Canada: Gun Registration

[JohnRich 4]

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Many laws are not made to deter crime. They are made so that law enforcement and the courts can deal with the criminals after the fact. Criminals don't obey laws. That's why they are called criminals.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

[Andy9o8 3]

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Many laws are not made to deter crime. They are made so that law enforcement and the courts can deal with the criminals after the fact. Criminals don't obey laws. That's why they are called criminals.

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

Agreed - which is why crime prevention is not the sole legitimate public policy consideration for gun registration - crime-solving and crime-prosecution are, too. (It's also why I dodn't vote in the poll, because there were not enough choices to fit the issue.)

It's reasonable to review hard data on whether gun registration does or does not help deter crime. Similarly, it's also reasonable to review the data on whether registration does or does not aid law enforcement in solving and prosecuting crimes. That will help everyone - including a lot of people who don't have passionate feelings one way or the other about guns (they do exist) - to analyze the public policy considerations for themselves as responsible citizens.

[JohnRich 4]

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Agreed - which is why crime prevention is not the sole legitimate public policy consideration for gun registration - crime-solving and crime-prosecution are, too.

But therein lies a problem with that kind of law. You're requiring everyone who owns a gun to do something, and if they don't, they get put in jail. And that's despite the fact that they haven't done anything to harm or threaten anyone with their gun - they simply failed to fill out some paperwork.

That kind of law is a bad law because it punishes people who have committed no crime against their fellow man. Making thousands of laws which punish people for technical paperwork violations are a bad idea. Because they usually ensnare the honest people who haven't actually done anything wrong, and the criminals just ignore them anyway.

The only laws you need are the ones that say that if you hurt or threaten someone, or steal or damage their property, then you're going to jail. Then when that happens, regardless of whether it's with a gun, a knife or a fist, it should be enforced.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Bill C-391 (if it is allowed to pass), will stop treating law abiding firearms owners like criminals.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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Take your bullshit spin doctor tactics somewhere else because you are full of it.

I asked you expound on something you posted.

Typical, post bullshit and when asked start calling names. If you don't understand what you read and hear, don't just repeat it, ask questions.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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The only laws you need are the ones that say that if you hurt or threaten someone, or steal or damage their property, then you're going to jail. Then when that happens, regardless of whether it's with a gun, a knife or a fist, it should be enforced.

Then what about building codes? Health and Saftey laws? There are tons of laws aimed purely at prevention of pain and suffering. Do you believe all those laws should be taken off the books?

[CanuckInUSA 0]

What do criminals have to do with Bill C-391? Nothing ...

You don't even know the firearm laws in this country. Come back once you have educated yourself as to what is what. Until then I call your spin doctor techniques here how I seem them. I call them as nothing but fucking bullshit.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[JohnRich 4]

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The only laws you need are the ones that say that if you hurt or threaten someone, or steal or damage their property, then you're going to jail. Then when that happens, regardless of whether it's with a gun, a knife or a fist, it should be enforced.

Then what about building codes? Health and Saftey laws? There are tons of laws aimed purely at prevention of pain and suffering. Do you believe all those laws should be taken off the books?

Registering a gun does NOTHING to ensure that the gun will be always be safe.
Building a structure to code DOES ensure that the building will be safe.
Therefore, the latter is a good idea, and the former is worthless.

Your analogy is not equal.

Would registering a building with the government ensure that it would never catch on fire? Nope.
Would it ensure that the building was never used for criminal purposes? Nope.

Registration is about taxes, not safety. Safety is just the excuse to collect the tax.
And it's about punishing people who dare to be politically incorrect, and that's not what I want my government doing.

[SkyDekker 1,465]

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What do criminals have to do with Bill C-391? Nothing ...

Why are you asking me? You wrote the sentence....go read your own post if you can't remember what you wrote, it's all right there.

It's like arguing with a meth head.......

[SkyDekker 1,465]

If you look at the sentence I quoted, you will see I was not talking about gun registration. In the quoted section you stated you only need laws that take effect after you hurt some one etc.

I mentioned that there are many laws that are aimed solely at prevention and as such do not fall under the laws you brought forward as the only ones necessary. hence, I asked if you thought that those laws, aimed at prevention, needed to be taken off the books as well.

Do you think you can answer now?

[Andy9o8 3]

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Registering a gun does NOTHING to ensure that the gun will be always be safe.

Possibly so, especially if we keep the qualifier "always" in that sentence. Might it sometimes increase the likelihood that the (lawful) gun owner will keep the gun in a safe manner - and/or that it will deter re-sale of the gun to a criminal (either directly or thru a straw party)? Well, that's an issue on which we need to collect, see and analyze hard data.

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Registration is about taxes, not safety. Safety is just the excuse to collect the tax.

Again, maybe, maybe not. Does registration promote safety, even if indirectly, by deterring/reducing transfers to criminals? Maybe; let's look at hard data.

It may also be about collecting taxes. We quiche-eaters who like universal health care, and realize that our huge military budget isn't likely to be reduced any time soon to pay for it, don't necessarily mind that. Group X has their respective priorities for a piece of the pie; Group Y has their competing ones.

Also again, registration is touted as a means to help solve crimes and win prosecutions of offenders. Again, a good subject on which to analyze hard data.

And I'll acknowledge this: if the govt decides to confiscate guns, is it likely they'd use the registration database to do so? I'd think they would.

[pbwing 0]

sniff...

This is a proud moment.

Now Canada has it's own version of kallend vs mnealtx.

An occassion worth celebrating!!!

[Andy9o8 3]

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sniff... This is a proud moment. Now Canada has it's own version of kallend vs mnealtx. An occassion worth celebrating!!!

Not really. Two Canadians fighting? Pfft.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

How many times must this be repeated.

I support the passage of Bill C-391. Nothing more, nothing less.

If people do not know what is in Bill C-391, I highly recommend they educate themselves on what it is and what it is not. If people are not familiar with the various firearms rules and regulations in this country. I also highly recommend they educate themselves on the process people must go through in order to obtain a legal firearm and educate themselves on the rules and regulations concerning what firearms they are allowed to own, how those firearms must be stored and how they can be transported from point A to point B.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over