GOP Sen. Pete Domenici breaks with Bush on the Iraq war

[kallend 2,148]

www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0537581020070705

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Amazon 7]

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Counting down till the Republican Dead Enders show up and start calling him a traitor for not supporting the president and the NeoCon War of Liberation.

[goofyjumper 0]

Even some of the republicans are starting to see how much bullshit this war is.

Next move is to impeach and investigate all the others involved.

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I love and Miss you so much Honey!
Orfun #3 ~ Darla

[NCclimber 0]

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Counting down till the Republican Dead Enders show up and start calling him a traitor for not supporting the president and the NeoCon War of Liberation.

Here's a newsflash - President Bush isn't all that popular among Republicans, right now. I know this runs counter to the simplistic view many Bush-haters have of Republicans/conservatives. It is what it is.

[Amazon 7]

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I know this runs counter to the simplistic view many Bush-haters have of Republicans/conservatives.

That whole Bush Hater thing is sooooo tired....even if it was handed down from the right wing pulpits in local churches...

See that is the problem.. anyone who disagrees with them are against them.. and therefor a hater...sheesh.. isnt it time for a new right wing hymnal to sing from??

I guess its all part of that projection thing the right is doing on the rest of the country that does not agree with their view of the world... you know.. the one that is just filled with their hate and Vitriol that one right winger pointed out in his own projections.

Why does the right wing hate so much of America instead of trying to live with the rest of us who do not follow a failed president...following a failed policy..all the while spouting failed homilies.

[idrankwhat 0]

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Here's a newsflash - President Bush isn't all that popular among Republicans, right now.

Sorry, I just can't pass this up. See attachment

[Andrewwhyte 1]

So is this guy coming to a hard conclusion or just a rat abandoning a sinking ship.

[lawrocket 3]

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See that is the problem.. anyone who disagrees with them are against them.. and therefor a hater...sheesh.. isnt it time for a new right wing hymnal to sing from??

The problem, Jeanne, is that while he was merely a candidate, "hater" would be an adequate term for the opposition to Bush.

"Bush is a dangerous idiot who in his diminished mental capacity has managed to get us into a quagmire. He took all this yes man advice from his Ultra Rightie YES MEN and went forward with all his swaggering Texican bravado. Too bad he does not actually think before he acts.. a couple thousand Americans would still be alive and we could have actually won the war on terror. After Clinton I wanted a president I could be proud of... instead we get one far worse to be ashamed of."

When statements like that are written, it is not an attack on policy but an attack on the person. A "hater" is someone whose subjective attacks of the person are more visible than objective attacks on policy.

Haters run the American body politic. Was Kerry attacked on the basis of his policies? No - he was attacked as a "waffler," or an elite New England pussy who wimped out of Vietnam with questionable purple hearts.

Meanwhile, Bush is viewed as a bravado-filled, beer swilling, coke snorting dunce who wimped outta Vietnam by joining the National Guard and is too stupid to think anything logically through.

With a seven year history of Bush being denounced as an idiot/moron/dunce/etc., the Bush defenders are pretty reasonable in their reference to the Anti-Bushes as "haters."

Much like the Clinton defenders were correct in referring to a large portion of the Anti-Clinton crowd as "haters." Yes, a number of people just hated him despite his accomplishments.

The way people hated Reagan.
And Bush, Sr.
And Carter.
And Nixon.
And Johnson.
And Kennedy (there were plenty of people who HATED Kennedy - hence the conspiracy theories)
And Ike...

p.s. It's not like I'm not guilty of being a hater myself. It's a normal part of being a human.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[NCclimber 0]

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I know this runs counter to the simplistic view many Bush-haters have of Republicans/conservatives.

That whole Bush Hater thing is sooooo tired.

But not nearly as tired as that whole neo-con thing.

I wonder if you'll get the underlying point.

[Amazon 7]

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But not nearly as tired as that whole neo-con thing.

A Neo con is as a neo con does....

http://www.csmonitor.com/specials/neocon/neocon101.html

Interesting path they have taken America down isnt it... I think its a failed policy....but I am willing to let history judge.... and if you supported the policy.. then yes....its waddling like a neocon.. and quacking like a neocon.

[Amazon 7]

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"Bush is a dangerous idiot who in his diminished mental capacity has managed to get us into a quagmire. He took all this yes man advice from his Ultra Rightie YES MEN and went forward with all his swaggering Texican bravado. Too bad he does not actually think before he acts.. a couple thousand Americans would still be alive and we could have actually won the war on terror. After Clinton I wanted a president I could be proud of... instead we get one far worse to be ashamed of."

When statements like that are written, it is not an attack on policy but an attack on the person. A "hater" is someone whose subjective attacks of the person are more visible than objective attacks on policy.

Tsk tsk tsk....
It isnt called the "BUSH Doctrine" because he is some detached observer

Still it is not hate.. its a statement of opinion based onthe FACTS...counselor.

[NCclimber 0]

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I wonder if you'll get the underlying point.

Disappointed again.

[livendive 8]

I like seeing how the Republicans who are distancing themselves from Bush's policies are blaming the Iraqi government for all the problems. Remember the first elections and the inked thumbs? They broke countless elbows patting themselves on the back for that development, but a couple years and many thousand deaths later, it's not our fault it theirs. Take all the glory and none of the blame.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[NCclimber 0]

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I like seeing how the Republicans who are distancing themselves from Bush's policies are blaming the Iraqi government for all the problems.

We all have our own unique interpretation of what people mean.

[livendive 8]

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I like seeing how the Republicans who are distancing themselves from Bush's policies are blaming the Iraqi government for all the problems.

We all have our own unique interpretation of what people mean.

Yeah, this is pretty ambiguous

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"I have carefully studied the Iraq situation and believe we cannot continue asking our troops to sacrifice indefinitely while the Iraqi government is not making measurable progress to move its country forward," Domenici said.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[lawrocket 3]

I can't see everything there as "opinion based on facts." "Dangerous idiot with diminished mental capacity" is something that isn't exactly a friendly ribbing, Jean.

I've figured out some interesting things about how the right and the left characterize the other side. The names they call each other are usually things like:

Right wing calls left wing:
- unpatriotic
- bleeding hearts
- idealists
- pinkos
- sinners
- wimps
- wrong
- immoral
- etc.

Left wing calls right wing:
- stupid
- idiotic
- morons
- heartless
- Non-mainstream
- racist/sexist/homophobic
- etc...

Rarely is there anything in the usual course of discussion that discusses points without vitriol. Recall Robert Bork. On the floor of the Senate, Ted Kennedy did not introduce discussion of the nomination so much as he fired the opening salvo. "Robert Bork's America is a land in which women would be forced into back-alley abortions, blacks would sit at segregated lunch counters, rogue police could break down citizens' doors in midnight raids, schoolchildren could not be taught about evolution, writers and artists could be censored at the whim of government."

Thus, the verb "to Bork" entered the vernacular.

I find there is little evidence to suggest that Geroge W. Bush is an idiot, moron, or has less that average intelligence. Smart people can make huge mistakes and do stupid things. Nobody ever called Jimmy Carter stupid. Nobody thought Woodrow Wilson was anything short of an absolute genius.

Nevertheless, Jimmy Carter's presidency was pretty much a failure. His presidency saw the continuation of stagflation. His foreign policy wasn't exactly stellar, with the exception of the Camp David Accords.

And Woodrow Wilson would have such successes as the creation of the Federal Reserve. Still, his military management was wholly suspect and the US was brought into WWI unprepared. He would spend his whole second presidency dealing with the war. While he would detail his famous "Fourteen Points" and lead to the creation of the League of Nations, his pursuits became in essence academic. Even though he won the Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts, the United States did not accept the League of Nations and but a few of his Fourteen Points were ever adopted - pretty much a spectacular failure. We know it was a failure because within 20 years there was WWII.

Geniuses can have problems, too. I do not credit Bush's problems to him being an idiot. Rather, I believe that Bush just is a lousy freaking administrator. He has a vision, but lacks the skills to implement it.

Reagan had the skills to implement his vision. To paraphrase Malcolm X, he could "talk right down to earth in a language that everybody can clearly understand." And he was a very hands-off administrator, which got him into trouble (like Iran-Contra). And, unlike most politicians, he recognized AND MADE LIGHT OF his shortcomings.

Bush is not an idiot. This country has yet to elect an idiot to the presidency. Bush has just fucked up mightily on some things - something every president has. Kennedy with the Bay of Pigs followed by the success of the October Missile Crisis - explain that!

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[lawrocket 3]

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I like seeing how the Republicans who are distancing themselves from Bush's policies are blaming the Iraqi government for all the problems. Remember the first elections and the inked thumbs? They broke countless elbows patting themselves on the back for that development, but a couple years and many thousand deaths later, it's not our fault it theirs. Take all the glory and none of the blame.

Blues,
Dave

Hey, Bush staked his presidency on this war. HE will go down as a failure because of it.

And the Congress who empowered it should take the blame. And the Congress who has continued to make public statements against the war and allow it to keep going deserve blame, too.

Sen. Dominici - if you are serious, end this fucking war. You've got plenty of support. If the Dems were more serious about ending this war, they would have ended it. I have no doubt that this war will end - just after the 08 elections...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[Amazon 7]

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Dangerous idiot with diminished mental capacity"

Just think how much more intelligent Party Boy would have been if he had not been frying brain cells on Cocaine during his college years and his subsequent "service" in the National Guard.
I remember when the Golden Flow program started... I also remember the repercussions of being caught with illicit substances in the urinalysis...Party Boy did not bother to show up for the last year of his "service" since he did not take that flight physical.. that would also have forced him to provide a sample of his cocaine laced urine...and with his family connections.. never had any repercussions for his actions.. You say he has some bad administration skills.. for such a Masters in Business Administration from Harvard he sure has made some "interesting" business blunders... in his rather unstellar carreer.

So yes... diminished capacity CERTAINLY applies.

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Dangerous idiot with diminished mental capacity"

Just think how much more intelligent Party Boy would have been if he had not been frying brain cells on Cocaine during his college years and his subsequent "service" in the National Guard.
I remember when the Golden Flow program started... I also remember the repercussions of being caught with illicit substances in the urinalysis...Party Boy did not bother to show up for the last year of his "service" since he did not take that flight physical.. that would also have forced him to provide a sample of his cocaine laced urine...and with his family connections.. never had any repercussions for his actions.. You say he has some bad administration skills.. for such a Masters in Business Administration from Harvard he sure has made some "interesting" business blunders... in his rather unstellar carreer.

So yes... diminished capacity CERTAINLY applies.

If nothing else,... you're consistent.

[billvon 3,116]

>Counting down till the Republican Dead Enders show up and start calling
>him a traitor for not supporting the president and the NeoCon War of
>Liberation.

I'm sure a few will do that, but as poll results indicate, I think republicans are beginning to side with him. (42% of republicans now support withdrawal in some form.) There will always be a few who support him no matter what, of course. Heck, Nixon's approval rating was 22% the day before he resigned, which means that almost a quarter of americans supported him!

But most people are starting to realize that we have to get out, no matter what their party.

[masterblaster72 0]

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I find there is little evidence to suggest that Geroge W. Bush is an idiot, moron, or has less that average intelligence.

If you're a fan of correct English and conveyance of clear thinking and logic (as I am sure you are since your job requires that), take this as some evidence that Shrub has less than average intelligence.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[billvon 3,116]

>take this as some evidence that Shrub has less than average intelligence.

I think you may be stuck on the 'average intelligence' thing. Take Speaker's Corner. You may be tempted to think that people here aren't very smart, but they represent a sample of above-average intelligence. That's not because smart people decide to post here; it's because people too dumb to use computers/the internet cannot post here. "Average intelligence" of all computer users is somewhat higher than average; average intelligence of all criminals in jail is somewhat lower. (Again, not because criminality equates to intelligence - but because the smarter ones don't get caught.)

Personally, I don't think Bush is a moron or is of below-average intelligence. I think he's about average; indeed, being a "regular guy" has been part of his appeal. It's just that we're used to presidents who are smarter than average.

[lawrocket 3]

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I find there is little evidence to suggest that Geroge W. Bush is an idiot, moron, or has less that average intelligence.

If you're a fan of correct English and conveyance of clear thinking and logic (as I am sure you are since your job requires that), take this as some evidence that Shrub has less than average intelligence.

Okay. I see this kinda stuff all the time. Well, I'll compare them with comments from a genius:

"Why do we need 30,000 math and science professionals to go into classrooms to stimulate interest? Because we can't be a competitive nation without more scientists and more mathematicians. Because in order for us to make sure the best jobs are in America requires us having mathematicians and scientists and engineers and physicists. And the best way to stimulate that interest is from people who actually know what they're talking about."
True. As Al Gore Himself said:

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Quite frankly, teachers are the only profession that teach our children." --Vice President Al Gore, 9/18/95

"The world is seeing the promise and potential of the peaceful use of nukyular energy. I emphasize that word, peaceful use, because one of my predecessors, Dwight David Eisenhower, in 1953 called on the world's scientists and engineers to find a way to produce peaceful power from atomic energy that would serve the needs, rather than the fears, of mankind." I'll compare that with this one:

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"One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, & that one word is 'to be prepared'." --Vice President Al Gore,
12/6/93

- so is Dubya as smart as Gore? Or is Gore as stupid as Dubya?

Here is a whole list of doozies by the intelligent Al Gore:

"If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." (True - succeed or fail? There are so many shades of gray)

"Democrats understand the importance of bondage between a mother and child." (Well, he IS from Tennessee)

"Welcome to President Clinton, Mrs. Clinton, and my fellow astronauts." (He also thinks he's a space cadet)

"Mars is essentially in the same orbit... Mars is somewhat the same distance from the Sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen. If oxygen, that means we can breathe." (something fishy about breating water)

"The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century." (In a previous life he was a salt miner in Poland)

"I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy - but that could change." (Yep. How could he have predicted in 1998 that Dubya would be POTUS?)

"Verbosity leads to unclear, inarticulate things." (And this proves that being terse can lead to the same thing)

"I have made good judgments in the past. I have made good judgments in the future." (L. Ron Hubbard told him so)

"The future will be better tomorrow." (He was being specific. The day AFTER tomorrow, that's a whole other story)

"We're going to have the best-educated American people in the world." (Wrong. The best educated Americans go to China)

"People that are really very weird can get into sensitive positions and have a tremendous impact on history." (No shit? Especially if they make films on climate change)

"I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." (Nor do I)

"We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a part of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a part of Europe." (We are the world)

"I am not part of the problem. I am a Democrat." (It's Republicans who cause all the ills)

"A low voter turnout is an indication of fewer people going to the polls." (Dig deeper, Watson!)

"Illegitimacy is something we should talk about in terms of not having it." (that would legitimize it)

"We are ready for any unforeseen event that may or may not occur." (We have seen the unforseen, and seen the fores)

"For NASA, space is still a high priority." (Not as high as, say, plate tectonics or brokering junk bonds, but a high priority)

"The American people would not want to know of any misquotes that Al Gore may or may not make." (We don't want to hear this)

"We're all capable of mistakes, but I do not care to enlighten you on the mistakes we may or may not have made." (He's a Democrat)

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." (Glad we got that straight)

"[It's] time for the human race to enter the solar system." (I agree. Earth or bust!)

---

Okay. Now I agree that Al Gore is a pretty smart guy and smart guys at times say dumb things. People will get tongue tied, etc., all the time. I do. You do. We all do whether we are dumb or smart.

I don't think that saying things that come out wrong is an indication of intellect.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[kelpdiver 2]

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I find there is little evidence to suggest that Geroge W. Bush is an idiot, moron, or has less that average intelligence.

If you're a fan of correct English and conveyance of clear thinking and logic (as I am sure you are since your job requires that), take this as some evidence that Shrub has less than average intelligence.

Shrub's SAT scores demonstrate fairly clearly that he is above average in intelligence. Perhaps (quite likely) not enough to get into Yale without the legacy edge, but at least a standard deviation up.

Some of the slightly more racist Democrats in California make fun of Arnold's English for the accenting. At best it's elitism.

BTW, I'd say some of the citations in the link you provided were people of below average intelligence.

"Our country has not ordered a new nukyular power plant since the 1970s, partially as a result of constant litigation and overly complex regulations. So we're working to overcome those obstacles.
-- (Perhaps it's also partially a result of these two obstacles: Chernobyl and Three Mile Island.) Athens, Alabama, Jun. 21, 2007"

Bush's statement here is factual, and accurate. 3 mile island killed no one, and old Russian reactor designs have little relevence. Meanwhile, very large numbers of coalworkers died from exposure, and all Americans suffer from the pollution due to the use of coal, as well as the potential global warming effects. Nuclear is overdue as a partial solution to future energy needs.

[masterblaster72 0]

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- so is Dubya as smart as Gore? Or is Gore as stupid as Dubya?

Those were some great quotes by Gore I wonder if those commentaries were yours -- also very funny.

I've never been a fan of Al Gore either...I think the 2000 elections demonstrated that they're equally as smart/stupid as each other.

edited to add: I think part of what determines a person's intelligence is decision-making, and in that department, Shrub fails miserably.

@kelpdiver

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Shrub's SAT scores demonstrate fairly clearly that he is above average in intelligence. Perhaps (quite likely) not enough to get into Yale without the legacy edge, but at least a standard deviation up.

I've seen clips of Shrub when he was campaigning and serving as governor of TX -- he was far more eloquent and appeared to be far more intelligent than he seems now. Somewhere along the way between 94 and 2000, I think his partying in the 70's caught up to him and pickled his brain permanently.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.