SpeedRacer 1 #1 July 16, 2007 What's weird is reading the Have Your Say bit on the BBC website http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&threadID=6807&edition=2&ttl=20070716204611&#paginator Among many Brits there seems to be a tremendous amount of hostility towards ANY item that might have religious overtones, no matter how small. (it might harm the student vampires, after all.) Speed Racer -------------------------------------------------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #2 July 16, 2007 What you have to bear in mind is that the sort of folks that write to those web sites dont have much of a life...... Oh the irony (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #3 July 16, 2007 Will they allow the "I'm a human toilet bukakke addict" ring? -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #4 July 16, 2007 QuoteWill they allow the "I'm a human toilet bukakke addict" ring? Only if you want to lead a troop of boy-scouts, otherwise you'll be just fine with your ring. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #5 July 16, 2007 I don't think the school wanted her to remove the ring because of it percieved religious significance. They wanted it removed becase under their dress code rings (I presume of any sort) are banned. Although I'll agree there was a good deal of anti-religious sentiment among the posters on that board. As for my opinion of it: 1. If she and her parents have a problem with the dress code then she should go elsewhere. 2. Convincing a 14 or 15 year old to wear a ring as some kind of promise not to have sex till marriage is a meaningless gesture that will mean little or nothing to that kid whe he/she is 17 or 18. The ones who abstain from sex are the ones who probably would have done so anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,611 #6 July 16, 2007 Quote2. Convincing a 14 or 15 year old to wear a ring as some kind of promise not to have sex till marriage is a meaningless gesture that will mean little or nothing to that kid whe he/she is 17 or 18. The ones who abstain from sex are the ones who probably would have done so anyway. Or just do anal instead.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #7 July 17, 2007 Quote 2. Convincing a 14 or 15 year old to wear a ring as some kind of promise not to have sex till marriage is a meaningless gesture that will mean little or nothing to that kid whe he/she is 17 or 18. The ones who abstain from sex are the ones who probably would have done so anyway. Nonsense, this is about one kid at a time. For this particular girl, having that symbol with her to shore up her self image and personal choices is huge. And if it helps her get from 14 to 18 without making a bad decision, why is it that a wasted effort? The same guys that belittle this kind of thing spend hours talking about how meaningful their latest tattoo is to them and how much 'this design' represents some nonsense in their life . How is that different? Other than it comes from a conservative rather than latest trend perspective. Putting all kids in a bucket like that is meaningless. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ian84 0 #8 July 17, 2007 You're right, my statement was a bit of a blanket. No doubt there are kids with genuinely held beliefs on abstinence and for those kids, if a ring or anything else helps shore up those beleifs then thats great. I just get the impression that many kids take on this "promise" in an effort to appease/please/impress their parents. None the less my use of the word "meainingless" was a poor choice. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,611 #9 July 17, 2007 Quote The same guys that belittle this kind of thing spend hours talking about how meaningful their latest tattoo is to them and how much 'this design' represents some nonsense in their life Careful with that bucket there dude!Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 July 17, 2007 Quote Quote The same guys that belittle this kind of thing spend hours talking about how meaningful their latest tattoo is to them and how much 'this design' represents some nonsense in their life Careful with that bucket there dude! (sadly, Ian responded with class and not a thin skin. I hope he sticks around.) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #11 July 17, 2007 QuoteI just get the impression that many kids take on this "promise" in an effort to appease/please/impress their parents. As a parent, that's fine if it helps the kid learn what's really important. Where else should kids learn their morals? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #12 July 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteI just get the impression that many kids take on this "promise" in an effort to appease/please/impress their parents. As a parent, that's fine if it helps the kid learn what's really important. Where else should kids learn their morals? Surveys say that most people who make abstinence pledges break them a few years later. I think what he's saying is that the kids are making an empty promise to satisfy their parents rather than from any personal desire to keep their word. It's just one of those things that most kids say to keep their parents happy and off their back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #13 July 17, 2007 Quote Surveys say that most people who make abstinence pledges break them a few years later. OH NO!!! What a tragedy.I didn't miss that. But you are missing my point. Here: rephrase your comment "Survey say that most children who make abstinence pledges keep them for a few years" It's still a win. It's just one of those things that parents get their kids to agree to keep them safe for a little while longer, to keep them disease free, not pregnant, and emotionally undamaged until they are REALLY ready for healthy physical relationships. They are usually CHILDREN, like 14 or 15, and if it works, that's GREAT. No matter how lazy parents are, that age is still immature and not ready, if this gets them to 18 or so. Fantastic - then they are old enough to have to deal with it themselves, not while under the care of a parent. If it gets them to marriage, great, if that's what they choose. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #14 July 17, 2007 You sure have a Pur_ity ring (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #15 July 17, 2007 QuoteQuoteQuoteI just get the impression that many kids take on this "promise" in an effort to appease/please/impress their parents. As a parent, that's fine if it helps the kid learn what's really important. Where else should kids learn their morals? Surveys say that most people who make abstinence pledges break them a few years later. One study showed pledgers were 3.5 times more likely to remain virgins by age 25 than those who did not pledge. I don't think any of the studies have shown causality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #16 July 17, 2007 A lot of the kids that are asked to make those pledges do so in junior high, as pre-teens, so I'd hope they'd abstain for at least a few more years (I think the average age is 16). Also "pledgers were significantly less likely to use a condom during first sex" -Yale Abstinence Pledge Study, 2005 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #17 July 17, 2007 QuoteA lot of the kids that are asked to make those pledges do so in junior high, as pre-teens, so I'd hope they'd abstain for at least a few more years (I think the average age is 16). Also "pledgers were significantly less likely to use a condom during first sex" -Yale Abstinence Pledge Study, 2005 You're right, Kris. Give em all a big 'ol box of condoms and a copy of "sutra" at age 9 and leave the house unlocked. Parents shouldn't even try to do what they think is right. The government will raise 'em all. Edit: I don't care about the 'average'. I care about my kid, my nieces and nephews, some of the neighborhood kids, etc. They aren't averages. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #18 July 17, 2007 Quote Surveys say that most people who make abstinence pledges break them a few years later. One study showed pledgers were 3.5 times more likely to remain virgins by age 25 than those who did not pledge... Really? I'd love to see that study (and specifically, who funded it). All my research says that those things don't work. "Researchers from Columbia University interviewed a group of 12- to 18-year-olds when they first took the pledge and again six years later. They found that 88 percent of teenagers who had pledged virginity until marriage ended up having premarital sex and that their rates of STD were identical to those of teenagers who had not signed the pledge. Most troubling of all, the Columbia study found that virginity pledgers were less likely to use condoms, less likely to seek out medical care for an STD and less likely even to know they'd contracted one. They proved more irresponsible than kids who took no pledge at all." -Tribune Media Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Nightingale 0 #19 July 17, 2007 Quote You're right, Kris. Give em all a big 'ol box of condoms and a copy of "sutra" at age 9 and leave the house unlocked. Parents shouldn't even try to do what they think is right. The government will raise 'em all. Edit: I don't care about the 'average'. I care about my kid, my nieces and nephews, some of the neighborhood kids, etc. They aren't averages. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the purity pledge isn't the right way to go about educating kids about sex and making sure they wait until they're responsible and ready. Too many parents and programs just let the kid pledge and then are done with it. There's no follow-up, no extended education or conversation, and no information about how to prevent pregnancy and STDs should they choose to have sex. Parents hear "I promise I won't have sex..." and think that's the end of it. They forget that teenagers are constantly learning and reevaluating, and they need to continue to provide guidance and information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JackC 0 #20 July 17, 2007 I don't see what all the fuss is about. You don't need no stinkin' ring thing to make a pledge. My guess is the sparkly thing is more important to this girl than whatever it is meant to represent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #21 July 17, 2007 QuoteParents hear "I promise I won't have sex..." and think that's the end of it......They forget that teenagers are constantly learning and reevaluating, Which parents? I doubt that of any parents I know. I'd think any reminder tool, like a pledge or whatever else might work is a great way to daily reinforce all this other stuff you mention. Maybe, just maybe, this girl (or any other girl or boy) make a pledge as a result of all the good education and upbringing from her parents - and in respect for their boyfriends and girlfriends too. Maybe the parents aren't hicks or welfare moms that just tried a lazy way to get a temporary promise. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #22 July 17, 2007 QuoteI don't see what all the fuss is about. You don't need no stinkin' ring thing to make a pledge. My guess is the sparkly thing is more important to this girl than whatever it is meant to represent. My guess, is we have no idea whether it meant something or not. But these comments all assume the worst of this individual and her parents, when we could be assuming higher motives. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Zipp0 1 #23 July 17, 2007 I didn't need one of these stupid rings. For me it was very, very simple - nobody wanted to have sex with me!It sucked at the time, but in retrospect it was nice to avoid pregnancies and STD's. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rehmwa 2 #24 July 17, 2007 Quote I didn't need one of these stupid rings. For me it was very, very simple - nobody wanted to have sex with me!It sucked at the time, but in retrospect it was nice to avoid pregnancies and STD's. Great, now my neighbors are wondering what's so funny. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites wmw999 2,602 #25 July 17, 2007 t 15, my son wore a mohawk and a "straightedge" T-shirt. They helped to define his image; a punk who didn't drink or do drugs. Wearing that shirt meant that the kids who DID drink and do drugs were a little less likely to approach him as one of their own. He eventually drank, I don't know about the drugs (he's 23 now and doing really well), and quit wearing a mohawk. Kids do change. But, well, maybe by waiting that extra time, he had a chance to see why driving drunk was a bad idea firsthand (a good friend was killed). It could be that the promise ring was HER idea. Kids love redefining themselves. Hopefully she'll continue to think about values as well as IPODs. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 1 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Nightingale 0 #16 July 17, 2007 A lot of the kids that are asked to make those pledges do so in junior high, as pre-teens, so I'd hope they'd abstain for at least a few more years (I think the average age is 16). Also "pledgers were significantly less likely to use a condom during first sex" -Yale Abstinence Pledge Study, 2005 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #17 July 17, 2007 QuoteA lot of the kids that are asked to make those pledges do so in junior high, as pre-teens, so I'd hope they'd abstain for at least a few more years (I think the average age is 16). Also "pledgers were significantly less likely to use a condom during first sex" -Yale Abstinence Pledge Study, 2005 You're right, Kris. Give em all a big 'ol box of condoms and a copy of "sutra" at age 9 and leave the house unlocked. Parents shouldn't even try to do what they think is right. The government will raise 'em all. Edit: I don't care about the 'average'. I care about my kid, my nieces and nephews, some of the neighborhood kids, etc. They aren't averages. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #18 July 17, 2007 Quote Surveys say that most people who make abstinence pledges break them a few years later. One study showed pledgers were 3.5 times more likely to remain virgins by age 25 than those who did not pledge... Really? I'd love to see that study (and specifically, who funded it). All my research says that those things don't work. "Researchers from Columbia University interviewed a group of 12- to 18-year-olds when they first took the pledge and again six years later. They found that 88 percent of teenagers who had pledged virginity until marriage ended up having premarital sex and that their rates of STD were identical to those of teenagers who had not signed the pledge. Most troubling of all, the Columbia study found that virginity pledgers were less likely to use condoms, less likely to seek out medical care for an STD and less likely even to know they'd contracted one. They proved more irresponsible than kids who took no pledge at all." -Tribune Media Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nightingale 0 #19 July 17, 2007 Quote You're right, Kris. Give em all a big 'ol box of condoms and a copy of "sutra" at age 9 and leave the house unlocked. Parents shouldn't even try to do what they think is right. The government will raise 'em all. Edit: I don't care about the 'average'. I care about my kid, my nieces and nephews, some of the neighborhood kids, etc. They aren't averages. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the purity pledge isn't the right way to go about educating kids about sex and making sure they wait until they're responsible and ready. Too many parents and programs just let the kid pledge and then are done with it. There's no follow-up, no extended education or conversation, and no information about how to prevent pregnancy and STDs should they choose to have sex. Parents hear "I promise I won't have sex..." and think that's the end of it. They forget that teenagers are constantly learning and reevaluating, and they need to continue to provide guidance and information. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JackC 0 #20 July 17, 2007 I don't see what all the fuss is about. You don't need no stinkin' ring thing to make a pledge. My guess is the sparkly thing is more important to this girl than whatever it is meant to represent. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #21 July 17, 2007 QuoteParents hear "I promise I won't have sex..." and think that's the end of it......They forget that teenagers are constantly learning and reevaluating, Which parents? I doubt that of any parents I know. I'd think any reminder tool, like a pledge or whatever else might work is a great way to daily reinforce all this other stuff you mention. Maybe, just maybe, this girl (or any other girl or boy) make a pledge as a result of all the good education and upbringing from her parents - and in respect for their boyfriends and girlfriends too. Maybe the parents aren't hicks or welfare moms that just tried a lazy way to get a temporary promise. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #22 July 17, 2007 QuoteI don't see what all the fuss is about. You don't need no stinkin' ring thing to make a pledge. My guess is the sparkly thing is more important to this girl than whatever it is meant to represent. My guess, is we have no idea whether it meant something or not. But these comments all assume the worst of this individual and her parents, when we could be assuming higher motives. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #23 July 17, 2007 I didn't need one of these stupid rings. For me it was very, very simple - nobody wanted to have sex with me!It sucked at the time, but in retrospect it was nice to avoid pregnancies and STD's. -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #24 July 17, 2007 Quote I didn't need one of these stupid rings. For me it was very, very simple - nobody wanted to have sex with me!It sucked at the time, but in retrospect it was nice to avoid pregnancies and STD's. Great, now my neighbors are wondering what's so funny. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,602 #25 July 17, 2007 t 15, my son wore a mohawk and a "straightedge" T-shirt. They helped to define his image; a punk who didn't drink or do drugs. Wearing that shirt meant that the kids who DID drink and do drugs were a little less likely to approach him as one of their own. He eventually drank, I don't know about the drugs (he's 23 now and doing really well), and quit wearing a mohawk. Kids do change. But, well, maybe by waiting that extra time, he had a chance to see why driving drunk was a bad idea firsthand (a good friend was killed). It could be that the promise ring was HER idea. Kids love redefining themselves. Hopefully she'll continue to think about values as well as IPODs. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
