Skyrad 0
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Skyrad 0
QuoteQuoteYou forgot to mention it was thanks to Hamas that he was freed.
YES!! Those HUMANITARIANS!! They MUST be good guys after all! Forget all the bombings and murders.
Glad he's out, but to thank the group that has killed so many is foolish. Does Hamas need brownie points or just more sympathizers?
I didn't say to thank Hamas i said it was thnks to Hamas. There's a difference.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
TheAnvil 0
Glad he's free.
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!
Trent 0
QuoteI didn't say to thank Hamas i said it was thnks to Hamas. There's a difference.
I know, but why try to shine a positive light on something that HAS no positive side?? Just to be contrarian?
Oh, hello again!
Skyrad 0
Just acknowledging that Hamas played a pivitol role in his release. Can't be balanced if we don't look at the good and the bad acts of an organisation and in the west all the focus is negative. But Hamas is here to stay and sooner or later a dialouge needs to take place better to clearly objectivly understand the organisation than to simply deride it as a bogeyman terrorist outfit. That means taking a balanced look at the organisation good and bad aspects alike.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
QuoteJust acknowledging that Hamas played a pivitol role in his release. Can't be balanced if we don't look at the good and the bad acts of an organisation and in the west all the focus is negative. But Hamas is here to stay and sooner or later a dialouge needs to take place better to clearly objectivly understand the organisation than to simply deride it as a bogeyman terrorist outfit. That means taking a balanced look at the organisation good and bad aspects alike.
Thanks for pointing this out. I think that the US missed a real opportunity for initiating peace last year after Hamas was elected. You don't have to like them, but if you give them the respect that a democratically elected leadership deserves then you're much more likely to get them to behave like responsible leaders, as they did with recent events. This policy of continued beating until morale improves doesn't work.
Trent 0
And show the world that terrorizing your way to the top works? Good idea.
Oh, hello again!
Skyrad 0
I see you missed the bit in that post where it correctly mentions that Hamas was democraticly elected. Hamas is not just an armed organisation but to the people in the PA a humanitarian one organising schools, medical care and social welfare for the people. Just because the west doesn't agree with some of their policies doesn't mean that we can't do business with them. One of the first things they did when they recently took control of Gaza was to say to Israel that they would not attack Israel before Israel attacked them. The second thing was to restore peace and order to the streets of Gaza the third was make a deal with Egypt to stamp down on Al Quieda organisations that were freely operating and growing within Gaza the fourth was to obtain the release of Alan Johnston.
Within Hamas there is a realisation that Israel is a nation and isn't going away unofficialy there has been talk within the organisation of officially recognising Israel and dong business with them. Unfortunatly the west once again is making the mistake of alienating Hamas as far as possible and backing the corrupt Fattah. This has the effect of making Fattah look like western sell outs which only goes to help recruit Islamists to extremist organisations and secondly it fuels the corruption and instablity within the west bank.
So what was the response of the US and Israel to the democratic election of Hamas? Aranging and iinternational financial boycott and supplying Fatah with thousands of M16s. Considering that the suicide bombers of the Al Aska Martyrs brigade are controled by Fatah one can only wonder what the hell they were thinking. Hamas is here to stay better to engange in dialouge with them and undercut the more etreme elements within them by doing so than alienate them further and bolster the more extreme elements within.
Within Hamas there is a realisation that Israel is a nation and isn't going away unofficialy there has been talk within the organisation of officially recognising Israel and dong business with them. Unfortunatly the west once again is making the mistake of alienating Hamas as far as possible and backing the corrupt Fattah. This has the effect of making Fattah look like western sell outs which only goes to help recruit Islamists to extremist organisations and secondly it fuels the corruption and instablity within the west bank.
So what was the response of the US and Israel to the democratic election of Hamas? Aranging and iinternational financial boycott and supplying Fatah with thousands of M16s. Considering that the suicide bombers of the Al Aska Martyrs brigade are controled by Fatah one can only wonder what the hell they were thinking. Hamas is here to stay better to engange in dialouge with them and undercut the more etreme elements within them by doing so than alienate them further and bolster the more extreme elements within.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Trent 0
So you'd have no problem with murderers running a country as long as they were elected? Just because some group got elected once doesn't mean everything they do is ethical and that they should be treated with utmost respect.
You must have some inside info on Hamas to know that while they say Israel must be wiped off the planet that they really mean, we can make it work with Israel peacefully. Until the actions speak louder than that rumor, I say bullshit.
You must have some inside info on Hamas to know that while they say Israel must be wiped off the planet that they really mean, we can make it work with Israel peacefully. Until the actions speak louder than that rumor, I say bullshit.
Oh, hello again!
QuoteSo you'd have no problem with murderers running a country as long as they were elected? Just because some group got elected once doesn't mean everything they do is ethical and that they should be treated with utmost respect.
I agree with you, and I hope you'll help me vote them out next fall
You must have some inside info on Hamas to know that while they say Israel must be wiped off the planet that they really mean, we can make it work with Israel peacefully. Until the actions speak louder than that rumor, I say bullshit.
It's not inside info. It's called "getting your news from sources other than the US media
Skyrad 0
QuoteSo you'd have no problem with murderers running a country as long as they were elected? Just because some group got elected once doesn't mean everything they do is ethical and that they should be treated with utmost respect.
Try reading my post instead of just sounding off, the US government is hardly squeky clean when it comes to the deaths of civilians. It also deals with murderers and former murderers all the time. Including Fatah who they supplied arms to along with Israel in the past few months. The kidnappers of Alan Johnson are controled by Fatah.
QuoteYou must have some inside info on Hamas to know that while they say Israel must be wiped off the planet that they really mean, we can make it work with Israel peacefully. Until the actions speak louder than that rumor, I say bullshit.
Lets just say I don't just read the propagander thats spoon fed to me. The information is out there the only difference between our ability to discover the information is a desire to.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Skyrad 0
Just in case you'd like some 'inside info' too...
Inside Hamas: the untold story of militants, martyrs and spies
Zaki Chehab I B Tauris,
ISBN 1845113896
Hamas: unwritten chapters
Azzam Tamimi Hurst,
ISBN 185065834X
Hamas: politics, charity and terrorism in the service of jihad
Matthew Levitt Yale University Press,
In an attempt to mollify the Egyptian government and lure it way from its historic alliance with Fatah, the Hamas leader, Khalid Mishal, told Egyptian authorities that his movement's tough stand against Fatah in Gaza had been necessary to prevent the strip from becoming a haven for al-Qaeda splinter groups. He was referring in part to the powerful clan of Dagmoush, which is responsible for holding captive the BBC correspondent Alan Johnston for the past three months. Mishal said Gaza's lawlessness had provided a fertile environment in which extreme groups could flourish. This message was important for Egyptian officials, who have had difficulty controlling their border with Gaza and preventing gangs from infiltrating on both sides via a network of underground tunnels. Over the past few years, Egyptian resorts along the Sinai coast have been targeted by suicide bombers, claiming hundreds of lives and seriously affecting the tourism industry on which Egypt depends. Security forces believe a number of Egyptian nationals from the desert border region were affiliated to al-Qaeda and had been hiding in the Gaza town of Rafah. Some reports have suggested they may also have received training and financial support from members of Hamas without the approval of its leadership....
Hamas's strongman in Gaza, Mahmoud al- Zahhar, the movement's former foreign minister, said the group was keen to co-operate with the Egyptian government, despite the strong links between Hamas, the Palestinian branch of the Islamic Brotherhood and its Egyptian mother branch - Egypt's President Hosni Mubarak's main opponent. This position was seen by some in the region as a PR campaign to improve Hamas's tarnished image following the brutal killings of its opponents and an attempt to woo western governments to talk to its deposed prime minister, Ismail Haniya. Still, by issuing threats against Johnston's captors, Hamas appears to be taking practical steps to distance itself from Islamic organisations and clans allied to al-Qaeda. It has not gone unnoticed that the kidnappers have said they would exchange Johnston for Abu Qutada, an al-Qaeda leader held in a British jail....
The consequences for Gaza's one million starving Palestinian population are alarming. At the moment nobody knows who will pay the salaries of more than 120,000 public-sector employees. Will Israel allow food and aid to get across checkpoints? What will happen to Palestinians crossing the border from Gaza to Egypt?
While Hamas's leaders do not appear to have answers to any of the questions, it seems that some of them, at least, are aware of the responsibilities they face. Al-Zahhar sent a message to the Israelis that said: "Hamas will not attack Israel before Israel attacks us."
http://www.newstatesman.com/200706250017
Hamas had claimed that the Army of Islam was associated with Fatah, a point which seemed to be confirmed by Mr Johnston who described his kidnappers as growing nervous once Fatah had lost political power.
http://www.economist.com/world/africa/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9432513&CFID=9908967&CFTOKEN=96541936
Ironic then that Israel and the US response to the democratic election of Hamas was to send thousands of M16's ammo and other weapons to Fatah.
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Skyrad 0
QuoteAnd show the world that terrorizing your way to the top works? Good idea.
Actually Hamas were democraticly elected by the people. The government then were cobbled by the US and Israeli led financial and aid boycott. Finaly they took control of the streets from the sucide bombers and supporters of Fatah who the US and Israel then supplied with weapons to start a civil war.
When it comes to terrorising your way to the top I suggest you ask the current administration for advice seeing as its them that are suppling the Al Aska Brigade (amoung others) terrorists of Fatah with explosives, arms, transport.
http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Security/11577.htm
http://www.counterpunch.org/brauchli01252007.html
http://arabist.net/archives/2006/12/17/is-the-usisrael-arming-dahlan-against-hamas/
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=19390
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
>
It sure worked for Sinn Fein
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Trent 0
QuoteTry reading my post instead of just sounding off, the US government is hardly squeky clean when it comes to the deaths of civilians. It also deals with murderers and former murderers all the time. Including Fatah who they supplied arms to along with Israel in the past few months. The kidnappers of Alan Johnson are controled by Fatah.
So because Fatah (and seemingly our own gov't) is just as bad as Hamas... we should support Hamas? Talk about a choice between 2 devils. So one guy sent a message to Israel? Has Hamas stuck to that message? Seems like they're just wanting to play the enemy of my enemy game against Fatah to me. What will they do when they have no more internal opposition? We'll see... I have a feeling it's too dangerous for them to back off the "push Israel into the sea" mentality... but who knows... maybe the terrorists have reformed and gone legit. Really.
QuoteLets just say I don't just read the propagander thats spoon fed to me. The information is out there the only difference between our ability to discover the information is a desire to.
You just fed from a different spoon. That doesn't have anything to do with what is actually going on. Actions speak louder.
Oh, hello again!
Trent 0
QuoteIt sure worked for Sinn Fein
I'm sure those targeted by the IRA don't feel slighted by that at all, right? Do those who disagreed with their tactics still see them as murderers there?
Oh, hello again!
So, are you saying that an Irish terrorist gang can change it's spots but Hamas can't?
and yes we do still see them as murderers. If you kill innocent people, that's exactly what you are. A suit and tie isn't ever going to change that.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
and yes we do still see them as murderers. If you kill innocent people, that's exactly what you are. A suit and tie isn't ever going to change that.
(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome
Skyrad 0
Quote>
It sure worked for Sinn Fein
And the Stern gang
And the ANC
When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
Trent 0
QuoteSo, are you saying that an Irish terrorist gang can change it's spots but Hamas can't?
I'm not saying that at all. In fact, I'm saying what you say here:
Quoteand yes we do still see them as murderers. If you kill innocent people, that's exactly what you are. A suit and tie isn't ever going to change that.
Why would the world see Hamas as anything but what they've spent decades being?
Spots changed or not... it's still a leopard.
Oh, hello again!
True to form
Lucius Annaeus Seneca
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