Libby Spared

[kallend 2,146]

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They can't answer back to any of the facts can they. So who is being political I wonder?

A jury found him GUILTY, and a judge passed sentence. Those are the facts. Most FELONS don't have the President of the USA as a personal savior, and have to serve their sentence.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 23]

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They can't answer back to any of the facts can they. So who is being political I wonder?

A jury found him GUILTY, and a judge passed sentence. Those are the facts. Most FELONS don't have the President of the USA as a personal savior, and have to serve their sentence.

You will not/can not answer the question can you? To do so destroys the whole premise on which you base you biased points?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Oh and most presidents are not fellons but we know one that is now don't we (even though it was never put through the courts)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[akarunway 1]

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Paris Hilton did more time for one misdemeanor than Libby did for 4 felonies. Our justice system is a freaking joke. I coulnd't give 2 shits about obeying 'the law' anymore. As long as I don't get caught or I have a friend who can get me off, fuck the law.

I'm w/ ya bro.

I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.

[Amazon 7]

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Oh and most presidents are not fellons but we know one that is now don't we (even though it was never put through the courts)

Yeah.. and it sucks that Ford pardoned him before he even went to trial

Seems to be a theme with the Republican party now doesnt it.

[sundevil777 102]

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You imply that you've never come to the conclusion that someone was unfairly convicted, or a victim of prosecutorial misconduct.

The crime of Perjury is full of opportunity for prosecutors to abuse their power. Key prosecution witnesses had conflicting testimony, Fitzgerald didn't want to end the investigation when the original purpose was satisfied, so he manufactured a case against a previous adversary.

I like how Fred Thompson has the guts to plainly say he would pardon Libby. No Fear.

I strongly suspect that our prisons hold thousands pf people who have suffered far greater injustice than Libby. Would that The Decider had their interests at heart too. However, his record as governor of Texas shows that he doesn't care a hoot about "little people" in jail.

There is an important distinction, Libby was prosecuted because of a politicized investigation, an investigation resulting from policy differences.

From the Byron York article:

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On Christmas Eve 1992, with less than a month left in office, Bush pardoned Weinberger, former national security adviser Robert McFarlane, and four others. Along with the pardons, the president included a long and sometimes passionate message explaining his action. Weinberger was a brilliant and dedicated public servant who contributed enormously to the United States’ victory in the Cold War, Bush wrote. Beyond that, each of those pardoned, he continued, deserved clemency for other reasons as well: They were motivated by patriotism; they did not seek to profit from their actions; they had long records of service to their country; and they had already paid a heavy price in legal fees and damage to careers.

But the pardon declaration was much more than a testimonial to the men involved. The president took the opportunity to issue a full-throated condemnation not only of Walsh but of what his investigation had done to this country:

The prosecutions of the individuals I am pardoning represent what I believe is a profoundly troubling development in the political and legal climate of our country: the criminalization of policy differences. These differences should be addressed in the political arena, without the Damocles sword of criminality hanging over the heads of some of the combatants. The proper target is the president, not his subordinates; the proper forum is the voting booth, not the courtroom. . . . It is my hope that the action I am taking today will begin to restore these disputes to the battleground where they properly belong.

Fitzgerald should have been similarly criticized. Fred Thompson would not only have granted a full pardon, he would have made it clear what he thought of Fitzgerald. I admire him for that willingness to be so politically incorrect.

The underlying action within the Libby prosecution was NOT illegal (the supposed 'outing' of Plame). The investigation continued purely as a means to catch someone for a perjury charge. That someone wasn't the person that leaked the information because he wasn't a Bush supporter.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Amazon 7]

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The underlying action within the Libby prosecution was NOT illegal (the supposed 'outing' of Plame). The investigation continued purely as a means to catch someone for a perjury charge. That someone wasn't the person that leaked the information because he wasn't a Bush supporter.

When in a court of LAW as in life itself... telling the truth has far more to do with character than the implications of covering up the truth with a lie.

I get the feeling those on the political right do not mind the lies...just getting caught in them.
When you tell no lies... you can not be convicted of perjury OR be thought of as a liar by those around you.

[sundevil777 102]

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>Cheney can ask for the CIA's opinion if it is OK to release info, but in the
>end it is their call.

So it is your opinion that Cheney did in fact reveal (or direct Libby to reveal) that Plame was working undercover, but that he had the right to do so?

If anybody should have gotten in trouble for outing the not-so-covert agent it should have been the agent herself and her husband.

I do think Cheney has the right to reveal Plame as a not-so-covert CIA agent. She works for the Executive branch of government. However, we don't know if Cheney directed Libby to do that. Cheney definitely had the right to refute the crap that Joe Wilson was spreading, especially because he got the assignment to Niger only because of his not-so-covert agent wife. Refuting that crap required that some info be declassified.

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>All that the juror said was that they believed Libby to have been tasked
>to talk to the press. SO WHAT?

If your "SO WHAT?" refers to your above-mentioned belief that Cheney did in fact authorize Plame's outing, then you are right - what the juror said merely reinforces the idea that Cheney directed the release of this information.

You're making conclusions not justified from the juror's statement. The juror did not make the statement that Cheney authorized the outing of the not-so-covert agent. The supposed outing of the not-so-covert agent Plame was not illegal as defined by the law (the covert intelligence act). Even if her outing did meet those standards, it was not intened to prevent the executive office itself from outing an agent if it wanted to do so, even though it has not been established that they did so. The executive office can simply change her assignment, that is within their jurisdiction. They might deserve criticism if it was done purely for political reasons, but it is within their rights - not illegal.

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>She's not a victim. She deserves to be blamed.

So Libby is a victim of an unfair justice system, whereas Valerie Plame, a CIA employee who served the US government in an undercover capacity - and who has never been indicted for any crimes - is the real criminal here?

No, Plame isn't the real criminal, but she deserved to be outed, but Plame did it to herself first. I do think that Joe Wilson committed perjury, I can't remember if Plame lied under oath also, or if she just lied without being under oath about the circumstances around her supposed outing.

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Perhaps you could extend this a bit to cover other 'injustices.' OJ Simpson is merely a victim of that evil woman Nicole! Paris Hilton is the real victim of unscrupulous, evil, celebrity-hating police officers, who all deserve to be fired for their role in causing her distress. Get on the bandwagon now!

As I've said before, the whole "victim culture" thing isn't going to play very well. No one believes that the poor, downtrodden, powerless administration is the victim of cunning, evil CIA women. (Well, other than the handful of Bush supporters left in the US.)

That's really a stretch, or shall I say a really crappy analogy. She isn't a victim, and deserved to be outed because she got her husband the job to do a hit on the administration. But again, perhaps we should invent a new term for when you're outed by others after outing yourself, because that is what happened, and Armitage did it. Fitzgerald never claimed that Libby broke the covert intelligence act.

I address your points, why not address rushmc's 3 questions?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Zipp0 1]

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You will not/can not answer the question can you? To do so destroys the whole premise on which you base you biased points?

The question is moot. The conviction is in. Case closed. (or so we thought)

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Zipp0 1]

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I'm w/ ya bro.

Good, at least I'll know someone (sort of) in the jail!

Seriously, I wish i didn't feel that way, but the justice system is a total charade.

BTW - I got the Hilton comparison from FOX news 2 days ago - Shepard Smith. That freakin' lib!

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[TheAnvil 0]

Holy Moly - I come to check in and this thread still lives. Amazing. I'm actually tempted to read the whole thing.

The furor over the Libby pardon is amusing in the abstract, as it really affects very few people. The President has the legal power to commute sentences, and that power was used. Its use in this case was legal, with the motives being questioned by many. The name Mark Rich comes to mind when pondering this. If you check it out, neither GWB nor El Jefe Clintonista nor Reagan nor Carter are in the top few presidents for # of pardons issued.

Kind of like the Federal Prosecutor firings. Quite a legal thing to do. Motives again were questioned, but very legal in all regards. And, as w/Libby's pardon, affecting very few people.

Both are really non-scandals and have little effect on the nation as a whole. The fact they've generated so much furor is a testament to the power of the press - which leans which way? Ahhhh yes.

Congress should instead spend its time taking pork out of the budget. Who was it that said that earmarks were going away again? Refresh my memory please?

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[rushmc 23]

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You will not/can not answer the question can you? To do so destroys the whole premise on which you base you biased points?

The question is moot. The conviction is in. Case closed. (or so we thought)

You will not/can not answer the question can you? To do so destroys the whole premise on which you base you biased points?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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They can't answer back to any of the facts can they. So who is being political I wonder?

A jury found him GUILTY, and a judge passed sentence. Those are the facts. Most FELONS don't have the President of the USA as a personal savior, and have to serve their sentence.

You will not/can not answer the question can you? To do so destroys the whole premise on which you base you biased points?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

Can anyone answer the the following?

If Fitzgerald knew day one who gave Novak Plames name AND he knew, again, within the first week, that giving out Plames name was not a crime of any kind in this case. (The crime Fitzgerald was assigned to investigate)

WHY DID THE DAM INVESTIGATION CONTINUE????? WHY WOULD AN INVESTIGATOR CONTINUE TO DEPOSE AND INTERVIEW PEOPLE FOR NO REASON??? MONTHS AFTER HE KNEW NO CRIME HAD BEEN COMMITED????????


Anybody got the guts??

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 23]

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Can anyone answer the the following?

If Fitzgerald knew day one who gave Novak Plames name AND he knew, again, within the first week, that giving out Plames name was not a crime of any kind in this case. (The crime Fitzgerald was assigned to investigate)

WHY DID THE DAM INVESTIGATION CONTINUE????? WHY WOULD AN INVESTIGATOR CONTINUE TO DEPOSE AND INTERVIEW PEOPLE FOR NO REASON??? MONTHS AFTER HE KNEW NO CRIME HAD BEEN COMMITED????????


Anybody got the guts??

Anybody care to comment on Schumers roll in any of this????

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[NCclimber 0]

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>It almost sounds like you still think Bush & Co. were behind the
>outing of Valerie Plame.

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Cheney 'Authorized' Libby to Leak Classified Information

By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, Feb. 9, 2006

Vice President Dick Cheney's former chief of staff, I. Lewis (Scooter) Libby, testified to a federal grand jury that he had been "authorized" by Cheney and other White House "superiors" in the summer of 2003 to disclose classified information to journalists to defend the Bush administration's use of prewar intelligence in making the case to go to war with Iraq, according to attorneys familiar with the matter, and to court records.

So what? Where does it say Cheney instructed Libby to out Plame? Fitzgerald produced no evidence... zero, zilch, zip, nada.. no evidence of Libby being instructed to do so. Here we are four years later, a lengthy investigation and trial... the case has been put under the microscope... and Joe Wilson's claim of the White House maliciously outing his wife has been shown to be a blatant lie. Sadly, many of the Bush haters out there can't face up to the facts of this little drama.

Boohoo.

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A juror on the case remarked that they believed Libby had been "tasked by the vice president to go and talk to reporters"

You mean the guy who was the first juror to speak to the press? Who lined up a spot on Larry King Live the day the trial ended? You mean the guy who posted a seven page story about being a juror on the Huffington Post, the following day? The guy who was very public about his 15 minutes of fame?

Ooo, let's pretend he speaks for all the jurors.

[TheAnvil 0]

I couldn't resist reading this thread - sorry I didn't respond earlier.

El Jefe Clintonista was never convicted of perjury - he admitted it in his plea bargain.

Those bemoaning Libby's sentence being commuted without calling for Clinton to have served time are hypocrites, nonetheless.


Rush - they won't answer your questions. They don't like the answers and refuse to face them.

Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

[Zipp0 1]

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Can anyone answer the the following?

If Fitzgerald knew day one who gave Novak Plames name AND he knew, again, within the first week, that giving out Plames name was not a crime of any kind in this case. (The crime Fitzgerald was assigned to investigate)

WHY DID THE DAM INVESTIGATION CONTINUE????? WHY WOULD AN INVESTIGATOR CONTINUE TO DEPOSE AND INTERVIEW PEOPLE FOR NO REASON??? MONTHS AFTER HE KNEW NO CRIME HAD BEEN COMMITED????????


Anybody got the guts??

Anybody care to comment on Schumers roll in any of this????

ANSWER THIS: WHAT IS THE AIR-SPEED VELOCITY OF AN UNLADEN AFRICAN SWALLOW??? YOU CAN'T ANWER IT CAN YOU? YOU JUST CAN'T ACCEPT WHAT IT COULD MEAN FOR YOUR ARGUMENT!!!

As to your question, Fitzgerald was doing his due diligence in a complex investigation. After you get your JD from Harvard Law , prosecute Gotti and the WTC bombers, the Kenya embasy bombers, and many many others, maybe you will have some insight.

And Fitzgerald answered your question himself. In his own words:

"That talking point won't fly... The truth is the engine of our judicial system. If you compromise the truth, the whole process is lost . . . if we were to walk away from this, we might as well hand in our jobs."[

So..... Can you handle the truth?

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[NCclimber 0]

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And Fitzgerald answered your question himself. In his own words:

"That talking point won't fly... The truth is the engine of our judicial system. If you compromise the truth, the whole process is lost . . . if we were to walk away from this, we might as well hand in our jobs."

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In fact, Mr. Libby was the first official known to have told a reporter when he talked to Judith Miller in June of 2003 about Valerie Wilson.

Anyone know when Armitage leaked Wilson's identity to Woodward?

[Zipp0 1]

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Anyone know when Armitage leaked Wilson's identity to Woodward?

Anyone know when OJ cut Nicole's head off???

That question, like yours, is moot. The case was decided and verdict delivered by a jury.

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[NCclimber 0]

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Anyone know when Armitage leaked Wilson's identity to Woodward?

Anyone know when OJ cut Nicole's head off???

That question, like yours, is moot. The case was decided and verdict delivered by a jury.

This is great. You make a point about Fitzgerald, which I assume you thought was somehow relevant... otherwise you wouldn't have made it. I spread a little sunshine on it and you claim it's moot. Interesting strategy.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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Both are really non-scandals and have little effect on the nation as a whole.

hmmm, gee, can you remember when something like that happened before??

Speed Racer
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[livendive 8]

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WHY DID THE DAM INVESTIGATION CONTINUE????? WHY WOULD AN INVESTIGATOR CONTINUE TO DEPOSE AND INTERVIEW PEOPLE FOR NO REASON??? MONTHS AFTER HE KNEW NO CRIME HAD BEEN COMMITED????????

So your problem isn't that Libby perjured himself, it's that he was investigated and given the opportunity to do so? When someone sells a kilo of cocaine to an undercover agent, do you bitch about the fact that he was given the opportunity to do so? Like such a person, Libby was given the rope with which to hang himself...he could have refused to lie, but instead he took the bait knowing his friends would take care of him.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Amazon 7]

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That question, like yours, is moot. The case was decided and verdict delivered by a jury.

Farewell, Fig Leaf
Bush called for a criminal investigation to ‘get to the bottom’ of the CIA leak scandal. It turns out he may be the bottom.

Web-Exclusive Commentary
By Eleanor Clift
Newsweek
Updated: 11:05 a.m. PT April 7, 2006
April 7, 2006 - President Bush promised to restore honor and dignity to the White House. It was a not-so-veiled reference to the indiscretions of his predecessor. Bush relied on the trust that stemmed from his supposedly higher character to take the nation to war, a war we have since learned was waged on mostly made-up intelligence.

Lewis (Scooter) Libby’s claim that it was the president who authorized the leaking of classified information for political gain may not mean that Bush did anything illegal, but it sure strips away the last fig leaf of his moral standing. It places the president at the center of a schoolyard fight to bully retired ambassador Joseph Wilson into shutting up about the administration’s lies that Iraq had sought to buy uranium from Africa. Wilson had traveled to Niger and reported back to the CIA that the claim was false, yet Bush made the alleged purchase a centerpiece of his case for war.

According to testimony by Libby—Dick Cheney’s former chief of staff—Bush gave the go-ahead through the vice president for the otherwise secretive and always dutiful Libby to leak the classified National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) to New York Times reporter Judith Miller. The leak set in motion the chain of events that led to the unmasking of Valerie Plame, Wilson’s wife, as an undercover CIA officer who had been working for an energy-related front company while investigating nuclear proliferation. It is a serious crime to reveal the identity of a covert operative, and Bush called for a criminal investigation to “get to the bottom” of the scandal. It turns out he may be the bottom.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12206700/site/newsweek/

[NCclimber 0]

Libby got a "Get out of jail free" card...

Bush is still in the White House...

and...

approval numbers for the Democratically controlled Congress remain at historic lows.










It's gotta suck being a lefty.