Addicted to the almighty

[ACMESkydiver 0]

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I personally feel that religion is a comfort blanket to people. God is used over and over again as an excuse by people when both good and bad things happen in their lives. Im not sayin people having faith is necessarily a bad thing but I think some people should open their eyes and realise what the facts are and that having blind faith is like living in a bubble.

So in answer to your question - yes, I beleive that people have become dependant on religion as a way to comfort themselves.

Apologies that I do not have time to read more than the first page on this thread...

It might sound surprising coming from a woman of faith, but I think that too many people of faith rely upon divine intervention to take care of them. Too many people of faith use their God as an excuse to fail.

One of my favorite cliche's is that 'faith is an action word'. You can't sit on your butt and expect the Almighty to just fall into your lap and make life ok. You have to go and DO before you can receive any reward.

Kinda drives me nuts when some welfare chick that is pregnant again with a husband that hasn't had a job in 6 months, living with her grandma for her social security check, says, "God will save us! I just know it." ()

Some people use faith as an excuse to fail and be lazy. I think that is the bad 'addiction'. The good addiction is kind of like working out...you can be just as addicted to a daily workout as a daily hit, but a workout is a positive thing, and a hit will kill your brain cells.

~Jaye
Do not believe that possibly you can escape the reward of your action.

[beowulf 1]

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how do you know its the truth? Were you there?

No. But plenty of credible eye-witnesses were.

None that you can speak to or interview. ONLY ONE written account that can not be verified.

[pajarito 0]

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If there were evidence then there would be no need for faith.

You are justified by faith. That's got nothing to do with how much evidence there is.

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Your "evidence" didn't qualify in any way as evidence. You might want to look up the definition of evidence.

okay...

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ev·i·dence
1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.
–verb (used with object) 4. to make evident or clear; show clearly; manifest: He evidenced his approval by promising his full support.
5. to support by evidence: He evidenced his accusation with incriminating letters.
—Idiom6. in evidence, plainly visible; conspicuous: The first signs of spring are in evidence.

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For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20

[beowulf 1]

Does that make Homer's Odyssey and Illiad evidence of the Greek god's?

[JackC 0]

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If there were evidence then there would be no need for faith.

You are justified by faith. That's got nothing to do with how much evidence there is.

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Your "evidence" didn't qualify in any way as evidence. You might want to look up the definition of evidence.

okay...

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ev·i·dence
1. that which tends to prove or disprove something; ground for belief; proof.
2. something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
3. Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.
–verb (used with object) 4. to make evident or clear; show clearly; manifest: He evidenced his approval by promising his full support.
5. to support by evidence: He evidenced his accusation with incriminating letters.
—Idiom6. in evidence, plainly visible; conspicuous: The first signs of spring are in evidence.

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For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Romans 1:20

Your "evidence" relys on the assumption that the world was created. That's begging the question.

You cannot assume X in order to prove X.

[Remster 30]

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Does that make Homer's Odyssey and Illiad evidence of the Greek god's?

Of course not.










Unless you quote from it.

Remster

[TrophyHusband 0]

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Side Note:

God does not need our acceptance.

bullshit. if we don't accept him, we burn in hell for eternity.

you still haven't told me why such a loving god would create us in the first place, knowing that most of us would end up in hell. why would he give man desires and then tell him not to act on those desires? wouldn't it be easier to just not give the desires in the first place? what's the point?

"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com

[jakee 1,594]

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how do you know its the truth? Were you there?

No. But plenty of credible eye-witnesses were.

If you look in the incidents forum right now there is a post by the ex DZO about an inquest into a plane crash a couple of years ago. "Credible eyewitnesses" couldn't even agree if it was clear sunshine or blanket cloud at the time of the crash.

If eyewitness truth can be twisted so much in just 2 years, how far can it be twisted in 2,000?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[maadmax 0]

All of these questions about why God did this, why didn't He do that are very legitimate good questions. There is no person alive who doesn't ask those on a daily basis. But understanding God is not the issue. The issue is finding the Light, quieting the rage, embracing the peace that God offers. Religions and all of their rules and regulations be damned. They just add to the confusion and noise. Jesus said " Deny yourself pick up your cross, and follow me".

[funkcanna 0]

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Jesus said " Deny yourself pick up your cross, and follow me".

Was it those exact words? What tone of voice did he use?

I find it hilarious when people say "Jesus said..." Your basing so much on a ancient book! You cant beleive what you read in the newspaper, why should the Bible be any different? Its the biggest propaganda machine in history and people just suck it up!

I mean come on! "jesus said..." hahahaha ROFL!!!

To know requires proof
To believe requires evidence
To have faith requires neither.
If you stick with that, we'll never be confused again

[georgerussia 0]

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The culture you grow up in does influence your morals. However, motive is very important when judging right from wrong.

It doesn't matter as your statement was about morals itself, not about someone acting accorging to it.

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In your example above, cannibalism isn’t one of the Ten Commandments that we we're talking about. However, they might not do it if they were living by the “treat others how you would want to be treated”

Well, that's what they do. They eat the enemies, and they know if they become captives, they will be eaten as well. That's a good reason not to become a captive. Vahabbits are living by that as well - they are taught they have the rights to destroy others, because others are destroying them.

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Yes. Recently. I got a hefty ticket. I don’t plan to contest it, however, because I know I was wrong. I knew it when I did it.

Contesting the ticket (plea not guilty) does not mean you did not do it. It only means that the fact you were speeding should be proven beyond reasonable doubt (at least in Cali.).

But anyway, you behaved even worse than you described in the above post:

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When you do wrong, are you not aware that it is wrong and do it anyway for selfish purposes?

In this case not only you were wrong, and did it anyway for selfish purposes, but you were completely aware this is wrong. So why we you need any Jesus to tell you what's wrong, if some people do not obey it anyway?

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I thought you said above that you did have a conscience. Are you saying that doesn’t play a part in telling you right from wrong?

Let's a psychologist answer this. The only thing I could tell is that Jesus plays no parts here.

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And they did it without following the Moral Law that we’re discussing.

So how would you tell which Christian follows the Moral Law, and which doesn't? Let's take a modern example; Jehova Witnesses and baptists tell you that it is against the God's will to pray to the God's image (icons). And they could prove it with their interpretation of the Bible, and it looks correct. Does it mean that Catholics do not follow even the Bible basics, not to mention the Moral Law? We haven't even started talking about gay marriage, abortion and death penalty...

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No.

Then how do you explain the fact that the Christian community found it acceptable to have slaves before, but does not find it acceptable now, if the Moral Law didn't change? Doesn't it mean that all those Christians will definitely go to Hell for so obvious violation of the God's will?

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Murder would not be acceptable to both parties involved.

This is not correct. If Osama Bin Laden murders you, it will be perfectly acceptable for him.

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“Murder” is universally wrong. Insanity may be a defense, however, that still does not make it right (whatever your culture).

Well, what about self-defense murder? Murder in the war like Afganistan/Iraq, which is basically not defensive? What about murdering a suspect who is trying to run away by a police officer? Are they all wrong as well?

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Here’s a summary of the Moral Law that we’re talking about.
1. Love God

I don't see how your relationship with a fiction character could tell anything about your morals.

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2. Don’t worship something to suit yourself
3. Don’t take His name in vain
4. Remember the Sabbath
5. Honor your parents
6. Don’t murder
7. Don’t commit adultery
8. Don’t steal
9. Don’t lie
10. Don’t desire what belongs to another

That's exactly what I said - so basically a politican who takes bribes, and starts wars, but remembers the Sabbath and loves the God is morally right. Is that correct? He doesn't violate your Moral Law in any way.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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If God made you up to His standards, you’d be just like God.

But without the appropriate power. It is like teaching your child that he was born to be the King of the world. This definitely falls into "mean asshole" definition.

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The “God made me do it” defense wouldn’t work in a court room and it won’t work for you on Judgment Day.

But you know why? Because the courts do not recognize the existense of the God. If they did, this defense would definitely have a good chance to work.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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Firstly, because the God who gave you life said to.

I gave you life. This is written in the book I have. I admit I wrote it myself, but it was inspired by the God, so it must be true. How could I know it was inspired by the God? Because it is written in the book. So love me, I'm your God, and if you don't send me $100, you'll go to Hell.

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Secondly, because you are selfish by nature and fall way short of the standard set by the God who gave you life.

So basically your God is punishing us because he created us selfish by nature and fall way short of the standard set by the God? This is ridiculous.

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Thirdly, the only good (in God's eyes) which could possibly ever come from you would be because of His Holy Spirit in you and not of yourself.

This is a crap statement. Either you are trying to tell us that the Holy Spirit is inside everyone of us (and therefore there is no reason to love God), or there are people who did not do ANY good at all in their whole life (which is not true).

Another problem is that the whole definition of "good" is vague. Look on euthanasia for example; some consider it good, some consider it bad.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[georgerussia 0]

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If you'd sincerely trusted in the finished work of Jesus at the cross, you wouldn't kill, steal, or cheat.

This is completely unreasonable statement. Those things are completely different, and there is no way trusting work of Jesus at the cross somehow could intersect with killing. Ask the crusareds.

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If God had transformed you into a "new creature in Christ" and was growing you in holiness (e.g. born again), you wouldn't do those things.

That's just your words. Do you have any proof?
(No, the words written in the Bible do not prove anything, sorry).

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You're not saved because you’re a good person or for anything you've done. You're saved because you're a very bad person who's been forgiven.

So basically you could kill, steal and cheat your whole life, and then accept Jesus right before you die, and you will be forgiven, and saved, like the person who was crucified near Jesus. So why waste your time right now?

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Being sorry is evidenced by a change in direction (a “good” work being done in you).

This is not true either.

* Don't pray for me if you wanna help - just send me a check. *

[philh 0]

"If Chrsitianity leads us to recognise some kind of absolute good and evil why do they not agree on moral issue?

Some Chrsitians defended slavery and others opposed it.
Some Chrsitians suppurted the Nazis and others opposed it.

Look at many of the moral isues that arise today:
Stem cell research, gay rights, abortion , the war in Iraq etc etc You will find Christians on both sides of the debate - if there is such a thing as recongising absolute good and evil Christianity is no necessary root to it."

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"I guess we're not sheeple, after all. "

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Royd, why do I get the impression you have missed the point here? Do you actually think through what is being said here or not?
Of course Christians are not sheep, they have very different views on many moral issues. Some Chrsitians want to alloow gay priests, others want to execute gay people simply ebcause they are gay. That fact alone totally destroys your argument that Christianity leads to any kind of absolute morality. If Chrisitans disagree radcially on key moral issues clearly Chrsitianity does not give us our morality.

[pajarito 0]

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Does that make Homer's Odyssey and Illiad evidence of the Greek god's?

Let’s compare…

Manuscript Evidence

Historical Accuracy

Archaelogical Accuracy

Reliability

[pajarito 0]

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Your "evidence" relys on the assumption that the world was created. That's begging the question.

You cannot assume X in order to prove X.

And yours is based on the assumption that something came from nothing, blew up, and became an organized everything.

[JackC 0]

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Your "evidence" relys on the assumption that the world was created. That's begging the question.

You cannot assume X in order to prove X.

And yours is based on the assumption that something came from nothing, blew up, and became an organized everything.

No. Something has been observed to come from nothing, see Casimir Effect. The universe has been observed to be expanding, see cosmic microwave background and red shift. Stuff has been observed to get organised all on it's own, see crystal growth. The theories are self-consistent, based on empirical data, with real testable predictions.

You have no empirical data, no self-consistent theories and no testable predictions. You lose.

[pajarito 0]

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bullshit. if we don't accept him, we burn in hell for eternity.

What Bible verse says that?

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you still haven't told me why such a loving god would create us in the first place, knowing that most of us would end up in hell. why would he give man desires and then tell him not to act on those desires? wouldn't it be easier to just not give the desires in the first place? what's the point?

These are all such very old arguments.

***This question raises many issues. If God is all loving, why would He send people to hell? What is hell? Is it a place of eternal torment? Why create creatures knowing they will end up in an eternity of damnation? Is God helpless to save them all?
Often times, skeptics try and present an idea so that fairness and compassion necessitate that the Christian God cannot be real. For example, they sometimes say that a truly loving God would not create people He knew would go to eternal punishment. Of course this is only an opinion, but it is sometime raised nonetheless. As one skeptic put it, "If God truly loves us (this sacrificial love you talk about) then he would simply say 'I do not want the child to be born'. He is in control and has that ability doesn't he? As I would not wish any of my children who I love to go through a life of agonizing pain." The main problem with such an approach is that it is overly simplistic and based on emotionalism, not scripture. So, let's look at what the Word of God says.
First of all, when God made Adam, He made him good. Adam had the freedom to choose to obey or disobey God. Adam is the one who rebelled. God did not make him rebel and God is not responsible for Adam's rebellion. It would be like a parent having a child knowing that the child would eventually disobey the parent. Does this means that the parent is responsible for the child's rebellion when it occurs because the parent knew it would happen? Of course not. Furthermore, if the parent has more children, does he/she not know that some children may very well turn out good and others bad? Should the parents then not have children because some of them might turn out bad? The skeptic, if he is consistent, would urge parents not to have any children at all lest some of them turn out bad.
But the skeptic might say, "But God knows for a fact who will be bad and good. Why allow the people going to hell to be born in the first place?" But, if this is the case and if God arranged it that no "bad" people were born, then we would all go to hell. You see, Jesus is the only way to be forgiven of our sins. His sacrifice on the cross was necessary in order to make it possible for us to be saved because everyone, "good" and "bad" has sinned. If there were no "bad" people born, then there wouldn't be any "bad" people around who would have sent Jesus to the cross. If that never happened, then we wouldn't be saved from our sins because Jesus would never have been unjustly condemned and His sacrifice would never have happened.
Second, if someone says that it is wrong for God to allow someone to be born who will go to hell, then would he rather have God remove our freedom to rebel against Him so that no one can be blamed for sin? If the critic says he only want those people born who go to heaven, then how are they truly free and how would that fulfill the ultimate plan of God to sacrifice His Son for the redemption of mankind?
Third, God could have reasons for sending people to hell that we cannot understand.
Fourth, God is just and always does what is right. Therefore, sending people to hell is the right thing to do, especially when we understand that God is eternally holy and those who sin against God incur an infinite offense because the infinite God is the one who is offended.
Finally, the Bible simply tells us that people will go to hell. They go there because they are not covered by the sacrifice of Christ. Whether or not they are created or not does not effect the fact that sinners must be punished; otherwise, the holiness and righteousness of God mean nothing.

[pajarito 0]

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If you look in the incidents forum right now there is a post by the ex DZO about an inquest into a plane crash a couple of years ago. "Credible eyewitnesses" couldn't even agree if it was clear sunshine or blanket cloud at the time of the crash.

If eyewitness truth can be twisted so much in just 2 years, how far can it be twisted in 2,000?

Way oversimplified strawman argument.

[beowulf 1]

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Does that make Homer's Odyssey and Illiad evidence of the Greek god's?

Let’s compare…

Manuscript Evidence

Historical Accuracy

Archaelogical Accuracy

Reliability

all of that is immaterial when using it as evidence of the existence of God or gods. I didn't question any of the historical accuracy or that any of the place described in the bible exist. None of that proves that the Christian God exists. Just like the Odyssey and the Illiad don't prove that the Greek gods exist.

Just because someone wrote a story about a god that they believe in, in a historical context does not mean that the god they are writing about exists. If the bible is proof of the existence of the Christian God then the Odyssey and the Illiad are proof of the existence of the Greek gods.

[philh 0]

Jackc is right somehting can come form nothing. but I htink its more precise to say that quantum vacuum fluctuations are causeless events where a particle pops into existence and then disapeears out of existence very quickly. the amount of time it can exist for is a function of Hesinbergs uncertainty equation and therefore the more energy it has the less time it can exist for. Now the universe is estimated to have 0 net energy becuase the positive mass energy is balanced by negative gratitaional energy. So its perfectly consistent with the laws of phhysics for the universe to pop into existence without a cause and exist forever.
the casimir effect is a consequence of these vacuum flucuations. Its really tiresome to hear theists say nothign can come form nothing. they are wrong and even if they were right it wouldnt prove their god . After all why can god can from nothign but the inverse cant? Its so silly.

[pajarito 0]

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No. Something has been observed to come from nothing, see Casimir Effect. The universe has been observed to be expanding, see cosmic microwave background and red shift. Stuff has been observed to get organised all on it's own, see crystal growth. The theories are self-consistent, based on empirical data, with real testable predictions.

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Denial of Cause & Effect

Some physicists assert that quantum mechanics violates this cause/effect principle and can produce something from nothing. For instance, Paul Davies writes:

… spacetime could appear out of nothingness as a result of a quantum transition. … Particles can appear out of nowhere without specific causation … Yet the world of quantum mechanics routinely produces something out of nothing.9

But this is a gross misapplication of quantum mechanics. Quantum mechanics never produces something out of nothing. Davies himself admitted on the previous page that his scenario ‘should not be taken too seriously.’

Theories that the universe is a quantum fluctuation must presuppose that there was something to fluctuate—their ‘quantum vacuum’ is a lot of matter-antimatter potential—not ‘nothing’. Also, I have plenty of theoretical and practical experience at quantum mechanics (QM) from my doctoral thesis work. For example, Raman spectroscopy is a QM phenomenon, but from the wavenumber and intensity of the spectral bands, we can work out the masses of the atoms and force constants of the bonds causing the bands. To help the atheist position that the universe came into existence without a cause, one would need to find Raman bands appearing without being caused by transitions in vibrational quantum states, or alpha particles appearing without pre-existing nuclei, etc. If QM was as acausal as some people think, then we should not assume that these phenomena have a cause. Then I may as well burn my Ph.D. thesis, and all the spectroscopy journals should quit, as should any nuclear physics research.

Also, if there is no cause, there is no explanation why this particular universe appeared at a particular time, nor why it was a universe and not, say, a banana or cat which appeared. This universe can’t have any properties to explain its preferential coming into existence, because it wouldn’t have any properties until it actually came into existence.

[pajarito 0]

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all of that is immaterial when using it as evidence of the existence of God or gods. I didn't question any of the historical accuracy or that any of the place described in the bible exist. None of that proves that the Christian God exists. Just like the Odyssey and the Illiad don't prove that the Greek gods exist.

Just because someone wrote a story about a god that they believe in, in a historical context does not mean that the god they are writing about exists. If the bible is proof of the existence of the Christian God then the Odyssey and the Illiad are proof of the existence of the Greek gods.

You're right. I just assumed that you'd look into it deeper than you did. My bad. What it does show is that you can trust the Bible. The entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation points to the person of Jesus Christ. He equated Himself with God. He proved who He was by what He did. I guess what I was trying to show is that the vast preponderance of the evidence in the Bible shows the existence of God. You're right in that it does not prove His existence like an experiment in a laboratory. That's not really its purpose. However, you're the one who brought up literary source as a means to show God's authenticity (I think the Bible far outweighs the Iliad by the way). His Creation and your conscience prove the existence of God. THAT is as obvious as the nose on your face. You CHOOSE to deny it and that is your choice. You can't have a true relationship with anyone unless they have the ability to deny it. Despite all the evidence for all of this, it is true that you must come to the Father through faith alone. Not only that, but the faith of a child. That does not mean being intellectually void and also through any lack of evidence. It means that you must put down ALL of your self-righteous, selfish pride, and arrogance before you will be allowed to step into His presence. Sadly, that is the hardest thing for us all to do.

[Butters 0]

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6. Don’t murder

Why is it moral for your God to murder but it is immoral for you to murder?

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7. Don’t commit adultery

Why is it moral to commit adultery if your God tells you to but it is immoral to commit adultery if your God does not tell you to?

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch