Ward Churchill: It took a while but they finally did the right thing

[rushmc 23]

http://newsmax.com/archives/ic/2007/7/24/203647.shtml?s=ic

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

I know, he was not fired for what he said

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[ryoder 1,590]

I could never see what the big deal was.

First, that article was written right after 9/11, but it wasn't until a couple years later that suddenly a big fuss was made over it.

Second, did you ever try to read that article? I tried twice. NOBODY would willingly read that whole thing unless they were under duress. I'm sure forcing someone to read it must violate the Geneva convention.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[rushmc 23]

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I could never see what the big deal was.

First, that article was written right after 9/11, but it wasn't until a couple years later that suddenly a big fuss was made over it.

Second, did you ever try to read that article? I tried twice. NOBODY would willingly read that whole thing unless they were under duress. I'm sure forcing someone to read it must violate the Geneva convention.

No, I did not read or try to read it But after your post here I sure as hell am not going to try now

Good points though and thanks.

The only problem I have with profs like this is if they do not allow or acept differening positions, opinions or viewpoints.

Thanks again

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[NCclimber 0]

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I could never see what the big deal was.

Really?

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First, that article was written right after 9/11, but it wasn't until a couple years later that suddenly a big fuss was made over it.

I think it was his parlaying that one article into an entire book and then using that book to promote himself as a worthwhile public speaker.

[JohnnyD 0]

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I could never see what the big deal was.

First, that article was written right after 9/11, but it wasn't until a couple years later that suddenly a big fuss was made over it.

Second, did you ever try to read that article? I tried twice. NOBODY would willingly read that whole thing unless they were under duress. I'm sure forcing someone to read it must violate the Geneva convention.

No, I did not read or try to read it But after your post here I sure as hell am not going to try now

Good points though and thanks.

The only problem I have with profs like this is if they do not allow or acept differening positions, opinions or viewpoints.

Thanks again

Par for the course.
You think they did the right thing in firing him and admit that it had to do with what he wrote. Of course, you haven't even read it, so you are just regurgitating what your favorite "opinion journalist" is saying on his/her show.

Yes, I read the article. Twice. It sucked and was a nearly irrational grasp at a parallel between Nazi sympathizers and workers in the WTCs. Mostly seemed to be a large chunk of anger at the incident being directed at an illogical target. I would expect a failing grade if I turned it in.

Lastly, I believe Churchill's popularity with the student body at CU was related to his embrace of differing positions, opinions, and viewpoints. Most characterize his classes as debate centric.

Moral of the Story: The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but if the wheel is too squeaky, it gets pulled off and replaced.

[warpedskydiver 0]

Much like his claim of being a Native American, only no Chief will claim his sorry ass.

I guess Ward Churchill forgot to find out one thing.

Native Americans know who's who.

He is nothing more than a sorry ass whiteboy trying to be an Indian.

He should have quit while he was merely beating off to Billy Jack movies in the 70's


I guess he never figured out that "Pole Smoker" was not a proper Indian name
DSE I bet you will split your sides laughing after that one!

[rushmc 23]

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I could never see what the big deal was.

First, that article was written right after 9/11, but it wasn't until a couple years later that suddenly a big fuss was made over it.

Second, did you ever try to read that article? I tried twice. NOBODY would willingly read that whole thing unless they were under duress. I'm sure forcing someone to read it must violate the Geneva convention.

No, I did not read or try to read it But after your post here I sure as hell am not going to try now

Good points though and thanks.

The only problem I have with profs like this is if they do not allow or acept differening positions, opinions or viewpoints.

Thanks again

Par for the course.
You think they did the right thing in firing him and admit that it had to do with what he wrote. Of course, you haven't even read it, so you are just regurgitating what your favorite "opinion journalist" is saying on his/her show.

Yes, I read the article. Twice. It sucked and was a nearly irrational grasp at a parallel between Nazi sympathizers and workers in the WTCs. Mostly seemed to be a large chunk of anger at the incident being directed at an illogical target. I would expect a failing grade if I turned it in.

Lastly, I believe Churchill's popularity with the student body at CU was related to his embrace of differing positions, opinions, and viewpoints. Most characterize his classes as debate centric.

Moral of the Story: The squeaky wheel gets the grease, but if the wheel is too squeaky, it gets pulled off and replaced.

Shit man, can't a guy have some fun?
Sometimes things are so trivial they just need to be played with but you would rather insult someone to make yourself feel better I guess.

Have a nice day I guess

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnnyD 0]

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Much like his claim of being a Native American, only no Chief will claim his sorry ass.

I guess Ward Churchill forgot to find out one thing.

Native Americans know who's who.

He is nothing more than a sorry ass whiteboy trying to be an Indian.

He should have quit while he was merely beating off to Billy Jack movies in the 70's

Actually, Ben Nighthorse Campbell (A Colorado senator - now retired) gave an interesting and comprehensive explanation of how Churchill's Native American heritage claims are valid. He wasn't supporting him, just explaining the process of getting your name on the rolls. Churchill is on the rolls, therefore, he is basically a Native American.

[warpedskydiver 0]

It may have been said but then again, that is a politician speaking.

If he had some voracity to his claims a Chief would have probably said so.

I mean, that is their job right?

[JohnnyD 0]

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Shit man, can't a guy have some fun?
Sometimes things are so trivial they just need to be played with but you would rather insult someone to make yourself feel better I guess.

Have a nice day I guess

If a year long legal battle to keep your job and then losing and getting fired on national television is your idea of fun, I guess you can keep it.

[JohnnyD 0]

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It may have been said but then again, that is a politician speaking.

If he had some voracity to his claims a Chief would have probably said so.

I mean, that is their job right?

Ben Nighthorse Campbell is retired and was/is very respected in Colorado. His purpose was not to defend Churchill at all. In fact, his party was in the Governor's mansion at the time and very publicly called for Churchill's removal. The Native American community has been about as vocal as they can be in support of Churchill, although their voice is just not that loud. Also, there are many Native Americans who are against Churchill because they don't believe him to be a true Native American.

[warpedskydiver 0]

I am aware of that.

In the words of my longtime friend, who actually lives on a reservation

"If Ward Churchill is an Indian, I am an Eskimo"

[rushmc 23]

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Shit man, can't a guy have some fun?
Sometimes things are so trivial they just need to be played with but you would rather insult someone to make yourself feel better I guess.

Have a nice day I guess

If a year long legal battle to keep your job and then losing and getting fired on national television is your idea of fun, I guess you can keep it.

People are and should be resposible for thier actions. This guy made his bed now he has to sleep in it. Life sucks huh!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[JohnnyD 0]

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I am aware of that.

In the words of my longtime friend, who actually lives on a reservation

"If Ward Churchill is an Indian, I am an Eskimo"

No argument from me. It is what it is.

[JohnnyD 0]

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Shit man, can't a guy have some fun?
Sometimes things are so trivial they just need to be played with but you would rather insult someone to make yourself feel better I guess.

Have a nice day I guess

If a year long legal battle to keep your job and then losing and getting fired on national television is your idea of fun, I guess you can keep it.

People are and should be resposible for thier actions. This guy made his bed now he has to sleep in it. Life sucks huh!

Yeah, sooner or later we will all hit our bumps in the road. Some may run off the road entirely and end up in the ditch. I fail to see how that is fun or funny.

[NCclimber 0]

From Wikipedia:

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Both of his birth parents are listed as white on the 1930 census, as are all of his other known ancestors on previous censuses and other official documents.

Churchill claims ancestry of three different tribes, Creek, Cherokee[30], and Metis[31][32] and states that he is an enrolled[33] member of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians. The Rocky Mountain News investigated and found "no evidence of a single Indian ancestor" [of Churchill's].[34] The Denver Post's genealogical investigation resulted in the same conclusion. Ernestine Berry, who was on the tribe's enrollment committee (Keetoowah) and served on the tribal council for four years, told the The Denver Post: "He (Churchill) was trying to get recognized as an Indian. He could not prove he was an Indian (Cherokee) at all." [35] Moreover, the United Keetoowah Band responded to Churchill's claim by clarifying that he was not an enrolled member, but an honorary associate member (just as former President Bill Clinton was) for few months in 1994. According to tribal chief George Wickliffe, Churchill's claims to Keetowah membership "are deemed fraudulent by the United Keetoowah Band," and that Churchill "could not prove any Cherokee ancestry." [36] According to a statement issued by the Keetowah tribe, Churchill's membership claim after receiving an associate membership "is akin to receiving an honorary doctorate, and then claiming to have received eight years worth of university education." [37]

Wikipedia isn't without it's mistakes, but all these direct quotes are documented.

[JohnnyD 0]

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From Wikipedia:

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Both of his birth parents are listed as white on the 1930 census, as are all of his other known ancestors on previous censuses and other official documents.

Churchill claims ancestry of three different tribes, Creek, Cherokee[30], and Metis[31][32] and states that he is an enrolled[33] member of the United Keetoowah Band of Cherokee Indians. The Rocky Mountain News investigated and found "no evidence of a single Indian ancestor" [of Churchill's].[34] The Denver Post's genealogical investigation resulted in the same conclusion. Ernestine Berry, who was on the tribe's enrollment committee (Keetoowah) and served on the tribal council for four years, told the The Denver Post: "He (Churchill) was trying to get recognized as an Indian. He could not prove he was an Indian (Cherokee) at all." [35] Moreover, the United Keetoowah Band responded to Churchill's claim by clarifying that he was not an enrolled member, but an honorary associate member (just as former President Bill Clinton was) for few months in 1994. According to tribal chief George Wickliffe, Churchill's claims to Keetowah membership "are deemed fraudulent by the United Keetoowah Band," and that Churchill "could not prove any Cherokee ancestry." [36] According to a statement issued by the Keetowah tribe, Churchill's membership claim after receiving an associate membership "is akin to receiving an honorary doctorate, and then claiming to have received eight years worth of university education." [37]

Wikipedia isn't without it's mistakes, but all these direct quotes are documented.

Again, no disagreement. He is on the rolls somewhere, so his claims of Native American heritage are valid - sort of.
Seems to be a moot point now, but it does highlight one very large elephant that seems to have been hiding in the corner. CU circumvented their tenior process in Churchill's case because they wanted a Native American in their ethnic studies department. Turns out that wasn't a good idea.

[NCclimber 0]

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the United Keetoowah Band responded to Churchill's claim by clarifying that he was not an enrolled member, but an honorary associate member (just as former President Bill Clinton was) for few months in 1994. According to tribal chief George Wickliffe, Churchill's claims to Keetowah membership "are deemed fraudulent by the United Keetoowah Band," and that Churchill "could not prove any Cherokee ancestry." [36] According to a statement issued by the Keetowah tribe, Churchill's membership claim after receiving an associate membership "is akin to receiving an honorary doctorate, and then claiming to have received eight years worth of university education."

Again, no disagreement. He is on the rolls somewhere, so his claims of Native American heritage are valid - sort of.

It's about reading comprehension.

[ryoder 1,590]

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[CU circumvented their tenure process in Churchill's case because they wanted a Native American in their ethnic studies department. Turns out that wasn't a good idea.

They should have just appointed Ben Nighthorse Campbell.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[JohnnyD 0]

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the United Keetoowah Band responded to Churchill's claim by clarifying that he was not an enrolled member, but an honorary associate member (just as former President Bill Clinton was) for few months in 1994. According to tribal chief George Wickliffe, Churchill's claims to Keetowah membership "are deemed fraudulent by the United Keetoowah Band," and that Churchill "could not prove any Cherokee ancestry." [36] According to a statement issued by the Keetowah tribe, Churchill's membership claim after receiving an associate membership "is akin to receiving an honorary doctorate, and then claiming to have received eight years worth of university education."

Again, no disagreement. He is on the rolls somewhere, so his claims of Native American heritage are valid - sort of.

It's about reading comprehension.

Or possibly that wikipedia is not the authoritative source for information.
Again - in an interview with Ben Nighthorse Campbell (a Colorado senator), he explained that Churchill was on the rolls somewhere. That is how he was able to circumvent the tenior process at CU. That does not automatically mean that he is of Native American descent, just that he is on the rolls somewhere. They didn't say where, they were just explaining how it worked.

[mnealtx 0]

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Much like his claim of being a Native American, only no Chief will claim his sorry ass.

I guess Ward Churchill forgot to find out one thing.

Native Americans know who's who.

He is nothing more than a sorry ass whiteboy trying to be an Indian.

He should have quit while he was merely beating off to Billy Jack movies in the 70's

Actually, Ben Nighthorse Campbell (A Colorado senator - now retired) gave an interesting and comprehensive explanation of how Churchill's Native American heritage claims are valid. He wasn't supporting him, just explaining the process of getting your name on the rolls. Churchill is on the rolls, therefore, he is basically a Native American.

If I recall correctly, the tribe removed him from the rolls. I may be mis-remembering, though. Odd, though, how you can become a member of a tribe w/o having any Indian blood.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[mnealtx 0]

Actually, CU allowed people to self-designate... Churchill self-designated as Indian.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[squarecanopy 0]

EXACTLY. That dumbass is no more a Native American than my cup of Columbian coffee. Just because he says he is and his peers in the world of academia accepted that does not make it reality. And as the article accurately states, his rant on Americans being "little Eichmanns" was not even reviewed or considered in the process of reviewing his employment at CU and subsequent firing. He was fired for lying, cheating, and stealing other people's articles and artwork. Justice was done by the CU board.

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

[DSE 5]

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I guess he never figured out that "Pole Smoker" was not a proper Indian name
DSE I bet you will split your sides laughing after that one!

An oldie but a goodie.
However, Ben Nighthorse-Campbell has said that Churchill's name is on the roles.
What that means could be many things or nothing.
Name being on the role means he's got a pedigree.
Here's one for you...
Lakotah tribe says "5/8 Lakotah for enrollment card."
Southern Utes say "5/8 Ute for enrollment card."

Lakotah and Southern Ute have a child.
What tribe is the child?

Churchill's issues are far deeper than his heritage, culture, ethnology. They are merely the anchors to which the ropes he'll be hanged with are tied.