waltappel 1 #51 July 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteI think it's a pretty good question. It's not a matter of asking them to speak more quietly because they already are speaking quietly. Is it unreasonable for them to be expected to put boundaries on what is intended to be a private conversation? That is a very different scenario to what sparked off this debate, which was differing opinions expressed in a public forum - not a private conversation. Ok, let's put it in the context of this forum. If I say something like, "Ya' know, if I never see a Muslim again, I'll be quite happy." Does that justify a PA? Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,565 #52 July 20, 2007 Aside from forum rules, I think the charge of bigot would be entirely appropriate, accurate and not at all intolerant.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #53 July 20, 2007 Walt, Nice job on maintaining your civility on this topic. The contradiction I see has to do with people who put themselves out there as open, accepting, non-judgemental, tolerant progressives, but who feel completely justified in attacking those who express opinions dramatically different from their own. IOW There are quite a few "liberals" who are raging bigots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #54 July 20, 2007 QuoteWalt, Nice job on maintaining your civility on this topic. The contradiction I see has to do with people who put themselves out there as open, accepting, non-judgemental, tolerant progressives, but who feel completely justified in attacking those who express opinions dramatically different from their own. IOW There are quite a few "liberals" who are raging bigots. Nicely put. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,555 #55 July 20, 2007 It almost sounds as though in talking about someone it's OK to call them something (could that be considered to be "behind their back?") that would be considered offensive if spoken to them. I'm thinking it's better for each of us to strive to find better ways to express ourselves in public and in private. Both activities are legal, but neither is more polite than the other. Human nature being what it is, as soon as people get together to talk -- in private -- about honkies, infidels, jigaboos, whatever -- eventually one of them has a decent of chance of deciding to "do something about it." There's a difference between legal and polite. It's legal to call someone a motherfucking nigger. It's also way impolite, and possibly stupid. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #56 July 20, 2007 QuoteIt's no better or worse than its siblings, christianity and judaism. Blues, Dave Ah yes, the three Abrahamic faiths. Responsible for more death, oppression, and useless guilt than any other human invention. The burden of our large frontal lobes and the desire to attach meanings when there aren't any is the price we pay for sentience. Life is full of trade-offs." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #57 July 20, 2007 Quote Quote It's no better or worse than its siblings, christianity and judaism. Blues, Dave Ah yes, the three Abrahamic faiths. Responsible for more death, oppression, and useless guilt than any other human invention. More than Communism? Or the Third Reich? I did not know that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,565 #58 July 20, 2007 Quote Quote Quote It's no better or worse than its siblings, christianity and judaism. Blues, Dave Ah yes, the three Abrahamic faiths. Responsible for more death, oppression, and useless guilt than any other human invention. More than Communism? Or the Third Reich? I did not know that. Communism has had about 90 years, the Third Reich had less than 15. Christianity and the semitic faiths have been operating for just a tiiiiiiiny bit longer than that. Still shocked?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #59 July 20, 2007 You seem to be very tolerant of different views I agree with you about words or cartoons or what ever, however I also agree with Wendy about how it can be viewed as rude. But here is my question. What about a group of people who have a different view lets say a whole country that has a different way of living their life, different customs, and a different way of doing things. Should we respect there right to live the way they want even if it is not are way? Should we respect their right to practice laws that they as a country have chosen to follow for what they view to be the good of their society?I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #60 July 20, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Ah yes, the three Abrahamic faiths. Responsible for more death, oppression, and useless guilt than any other human invention. More than Communism? Or the Third Reich? I did not know that. Communism has had about 90 years, the Third Reich had less than 15. Christianity and the semitic faiths have been operating for just a tiiiiiiiny bit longer than that. Still shocked? Perhaps some death totals could shed some light on it. How about a figure of 94 million deaths for Communism? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #61 July 20, 2007 Quote Quote HAHAHAHA god we never run out of stupid people do we? the sad part is we put them on the radio which means there are people out there who actually believe his crap. Some should have just been swallowed. You have to admit Salman Rushdie had a point though. Or are you claiming he is just another stupid person who doesn't understand Islam? No he is another author jumping on the bandwagon to make money. The majority of the western public specially in the US are great for feeding line and lines of bull shit too. as long as it fits with there narrow view you will have a top seller. Now make a book about how many great things Muslims have done and it won’t sell a copy. Because how could a crazy muslim do something good Oh wait 24 is on I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #62 July 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteHAHAHAHA god we never run out of stupid people do we? the sad part is we put them on the radio which means there are people out there who actually believe his crap. Some should have just been swallowed. Let's see, a religion comprised of about 1.4 Billion people, with a sliver of them causing mass chaos around the world, and the mass that is "moderate" does not speak up to condemn the extremists. It is a sort of endorsement via silence. While holding one's tongue has merits, it is a disservice to themselves, and it only adds to the deterioration of the bulk of the middle eastern region. That’s just points to how narrow your view has gotten. Let me ask you this. (My answer to all of these questions are yes by the way.) Does a country have the right to make its owns laws that it sees fit for the good of it’s society? Do a people have the right to follow their own customs? Do they have the right to protect what they view as sacred? As for causing mass chaos can you honestly say we the US have not done worst? We have 200-300K including the “contractors” we have just in Iraq. How many bases do we have in the Middle East? I think if you are looking at a group of people who have caused much chaos in the world. The US is number 1 by a huge distance.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #63 July 20, 2007 QuoteI think if you are looking at a group of people who have caused much chaos in the world. The US is number 1 by a huge distance. and let's not forget The Bee Gee's, the World Cup, and any gathering of people that think darts is a pretty neat game. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #64 July 20, 2007 QuoteYou seem to be very tolerant of different views I agree with you about words or cartoons or what ever, however I also agree with Wendy about how it can be viewed as rude. But here is my question. What about a group of people who have a different view lets say a whole country that has a different way of living their life, different customs, and a different way of doing things. Should we respect there right to live the way they want even if it is not are way? Should we respect their right to practice laws that they as a country have chosen to follow for what they view to be the good of their society? Just my opinion, but as long as the country is not some sort of threat, I'm ok with them living any freaky kind of way they want. That even includes their way of governing, be it a religious state and/or dictatorship. Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darius11 12 #65 July 20, 2007 QuoteQuoteYou seem to be very tolerant of different views I agree with you about words or cartoons or what ever, however I also agree with Wendy about how it can be viewed as rude. But here is my question. What about a group of people who have a different view lets say a whole country that has a different way of living their life, different customs, and a different way of doing things. Should we respect there right to live the way they want even if it is not are way? Should we respect their right to practice laws that they as a country have chosen to follow for what they view to be the good of their society? Just my opinion, but as long as the country is not some sort of threat, I'm ok with them living any freaky kind of way they want. That even includes their way of governing, be it a religious state and/or dictatorship. Walt agreed.I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not." - Kurt Cobain Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #66 July 20, 2007 Should any country or multi-national group insert themselves into situations where gross human rights abuses, like wholesale genocide, are taking place? Rwanda? Mogadishu? Bosnia? Sudan? Should a country's independent sovereignty trumph the global communities judgement as to what is clearly unacceptable? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waltappel 1 #67 July 20, 2007 QuoteShould any country or multi-national group insert themselves into situations where gross human rights abuses, like wholesale genocide, are taking place? Rwanda? Mogadishu? Bosnia? Sudan? Should a country's independent sovereignty trumph the global communities judgement as to what is clearly unacceptable? Mogadishu, Somalia. There's a fine case. What did we accomplish there that was worth the loss of life? Let's be realistic. I don't think anyone in this country really *wants* to see massive human rights abuses in other countries but on the other hand, do we really care? It doesn't bother our "leaders" to sell our country's future to China so that we can have cheap goods today. I've never heard China discussed as a champion of human rights. As for Rwanda, Bosnia, and Sudan, and any other place for that matter, how long are we willing to stay to keep order and what does it really accomplish? Walt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #68 July 20, 2007 My post was in response to: Quote Just my opinion, but as long as the country is not some sort of threat, I'm ok with them living any freaky kind of way they want. That even includes their way of governing, be it a religious state and/or dictatorship. I was trying to address the moral (for lack of a better word) aspect, setting aside the effectiveness aspect. The odds of something working shouldn't determine whether it's the right thing to do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
