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QuoteQuote
I work for a health care corporation that owns a network of seven hospitals. .
Well, that helps you to be objective.
Don't confuse that with working for an insurance provider, the root cause of crappy health care.
The only point I wanted to share was that people without insurance DO get treated. If that wasn't the case, then my hospital's bad debt write offs wouldn't be in the millions.
I STILL don't want government regulated health care. At least, not as my only option.
QuoteYou need to read the thread. That is one good reason I gave for basic coverage for all - the clogged ERs.
no bitching when you go to Emergency and there are 20 welfare kids with sniffles in front of you. $20 more in taxes, and that ER would be wide open for business.
if everybody had health insurance, the er's would still be clogged with children with colds and people with headaches. the reason is that you would have to wait 3 or 4 weeks to see a primary care provider. people with sick children want them seen now whether or not they have insurance. even in military hospitals where everyone that goes in is covered, many people still use the er for primary care.
"Your scrotum is quite nice" - Skymama
www.kjandmegan.com
QuoteAsking why kallend should pay for a war he opposes is a fair response.
Right. Like why does he consistently respond to posts that may be relevant in the grand scheme of things, but are completely irrelevant to the topic at hand?
QuoteIf you have health insurance you are probably paying for some else's health care already. It's a silly argument.
Paying for private health insurance is a voluntary arrangement that individuals have a say in. There's a difference in voluntarily participating in a program versus being told "this is it. My way or the highway".
rehmwa 2
QuoteSince I'm healthy and have health insurance required by my employer, I'm ALREADY paying for someone else's health care, along with a whole bunch of overhead.
that's not good enough. all those people also contribute directly to your plan.
you are the filthy rich, how many personal checks from your post tax income have you written this month to pay for someone in the ER that doesn't have insurance? Like Jenfly does.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Zipp0 1
Quoteif everybody had health insurance, the er's would still be clogged with children with colds and people with headaches. the reason is that you would have to wait 3 or 4 weeks to see a primary care provider.
Sorry - I don't buy it. If I call my doc with a cold or a headache, he will tell me to take some aspirin and call back if it doesn't go away in 5 days. So those people would not clog the doc offices. They clog the ER becuase you can't call the ER with your symptoms.
And if someone has a cold or headache for three weeks, they are overdue for an office visit anyway.
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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.
mnealtx 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYou're right of course. Let's continue to deny adequate health care to children because you don't approve of their parent. Why couldn't I see that?
Uh oh! She pulled the children card Lawrocket. Your now a heartless bastard who wants the poor to die!
He is what he is and you are what you are ...neither of you seem to care much beyond what's in it for you.
Tell me something, sunshine. Why should anyone be forced to pay for the healthcare of strangers? How we (as a country) get to the point where people feel entitled to force others to foot the bill?
If you have to ask, peon of darkness, any answer would be meaningless to you.
I don't expect to see any one of you supporting this griping about the cost of the war, then....theft by proxy is theft by proxy, regardless of where the money is going.
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
Quotedoes every issue come back to that for you? do you sit around thinking of how to tie everything back in to the war and the administration or does it come naturally?
John makes a valid point in bringing up the cost of war (waste of money that would had been better spent here).
I was looking at some pictures of children who have lost legs, arms, faces disfigured in Iraq the other day. Horrible stuff. There were also pictures of men, women and Americans with their guts spilled out onto the dirty road where the fell after being shot. The children were being treated for the injuries that this war brought them. The Army guy standing next to one child was beaming a big ol' grin and there was a caption about the wooden leg that the U.S. sent to the kid. So nice of us to send that kid a piece of shit wooden leg. Where are those who complain about children in the U.S. getting care? Why are not those same people screaming about some Iraqi kid getting a crappy looking wooden leg. That lousey stick that the Army slammed on to his ugly stump most likely cost the taxpayers thousands of dollars when any old stick laying in the street would serve the same purpose. I also look at pictures of people dying of AIDS in Africa as well as other countries, including the U.S.. Why don't the same people scream about the billions spent in Africa? Why only scream about Americans getting help? Is it only that it makes you feel good about yourself to say that we americans are always happy to help those in other countries. I recall, on one past thread how some were beaming about how much money that the U.S. sent to help those who lost everything during the tsunami. A very large portion of that money never made it to the victims. Why not scream about them getting some help?
It really does appear that Americans hate Americans more than the rest of the world.
If you really want something that is worth complaining about, click this link -
http://mindprod.com/politics/iraqwarpix.html#IRAQWARPIX
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
jenfly00 0
QuoteQuoteQuoteTell me something, sunshine. Why should anyone be forced to pay for the healthcare of strangers? How we (as a country) get to the point where people feel entitled to force others to foot the bill?
If you have to ask, peon of darkness, any answer would be meaningless to you.
In other words - you got nothing!
That is indeed what I said. I got nothing for you.
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"O brave new world that has such people in it".
"O brave new world that has such people in it".
QuoteI see now why you make the big bucks.
Oh, wouldn't that be nice if that were the case. I'll tell you what - why don't we put my net worth up against your net worth and see whose is higher?
Do you want to know MY thoughts on insuring "the children?" If the state is going to do it, then here's how it works:
The state provides health insurance for the child. However, the state initiates a proceeding against the parents of the children to recover it's money spent on the children for insurance.
Every state has a Department of Child Support Services (typically enforced by the counties or parishes) where a parent will be sued for child support payments. Soi, the system is already set up to hold parents responsible for paying for their kids.
So, what you do is, sue the parents for the insurance premiums and uncovered healthcare costs, such as copays, deductibles, etc. Just like they do for child support. Theh get a wage garnishment order - just like they do for child support.
What you THEN have is a system where the government is making sure that people hold up their responsibilities. There is a government action that I can support.
So, I ask whether or not this is evil? Is it a horrible thing to expect people to take care of their own business? I suspect you may believe so.
The Simpsons had an episode where Homer Simpson ran for Springfield Sanitation Commissioner. His slogan, "Can't someone else do it?" He won the lection on the basis that other people will take care of the citizens' garbage. Of course it was horrendously expensive and not sustainable when individual citizens are no longer expected to do their part. I suppose this is your thinking - "Can't someone else pay for my kids?"
And yet one more thing - is your opinion of the population so low that you dont think that they can take care of themselves? When the message to people is that they do not have to comply with any standards then they do not comply with standards.
QuoteCast all the blame you want
Oh, I do. I blame the PARENTS for not taking care of their kids. It's not my duty to care for other people's kids. But, you know, I haven't had a date with my wife in over three years. I'd certainly like to have one. Instead of paying for food and insurance and medicine for my kids, I personally would rather blow it on a night at the Ahwanee Hotel in Yosemite with my wife - you know, have a righteous meal, good alcohol and have fun of a different sort.
I could afford to do this - IF I did not make the choice to take care of responisbilities instead of other things. I'm SOOOOOOOOOOOOO evil and uncaring, aren't I? Yeah, the fact that I make sacrifices to care for my kids doesn't mean that others should do the same. In fact, since I'm so willing to make sacrifices for my kids, I should make MORE sacrifices for other people's kids. That way, if I'm making sacrifices, they don't have to.
I realize how uncaring I have been. I should stop taking care of my kids and let someone else do it. That's what true caring is all about. Here I was thinking that my greatest moral and ethical obligation was to take care of my business so others don't have to. Now I know that my greatest moral and ethical obligation is to take care of others' responsibilities, while hoping others will take care of my responsibilities.
Thank you for setting me straight.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteTell me something, sunshine. Why should anyone be forced to pay for the healthcare of strangers? How we (as a country) get to the point where people feel entitled to force others to foot the bill?
If you have to ask, peon of darkness, any answer would be meaningless to you.
In other words - you got nothing!
That is indeed what I said. I got nothing for you.
That's not happiness to see me, is it?
Best hope that something catastrophic does not enter your cushy world. Say, you were paralyzed from the neck down and your wife was also injured in a catastrophic way due to something beyond your control (maybe you hit black ice and lost control and flipped the car. It happens.). You have used up your insurance and they are no longer going to renew your policy. Other insurers will not touch you or her. You are without coverage for you, your wife and children. Suddenly your child falls ill! If I were like you, I'd say fuck his stupid little snot nose kid. It is not MY problem that his child may have a cancer. WHY should the taxes I pay have to go to give his child treatment for cancer? Why should my taxes help some moron who injured himself and his wife in a car accident? I'll be just like you in this scenario and say tough fucking do-dah if your child will die if there is no treatment. Tough fucking do-dah if you need treatment for your condition. I'll be just like you in this scenario and help to throw your paralyzed ass out on to the street and I'll be just like you as I shine up my kicking boots to give your sick child the royal fucking punt. It don't feel very good to be like you but, I see your point that it is much better to save the government money to use for anything but helping Americans and it could be much fun to laugh at sick and dying people, if I were like you. Glad I am not. Must be nice to be so void of compassion.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
You really do have a knack for promoting open honest dialogue.
QuoteYou really do have a knack for promoting open honest dialogue.
Just placing in a scenario that can happen to anyone.
How many people have you met in which something beyond their control has happened and they lost everything? Shit happens everyday to good people. Not only here in the U.S. but worldwide. Take a good hard look at those in Iraq. Children with no legs or arms or disfigured. Whay are they to do? They have no insurance. Should the U.S. help them? If you were to take a note from Lawrocket, fuck no we shouldn't help them. It's not my problem. Why should my tax dollars pay for their medical needs. We freed the ungrateful fucks! Is that not enough? (Actually, I believe that we owe those kids in Iraq everything for what our government brought on them.)
Hey, do you throw rocks at the Shriners Hospital everytime you drive by one. After all, they do take charity money and tax dollars. They believe that all children are equal and deserving of equal care whether that child comes from a wealthy family or the poorest family. Those socialist pricks! How dare they give equally!
For everyone;
Do yourself a favor and go down to a childrens hospital and sit with a child that will die without treatment. If you still feel that your taxes would be better spent on anything other then you cannot be reached and counted on for compassion. If you still feel that the child is not deserving, I will wish for you the same fate.
"...And once you're gone, you can't come back
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
When you're out of the blue and into the black."
Neil Young
Zipp0 1
QuoteYou really do have a knack for promoting open honest dialogue.
It seemed pretty open and honest to me. The jist of it was - You may just reap what you sew. When it happens it's also known as 'poetic justice'.
There was a time, not long ago at all, where EVERYONE EXPECTED to get health coverage for their families with a full time job. What happened? Many companies decided to end coverage and add it to the bottom line so that top execs could make more money in salary, and the stock price would rise. Also, health care costs increased, causing many companies to offer less or no coverage.
I think maybe the way to address the issue is with a return to strong, large labor unions, and collective bargaining. I think all full time jobs should offer health care. Why would anyone take a job that didn't?
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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.
The key word, which you seemed to have missed, is PROMOTING.QuoteQuoteYou really do have a knack for promoting open honest dialogue.
It seemed pretty open and honest to me. The jist of it was - You may just reap what you sew. When it happens it's also known as 'poetic justice'.
Painting the other guy's position in extremist, negative terms really opens things up.
QuoteThere was a time, not long ago at all, where EVERYONE EXPECTED to get health coverage for their families with a full time job. What happened? Many companies decided to end coverage and add it to the bottom line so that top execs could make more money in salary, and the stock price would rise.
Oh
So, that's how it all played out?
QuoteSay, you were paralyzed from the neck down and your wife was also injured in a catastrophic way due to something beyond your control (maybe you hit black ice and lost control and flipped the car. It happens.). You have used up your insurance and they are no longer going to renew your policy
Which insurance? Health insurance or the disability insurance that I bought? I've got both, actually. Quite nice to know I have it, plus the umbrella policies.
QuoteOther insurers will not touch you or her. You are without coverage for you, your wife and children.
Good thing my wife has coverage, too.
QuoteSuddenly your child falls ill! If I were like you, I'd say fuck his stupid little snot nose kid. It is not MY problem that his child may have a cancer. WHY should the taxes I pay have to go to give his child treatment for cancer? Why should my taxes help some moron who injured himself and his wife in a car accident?
And you'd be within your rights to say you aren't paying shit for my kid. And it's a good thing because both of them have health insurance with umbrellas (umbrella policies are cheap, man!) as well as life insurance policies (so they'll never run the risk of being denied in the future).
QuoteI'll be just like you in this scenario and say tough fucking do-dah if your child will die if there is no treatment. Tough fucking do-dah if you need treatment for your condition. I'll be just like you in this scenario and help to throw your paralyzed ass out on to the street and I'll be just like you as I shine up my kicking boots to give your sick child the royal fucking punt.
It's a good thing that won't be necessary, what with the numerous policies on my children, my wife and me to ensure that whatever hit we take will be mitigated. (And that $40k that my wife and I between have socked away in a Health Savaings Account will lessen the deductible loads, as well).
QuoteIt don't feel very good to be like you but, I see your point that it is much better to save the government money to use for anything but helping Americans and it could be much fun to laugh at sick and dying people, if I were like you.
I don't laugh at sick or dying people. I've seen plenty of them in my day, thanks. But I also think that steps could have been taken on your part to ensure that you did not face the circumstances that you are facing today.
Shit happens. Shit can happen to me. If shit happens to me, the financial burden will be as minimal as possible on my wife, kids and me because I have insured myself up the ass. That means no partying for me. No skydiving. No entertainment for me that costs money. No fancy car. No sharp clothes. None of that because I PLAN for the worst and hope for the best.
QuoteMust be nice to be so void of compassion.
Compassion? Compassion is one thing - moral duty is another. My kids are going to be raised to behave and not get away with any bullshit. To me, the near term pain equals long term compassion. My physical therapist showed me no compassion when I was rehabbiong my knee. She - along with my drill sergeant in basic - were the cruelest and kindest people I ever knew.
Perhaps "cruelest" and 'kindest" are incompatible in your world. That's fine. But I know pretty well what kindness and cruelty are. I see them every day.
My wife is hotter than your wife.
Just as your statement above is just as silly.
Here's a question for you. What do you think will happen if the govt take over. Friday uncle Sam is in charge of your health care. what is going to happen or how. I am off to bed but expect to read something good when I wake up.
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