Roman Catholic Church only true church, says Vatican

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

judging someone else and proclaiming they are going to hell is considered a grave sin... they have put themselves on the path to hell.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm confused.

You say that like it's unusual in SC.

Let me re-phrase. In the Catholic faith, it is a grave sin to judge anyone and proclaim they are going to hell. In our faith, a grave sin is punishable by eternity in hell if it is not confessed and reperation is made. You also have to have the determination to not commit that sin again. We believe that it is our own sins we should concern ourselves with as we never will know the culpability of another person's sins. Judgment is left to God alone. Where we split from many Protestant religions is that we never say the only way to be saved is through Jesus Christ. We recognize that many people go through life never knowing about Jesus Christ through no fault of their own. We believe God the Father knows every heart and knows every soul's culpability. In other words, you can't fool Him.

Now, this is my faith. I am not expecting or demanding anyone else practise it.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[jakee 1,596]

But you're still telling me who god is and is not going to judge.

Better nip down to the confessional again.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[tbrown 26]

Quote

Don't you know.. all you heathens that are not Cathaholics... are goin right to hell...no purgatory for you...

When I was in the 1st grade at a Catholic school, we were talking about Christmas carols and poor Joyce Williams had the misfortune to mention "Away In a Manger" (always one of my favorites). Whereupon Sister Mary Anunciata went out of her mind and started shrieking all red faced that we would never ever sing that song because Martin Luther had written it and even now as we spoke he was burning in eternal hellfire. Cool, huh ? Especially when you're just six years old ? Poor Sister Mary A had a nervous breakdown a year or two later. I couldn't tell you why, but even as a little kid I thought she looked young underneath the enormous habit she wore.

This is just one more reason I'm sad that Deuce is gone, because he was able to give thoughtful answers about his religion of choice, which was the Catholic Church. Me, I'm a recovered ex-Catholic, nominal Episcopalian for over twenty years now, so I guess Joseph Ratzinger, aka Joey the Rat, aka Pope Benedict (the only Pope to ever man an anti aircraft gun defending the Dachau concentration camp) has a special pit of charcoal waiting just for me, the wife and kids. See you all there, hope someone brings the beer, we're going to need it !

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

But you're still telling me who god is and is not going to judge.

Better nip down to the confessional again.

No, I do believe you did not comprehend what I wrote. I said the exact opposite. It is Catholic teaching to not judge anyone. We are to look to our own consciences, no one elses.

I've been a practising Catholic my entire life. Why would you think that I would lie to you?

To tbrown: Sister Mary was not following Catholic teaching when she claimed so and so were burning in hell. I cannot judge Sister Mary's culpability there, I can just say that that action is wrong according to our faith.

I had many conversations about Catholicism with my good friend Deuce, whom I miss terribly. We were very much on the same page. I forget the exact quote he said, but it went something like this; referring to his daughters 1st Communion: "I love my church people as much as I love my vegan lesbian friends." I know I'm not quoting it exactly, but the message is there...a message that I shared with him.

I too went to Catholic school and had some 'nutty nuns'. I have just as many stories. Somehow though, I was able to look past the individual and see what was the truth. I credit my parents and most likely a special Grace from God for that.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[jakee 1,596]

Quote

No, I do believe you did not comprehend what I wrote. I said the exact opposite. It is Catholic teaching to not judge anyone. We are to look to our own consciences, no one elses.

Yes, you say the exact opposite and yet in the very same sentance you still pass judgement on people who judge.

On another note, the history of the Catholic church isn't exactly judgement free. Why follow an organisation manifestly incapable of adhering to its own teachings?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[beowulf 1]

Quote

What can any Hindu god do for your sin problem?

The same thing your god can do for the sin problem. Nothing neither exists.

[wmw999 2,589]

He's pretty clear to say that it's his belief. To me, that's a big difference from saying it's true. Just a thought. It's also his belief that it's not up to him to decide, and that surface is not enough to judge from.

I do know that the Catholics I know, by and large (well, the ones who don't describe themselves as "recovering Catholics" ) are a whole lot less judgmental about other people than some of the more fundamentalist Protestant folks.

It's kind of a "we think we have the right answer and here is where it can be found" vs. "we think we have the right answer, you have the wrong answer, and you really are going to regret not having listened to me"

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[squarecanopy 0]

Quote

I have one simple question. Why would anyone practise a particular faith if they did not believe it was the true faith? If you're practising a religion you don't believe in, you're an idiot.

Chris, I had not actually thought of it in just those terms, but you are absolutely right!

Just burning a hole in the sky.....

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

My one true church of jesus can beat up your one true church of jesus!

Once again, religion prefers to further itself instead of reaching out to it's people. The Roman Catholic Church is doing its best to make sure it becomes further irrelevant. In time the faithful will all realize you don't need a stodgy group of old men that don't live in reality....nor do you need a brick building.

Here is the other thing, never once did Jesus say that you needed 8 years of school to be able to lead a group of his followers in his memory. What matters is the faith, not the collar.....

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[Andrewwhyte 1]

Quote

My one true church of jesus can beat up your one true church of jesus!

Once again, religion prefers to further itself instead of reaching out to it's people. The Roman Catholic Church is doing its best to make sure it becomes further irrelevant. In time the faithful will all realize you don't need a stodgy group of old men that don't live in reality....nor do you need a brick building.

Here is the other thing, never once did Jesus say that you needed 8 years of school to be able to lead a group of his followers in his memory. What matters is the faith, not the collar.....

This is just the sort of heresy that has Martin Luther burning in hell now and forever.

[ChasingBlueSky 0]

Quote

Quote

My one true church of jesus can beat up your one true church of jesus!

Once again, religion prefers to further itself instead of reaching out to it's people. The Roman Catholic Church is doing its best to make sure it becomes further irrelevant. In time the faithful will all realize you don't need a stodgy group of old men that don't live in reality....nor do you need a brick building.

Here is the other thing, never once did Jesus say that you needed 8 years of school to be able to lead a group of his followers in his memory. What matters is the faith, not the collar.....

This is just the sort of heresy that has Martin Luther burning in hell now and forever.

Time for me to find some hammer and nails then I guess.

_________________________________________
you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me....
I WILL fly again.....

[BillyVance 35]

Without reading the whole thread, I'd just like to say what a big fucking crock of shit the Roman Catholic Church and Pope Benedict is.

When you're paying out something like $600 million to settle claims of sex abuse, you lose the right to call your religion the one true religion, as far as I'm concerned.

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[billvon 3,120]

>Why would anyone practise a particular faith if they did not believe it was the true faith?

Why would anyone live in the US (or Belgium, or Australia) if they did not believe it was the truest, best, most perfect country out there? Why would anyone marry someone if they thought a more perfect match might exist somewhere else?

"Good enough for me" is not the same as "the only possible truth."

[Muenkel 0]

jakee,

I don't believe you are going to understand what I am saying, no matter how I word it. Read Wendy's reply...she got it.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[Shotgun 1]

Quote

>Why would anyone practise a particular faith if they did not believe it was the true faith?

Why would anyone live in the US (or Belgium, or Australia) if they did not believe it was the truest, best, most perfect country out there?

It is not a necessity to practice any sort of faith, but it is a necessity to live somewhere, so the two don't really compare.

Quote

Why would anyone marry someone if they thought a more perfect match might exist somewhere else?

Now that's more comparable to the religion thing. It doesn't make much sense to marry someone if you think that a more perfect match exists somewhere else, just as it doesn't make much sense to practice Catholicism if you think that some other religion might be closer to the truth. Neither faith nor marriage are necessary, so why have either one if you don't believe you've picked the best?

[billvon 3,120]

>It doesn't make much sense to marry someone if you think that a
>more perfect match exists somewhere else . . .

?? There are 6.6 billion people in the world. The odds of finding the most perfect match are close to zero. If one were determined to meet even half the eligible people before deciding whom to marry, no one would ever get married. (Which, per your comparison above, is also OK, since you don't have to get married.)

Most people find someone they love and can spend the rest of their lives with - even if there might be someone in Norway who is a slightly better match in some ways. Indeed, I think that people who marry have to accept that there will be other people they will come to love, and that they are making a commitment to the person they are marrying - not someone else who they may later decide is just as good (or even better.)

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

>Why would anyone practise a particular faith if they did not believe it was the true faith?

Why would anyone live in the US (or Belgium, or Australia) if they did not believe it was the truest, best, most perfect country out there? Why would anyone marry someone if they thought a more perfect match might exist somewhere else?

"Good enough for me" is not the same as "the only possible truth."

Bill,

You have a very funny way of taking things out of context and flipping them over with some weird analogy.

I never said the Catholic faith was 'Good enough for me'. I personally believe it is the one true faith which is why I practise it. But, have no doubt about it; I will never tell anyone else that they are wrong in their beliefs, nor will I tell them they are going to hell. I am referring to myself and only myself. I am not asking folks to like the Catholic faith...at most I'm just asking for folks to respect me and my choice.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[Muenkel 0]

Billy,

I truly understand your disgust with the whole abuse situation. I have a very close friend who was abused. Did this shake my belief in the Catholic faith? No. I was able to seperate the human actions from the faith. Any priest, bishop, cardinal, etc. who is or has been involved in that behaviour is a criminal and should be treated as such. I am thrilled these atrocities have been brought out into the open. It has helped the victims feel more comfortable in coming forward and hopefully get some sort of healing. And, the predators are finally being held accountable.

On the flip side, there are still many very good priests, bishops and cardinals who have never been guilty of this crime.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[jakee 1,596]

Quote

jakee,

I don't believe you are going to understand what I am saying, no matter how I word it. Read Wendy's reply...she got it.

Ok, so you don't actually know whether or not committing a grave sin, like judgement, really does put someone on the road to hell.

If I murdered someone and never repented you don't actually know if I would go to hell or not?

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[masterblaster72 0]

Quote

I never said the Catholic faith was 'Good enough for me'. I personally believe it is the one true faith which is why I practise it. But, have no doubt about it; I will never tell anyone else that they are wrong in their beliefs, nor will I tell them they are going to hell. I am referring to myself and only myself. I am not asking folks to like the Catholic faith...at most I'm just asking for folks to respect me and my choice.

Chris

I, for one, can certainly respect that.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[billvon 3,120]

>I personally believe it is the one true faith which is why I practise it.

And that's absolutely fine. I was disagreeing with your assertion that if someone does not believe theirs is the "one true faith" it would be foolish to follow it. Everyone has their own reasons for following certain religions, and their beliefs are no less valid than yours.

>I never said the Catholic faith was 'Good enough for me.'

I didn't imply you did. But you do believe that the Catholic faith is sufficiently good for you - the line you draw is that it's the "one true faith." Others may draw that line in a different place. For example, a protestant may indeed believe in following Christ and finding salvation through him, but think that Martin Luther's arguments, the Pope's divinity, or whether or not the Host is literally the body of Christ are really not all that important, and thus protestants and catholics really follow the same basic religion.

So to answer your question "why would anyone practise a particular faith if they did not believe it was the true faith?" Some people believe that the details of a particular faith are not all that important, and that it is the lessons taught that are the core of their beliefs.

[Muenkel 0]

Bill,

Now I understand what your point is. Thank you for clarifying it.
Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[460 0]

Quote

Quote

There are Jews in the world, there are Buddists......

Pagans....each and every one.

In which case, follow the major points of every major religion to hopefully cover all the bases to earn your way into Heaven or at least avoid hell. However, the different sects of religion may be disturbed that you're two-timing on them religion-wise. It may also be far too much trouble considering the significant chance that there is no afterlife.

Looks like a death sandwich without the bread - Steve Deadman Morrell, BASE 174

[CameraNewbie 0]

What is an Agnostic anyway? You believe that there may be gods or may not be gods that exists out there, right? You don't know what to believe until it is proven to you, right? So what do you believe at this current time, right this very moment? I would say it's nothing. You believe in nothing. Which makes you an Atheist my friend. You just want a special label that sets you aside from being an Atheist.

Atheists here in SC never cease to crack me up. I am one myself and I don't believe in gods. Therefore, I choose not to argue the point because the only statement we can make is "Atheists do not believe in gods".

What is the one true church?
I don't believe in gods so there is no one true church.

What can your gods do for my sin problem?
gods don't exist. Sin is used in a religious context. Religions believe in gods. I don't believe in gods.

Atheists, repeat after me: "gods don't exist", "gods don't exist", "gods don't exist".

This is our only answer for anything that's thrown at us regarding gods. Why are you replying back with anything else. It doesn't make any sense to do so.

What do protesters want? Dead cops! When do they want it? Every 2 weeks!

[Muenkel 0]

Quote

jakee,

I don't believe you are going to understand what I am saying, no matter how I word it. Read Wendy's reply...she got it.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Ok, so you don't actually know whether or not committing a grave sin, like judgement, really does put someone on the road to hell.

If I murdered someone and never repented you don't actually know if I would go to hell or not?

Fair question. Keep in mind that I am answering from a Catholic point of view. The answer is no, I do not know if the person in your hypothetical is going to hell. I do not, and will never know that person's culpability. I cannot judge as I am just a human, not God. (Note: Man's law regarding murder is not part of this discussion.) As far as the Catholic Church is concerned, the act of murder in and of itself is a mortal sin, however, humans cannot know another person's culpability. That is why we believe that God is the only judge as He knows every heart.

Here are the conditions of mortal sin according to the Catholic Catechism:

"For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met".

1. Grave matter: Specified by the 10 Commandments.

2. Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law.

3. Unintentional ignorance can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense.

We believe only God and the individual knows if these 3 conditions are met. Therefore, I as an individual can only examine my own conscience and not pass judgment on the condition of someone elses soul.

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris