rehmwa 2 #51 July 19, 2007 Quote To me though, the utilisation of a pledge that has been shown to be broken so consistently has no real educational/health/social benefit....... The study that Nightingale referenced seemed to draw some fairly negative conclusions. The study Nightengale referenced showed the kiddies "broke" the pledge years later..... Then used that to say it was a 'failure'.....I personally think a 'pledge' is hokey, but some successful parents use that kind of thing just fine, I think we should really focus on the character of the kid in general. But that argument that a pledge that "only" lasted a few years is a failed method is nuts. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #52 July 19, 2007 Quote Uh, dude? None of that was directed at you and you know it. Wow. An assumption, based on a lie. Good play. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,611 #53 July 19, 2007 Quote Quote Uh, dude? None of that was directed at you and you know it. Wow. An assumption, based on a lie. Good play. Wow, a dodge from having to address anything of substance. Colour me purple and call me Doris, I'm shocked I tell you.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #54 July 19, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Uh, dude? None of that was directed at you and you know it. Wow. An assumption, based on a lie. Good play. Wow, a dodge from having to address anything of substance. Colour me purple and call me Doris, I'm shocked I tell you. I notice you keep misrepresenting your role in all this. Feigning the high road. LOL Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #55 July 19, 2007 I think the criticism wasn't so much that the pledge was broken and was therefore useless but that when it was broken the kids were significantly less likely to protect themselves from pregnancy/std's. So in spite of any delay which may have been achieved, the lack of further education and a villifying of condoms etc rendered it ineffective for preventing what teaching abstinence set out to achieve in the first place. I guess my problem with abstinence only education is that its all or nothing. A large portion if not most of the kids who are taught it will fail to live by it and those kids, in the majority of cases have not been taught how to behave responisbly in that event. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #56 July 19, 2007 Quote my problem with abstinence only education is abstinence "only"? abstinence shouldn't be a choice based on 'abstinence only' teaching. It should be the best choice from the parents teaching the kids all about real life. I don't think the average parent is as polarized as both sides want everyone to think (and then to argue the simplistic views). That's just each camp putting out straw men arguments. such as: 1 - Teach abstinence, and then kids won't recognize a condom (the poll) later or 2 - "You're right, Kris. Give em all a big 'ol box of condoms and a copy of "sutra" at age 9 and leave the house unlocked. Parents shouldn't even try to do what they think is right. The government will raise 'em all. " that second one really pissed me off. what the hell is wrong with that guy? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,611 #57 July 19, 2007 Quote Quote Quote Quote Uh, dude? None of that was directed at you and you know it. Wow. An assumption, based on a lie. Good play. Wow, a dodge from having to address anything of substance. Colour me purple and call me Doris, I'm shocked I tell you. I notice you keep misrepresenting your role in all this. Feigning the high road. LOL I'm not feigning anything. Look through that thread and show me where I ever insulted you, or attempted to insinuate that you were some kind of gullible moron.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #58 July 19, 2007 I agree 100% and thats what it comes down to. Often the choice is not made under those circumstances. Again, the study Nightingale cited seems to demonstrate that there are many kids for whom abstinence programs coupled with a lack of knowlegde of alternantives or indeed false information, ends in disaster. There are a lot of those kids out there and we need to think about informing them. I'm well aware that the average parent probably isn't as polarised as people think, but the number of kids who are falling through the cracks suggest that many of them (parents) are over reliant abstinence programs or kids finding out on their own. Parental involvement is key. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #59 July 19, 2007 Quotewe need to think about informing them........Parental involvement is key. interesting combination of comments I'd say that unless the parent is criminally screwing up (and this doesn't apply), then it's not my business how they choose to raise their kids. Even if I think they are dead wrong. The busy body route is a bad path to get on (right or left wing biased). ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #60 July 19, 2007 Well, we do need to inform those kids somehow. Parental involvement doesn't necessarily mean that the kids' only source of information about sex and sexuality be their parents. It means that the parents need to be satisfied one way or another that their child is armed with the information required to protect themselves. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
