opinions are getting there facts.

So I guess my question is this:

Is there any legitimate research which suggests that condoms are only 75-85% (stats she said she had found) effective when used consistently and correctly or are they just giving out false information with the aim of trying to scare people out of having sex for moral reasons? She was adamant that such statistics demonstarted that condoms were not worth the effort.

I realise that I haven't been very clear in my previous posts and if I've failed to articulate my question adequetely yet again then just ignore it because I think thats the best I can do. Thanks for the response anyway.

[kelpdiver 2]

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"Perhaps you should explain to your son that condoms don't work and have him memorise scripture regarding self control"

There's really nothing you can say in to response to people that make this sort of argument to you. No facts will dissaude them, so save your efforts.

[Ian84 0]

True enough, but are they kidding themselves or are they going out of thier way to mislead others? Thought it was worth asking here anyway. Thanks again.

[wmw999 2,587]

The issue come here:

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when used consistently and correctly

It's not always done. Really. Correctly means when erection is first achieved -- not when the guy is about ready to insert. You have to read the whole instructions; some of them are more onerous than others. As soon as the guy is done, he should remove take off the condom and clean. Again, not necessarily easily done in the heat of the moment.

Not that I'm against condoms -- I'm all for providing free ones, along with instructions. It's just that people under the influence of hormones and (sometimes) alcohol won't necessarily follow all of the directions, and then the efficacy goes down.

And even if it reduces to 75%, that beats the shit out of taking no steps.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ErricoMalatesta 0]

[replyI'm of the opinion that condoms provide an incredibly effective method of prevention for pregnancy and many diseases. I reached that conclusion because of facts

[tbrown 26]

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Maybe if I explain what spurred me to ask the question, it might help clarify what I'm looking for. There was a conversation about a young man who's mother had dicovered he was sexually active when she came accross an empty condom box. She asked for advice and was promptly given responses along the lines of:

"Condoms don't protect from STD's or pregnancy"

"There is a lie circulating that condoms are effective at preventing infection"

"Perhaps you should explain to your son that condoms don't work and have him memorise scripture regarding self control"

There are a lot lies like this circulating about condoms, alleging that they don't work. They do work and can be highly effective, if used properly.

HIV infection rates in most european countries that promote condom use are quite low. Of course in Europe, most parents are willing to admit that young people like to fuck. In some countries, notably Denmark, it is acceptable to have a boyfriend or girlfriend stay overnight, though generally not on school nights (wise choice IMHO).

About ten years ago, Dr. Alexa Albert, a young MD who works in public health and STD issues conducted a study on condom usage within the controlled environment of The Mustang Ranch brothel in Nevada. She found that the rate of STD transmission among the ladies (verified with weekly examinations and blood tests, and a monthly HIV test, all as required by law for the licensed establishments) was extremely low - lower not only than among illegal street hookers & escorts, but lower than control groups of sexually active young women in general.

She also found that the incidence of condom breakage was extremely low among the working ladies who understood how to use them correctly. There were a number of breakages that occurred repeatedly with the same two ladies and their breakage rates also vanished after a little bit of training from the other ladies of the house.

Condoms won't prevent HPV though. HPV can be spred from skin to skin contact, such as the grinding of groins (I like the sound of that...) that occurs during intercourse, the virus simply goes around the condom. But there's already one new vaccine for HPV and there will soon be a second competing vaccine in another year or two.

So the religious right had better get cracking with some fresh new lies about the HPV vaccines, God forbid they would ever want to protect their children from the divine punishment of cervical cancer.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Ian84 0]

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in Europe, most parents are willing to admit that young people like to fuck.

This seems to be the major difference and to me indicates that many of the more religious parents tend to prioritise their children's moral well being at the expense (potentially) of their physical/mental health.

[juanesky 0]

And you equate religion with lack of education?

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Stumpy 284]

I don't want to put words in the other posters mouth but i don't think that is what he is saying at all.
I have also come across religious people (particularly catholics recently) spreading outright lies and serious misinformation in order to justify a religious stance.
Actually, come to think of it, creationists do similar things.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[juanesky 0]

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I don't want to put words in the other posters mouth but i don't think that is what he is saying at all.
I have also come across religious people (particularly catholics recently) spreading outright lies and serious misinformation in order to justify a religious stance.
Actually, come to think of it, creationists do similar things.

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"This seems to be the major difference and to me indicates that many of the more religious parents tend to prioritise their children's moral well being at the expense (potentially) of their physical/mental health."

You may think so, it is your right, but I also have a right to believe that he is meaning that religious people are ignorant and willing to harm their children.

"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

[Trae 1]

in reply to 'What do you think? '
...............................

I think that whoever invents an effective and fun female condom is gonna make a lota money.

[freethefly 6]

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in reply to 'What do you think? '
...............................

I think that whoever invents an effective and fun female condom is gonna make a lota money.

Female condoms are already in use.
http://www.avert.org/femcond.htm
Rereading your comment, I take it that you are aware. I am only posting the link for further information.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[Ian84 0]

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And you equate religion with lack of education?

No juanesky, I'm not equating religion with lack of education. Some of the most highly educated people I know are religious.

I think religious people are more likely to beleive and disseminate false information about condoms though.

[Ian84 0]

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You may think so, it is your right, but I also have a right to believe that he is meaning that religious people are ignorant and willing to harm their children.

Again you're wrong about my view of religious people. I just think that because of their strong belief that premarrital sex is a sin that they are less likely to inform their children about condoms. In some cases the information they do give is incorrect and would lead someone to the conclusion that they flat out don't work.

I doubt many parent are "willing to harm their children" but as a result of their belifs and the information that they give or don't give a lot of kids are exposed to a greater risk.

Hopefully this clarifies what I'm trying to say. I have many Christian friends, I have nothing against religious people. I'm just commenting on a trend that has become apparent to me regarding this particular issue.

[freethefly 6]

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In some cases the information they do give is incorrect and would lead someone to the conclusion that they flat out don't work.

The general belief in religious groups is that information concerning condoms lead to sex. The general belief in religious groups is that abstinence only programs deter kids from sex.
A study was done some years back and the participants were followed up on for a number of years. It showed that the kids who were in the abstinence only program progressed on to having sex faster than those who were in the safe sex education program that discussed condom use and abstinence.
Kids need to be informed of all options. Scare tactics do not work with kids. Religious groups need to come down off of their moral high horse. Teenagers have been having sex since the first humans and will do so untill the sun engulfs the earth. It is better to arm them with what will really protect them than it is to try and scare them with some crap about damnation.
Religious rhetoric does not work and the numbers that show this to be true do not lie.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[NCclimber 0]

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A study was done some years back and the participants were followed up on for a number of years. It showed that the kids who were in the abstinence only program progressed on to having sex faster than those who were in the safe sex education program that discussed condom use and abstinence.

Cite?

[freethefly 6]

I am really sick and tired of you people who cannot research for yourselves. But, here goes.

http://www.psych.umn.edu/courses/spring06/borgidae/psy5202/readings/jemmott%201998.pdf

http://www.catholic-forum.com/churches/luxver/donumsanctum/sex.htm

The findings of the study

The study was conducted in Philadelphia using 659 sixth- and seventh-graders at three inner city schools. The youths were divided into three groups: one received sex education concentrating on condom use, another focused on abstinence, the third was a control group who heard information regarding non-sexual diseases.

After three months, 12.5 percent of those in the abstinence group said they had sexual relations. 16.6 percent of those in the condom group said they had engaged in sex.

At six months, "slightly more of the abstinence-group students were having sex than the condom-group students," according to the article.

After one year, 20 percent of the abstinence group reported having sex, compared with 16.5 percent of the condom group.

At each checkpoint, between 20 and 23 percent of the control group said they had engaged in sex.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young

[NCclimber 0]

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I am really sick and tired of you people who cannot research for yourselves. But, here goes.

http://www.psych.umn.edu/courses/spring06/borgidae/psy5202/readings/jemmott%201998.pdf

http://www.catholic-forum.com/churches/luxver/donumsanctum/sex.htm

The findings of the study

The study was conducted in Philadelphia using 659 sixth- and seventh-graders at three inner city schools. The youths were divided into three groups: one received sex education concentrating on condom use, another focused on abstinence, the third was a control group who heard information regarding non-sexual diseases.

After three months, 12.5 percent of those in the abstinence group said they had sexual relations. 16.6 percent of those in the condom group said they had engaged in sex....

After one year, 20 percent of the abstinence group reported having sex, compared with 16.5 percent of the condom group

Who did the total percent in the condom group decline?

[freethefly 6]

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Who did the total percent in the condom group decline?

Are you asking "who" or "why"?
If, "why", I would think it would be due to having more information to go into the real world with.
Kids are curious about life and sex is a big part of life. Better to arm them than to giving them little to work with.

"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young