Background checks and waiting periods?

[normiss 891]

apparently don't always work:
Pop!


How her check came back clean from the state ...

[Rookie120 0]

If the check came back clean from the state why are they suiung thegun store and not the state?

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Zipp0 1]

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If the check came back clean from the state why are they suiung thegun store and not the state?

Because she checked the box YES that says "Have you ever been declared mentally defective?" The store has an obligation not to sell her a weapon based on that alone.

Lucky for me, only a few people on DZ.com have declared to me "You are mentally defective!" and not a doctor, so I can probably get my AK-47 tonight, assuming they have one in stock!

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[normiss 891]

not counting the three day "cooling off" period, you would be correct!

unless you were to go to a gun show...

[JohnRich 4]

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Because she checked the box YES that says "Have you ever been declared mentally defective?" The store has an obligation not to sell her a weapon based on that alone.

If the facts are as reported, then the gun store screwed up on that one.

But if the applicant checks "yes", and the background check comes back clean, thereby indicating that the positive response is "untrue", maybe that's a legal "out" for the gun store?

But I wouldn't hold the gun store responsible for her suicide - that was her own free choice and her own action. If she hadn't done it with the gun, she would have used some other method to accomplish it. So I don't see how the gun store sale would have changed anything.

[Zipp0 1]

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not counting the three day "cooling off" period, you would be correct!

unless you were to go to a gun show...

No cooling off period in PA.

GUN STORE GUY: 'There's a five day waiting period on the handgun.'

HOMER: 'Five days?' But I'm angry NOW!!!'

GUN STORE GUY: 'Yeah, well, that's the law.'

HOMER (grumpy): 'I'd kill you if I had my gun...'

GUN STORE GUY: Yeah, well, you don't.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[normiss 891]

Homer and his guns have always amused me greatly.

"This is the end that you point at the thing you want to die!"

[Zipp0 1]

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Homer and his guns have always amused me greatly.

"This is the end that you point at the thing you want to die!"

Me too.

"When I held that gun in my hand, I felt a surge of power ... like God must feel when he's holding a gun."

Homer: Lisa, if I didn't have this gun, the king of England could walk right in here and start pushing you around.
[Homer starts pushing Lisa around]
Homer: D'you want that? Huh? Do ya?
Lisa: No...


"This gun has cost me everything, my family, my friends...everything, except my precious, precious gun."

"I don't have to be careful, I've got a gun!"


Homer: "A gun is not a weapon, Marge. It’s a tool. Like a butcher’s knife, a harpoon, or... an alligator. You just have to have one."

Homer: "I feel that if a gun is good enough to protect something as important as a bar, then it’s good enough to protect my family."

Marge: It's 11 o'clock at night! Where do you think you're going?
Bart: Downtown.
Lisa: We're going to get seats for the Itchy & Scratchy parade.
Marge: I won't have my children sitting alone on a cold, dangerous street all night. Homer, you go too. Homer: Aw, why can't they just take the gun?

"But Marge, I swear to you, I never thought you'd find out!"
--Homer, trying to justify keeping his gun.

At Homers NRA meeting:
"So this is how, with a few minor adjustments, you turn a regular gun into five guns."

At the local gun store, Homer talks with the man behind the counter.
Homer: I'd like to buy your deadliest gun, please.
Gun Shop Owner: Aisle six, next to the sympathy cards.


Homer to Marge: “You come with me to an N.R.A. meeting, and if you
still don't think guns are great...we can argue some more.”

In another episode the Simpsons are on a wagon train in the Old West:
Homer: [singing] Cleaning my gun with the safety off, safety off, safety off, cleaning my gun with the...
[gun goes off, killing a buffalo]
Lisa: Dad, you just killed a poor, defenseless buffalo!
Homer: A poor, *delicious* buffalo. He'll be enough food for the whole wagon train.
[shoots another buffalo]
Lisa: Why did you shoot that one?
Homer: Dessert.

Homer thinking about food again:
Snake: I'm gonna win you back, even if it means I got to pistol whip this dude
Snake: all night.
Homer: [scared] Pistol whip?
[imagines himself eating whipped cream from a pistol]
Homer: Hmm, pistol whip...

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Darius11 12]

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But I wouldn't hold the gun store responsible for her suicide - that was her own free choice and her own action. If she hadn't done it with the gun, she would have used some other method to accomplish it. So I don't see how the gun store sale would have changed anything.

thats what i was going to say.

Do we blame rope companies when people hang themselves? No

I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain

[kelpdiver 2]

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But I wouldn't hold the gun store responsible for her suicide - that was her own free choice and her own action. If she hadn't done it with the gun, she would have used some other method to accomplish it. So I don't see how the gun store sale would have changed anything.

Aye. It appears that the employee was a bit sloppy on the details, but you have a person that had made 3 attempts to purchase and was quite determined to kill herself. Two separate concerns.

Strange that she would answer yes to the question.

[normiss 891]

Especially given the affirmation at the bottom of the form where one signs swearing to telling the truth and accuracy of information submitted in the form....
she was just being honest!
Don't you realize it is the responsibility of society and government to protect us from ourselves???

[Nightingale 0]

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Because she checked the box YES that says "Have you ever been declared mentally defective?" The store has an obligation not to sell her a weapon based on that alone.

Not necessarily. Depends on the law of the state, because the box said "have you ever been found mentally defective or committed to a mental institution." she may have been obligated to write "yes" without actually being disqualified. I looked up the Florida law, and it says that the law requires a judicial finding of "mentally defective" or an involuntary commitment.

People are admitted to institutions for all kinds of reasons that wouldn't disqualify them from a gun purchase, and voluntary commitments don't count. For example, if someone is committed to an institution for anorexia as a teenager, should that prevent them from buying a gun twenty years later?

Provided the newspaper quoted the question on the form correctly, some people could be required to answer "yes" but still be legally eligible to purchase.

[Zipp0 1]

Maybe they need 2 seperate questions?

And to me 'committed' tends to mean non-voluntary. Checking yourself in does not involve a legal obligation to go into the institution.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Nightingale 0]

But someone underage could be committed involuntarily by parents, not the courts.

[normiss 891]

something I learned in the ER last week;
in Florida, you can voluntarily Baker Act yourself
adults and minors.

[Zipp0 1]

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But someone underage could be committed involuntarily by parents, not the courts.

Are you sure about that? I think a doctor would have to do that, and unless the child agrees, thae parent's would not be privy to the diagnosis.

My wife would know for sure..... (she's in the psych field, not a mental patient)

Anyway, to me, if someone says they were found mentally defective, you don't hand them a pistol. That's just freaking common sense!

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[normiss 891]

FL Baker Act



gotta follow the checklist!

[Nightingale 0]

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Quote

But someone underage could be committed involuntarily by parents, not the courts.

Are you sure about that? I think a doctor would have to do that, and unless the child agrees, thae parent's would not be privy to the diagnosis.

No, parents are usually privy to a child's medical records with certain exceptions. In Parham v. JR (US Supreme Court, 1979), the court held that parents could commit a child against the child's will, because the interest of the parent to make sure the child gets treatment is stronger than the child's liberty and privacy interests. The case was still valid as of 2004, but I don't have a way to check it further right now. However, many states view a commitment by a parent to be "voluntary" even if it's against the child's will.

[kallend 2,146]

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If the check came back clean from the state why are they suiung thegun store and not the state?

Anyone can sue for pretty much anything. Whether or not the suit has any merit is another matter altogether.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[BeteNoire 0]

Nothing is perfect.