Airport delays

[diverborg 0]

Sadly this is a lot more common that we hear, and sadly this is just part of flying. My girlfriend was stuck on a plane for almost 9 hours in Omaha while waiting for a window in the weather that never came. They deboarded the plane after 9 hours and cancelled the flight. This was just over new years and this never made the news. I've personally been stuck on the ground for 4 hours and I didn't get any media attention. Yep it sux ass, but you're not gonna die so just chill out. There really is no solution to weather related problems like these because they just want to make schedule so they are trying to keep people happy and catch that window. I would wait on a plane for 4 hours almost in any circumstance if that was the only way to make that flight. Its better than getting canceled, put in a hotel and not even leaving till the next day if ur lucky. Now the no A/C thing I can kinda understand if ur sick or elderly or such. Not sure what they should've done in that situation, but if they thought they'd be airborn soon enough then the a/c wouldn't have mattered in flight.

Now the way I've been treated by the airlines and its employees over other situations is a whole other story. I found out you can flat out talk to your customers like they're your puppy and thats ok these days. Ahhh, thankfully we still have Southwest Airlines. Too bad their schedule and destinations is somewhat limited.

[kelpdiver 2]

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>It's just not that hard to predict the wait time and use a JIT approach to
>sending planes out.

If gates were free. Unfortunately they're not.

What's happening in many cases is that people like to complain. They complain about delays, and breakdowns, and the weather, and that the counter people aren't taking enough time with their problem/taking their problem seriously. They complain that their seats are too small, the bins are too small, the weight limits are too restrictive, the pilots are not accommodating enough. They say that X, Y and Z is completely unacceptable, and that they will get the counter person/flight attendant fired, and that they will never, ever fly this airline again.

sorry, I can't accept this fatalistic view that is all the customers' fault and how dare they complain.

The lack of gates does not preclude other solutions. We used to survive with ramps. And if planes can't leave, how many are coming in? And why is it that these problems only seem to hit some airlines, or individual planes? If the situation was so bad that one plane was stuck for 4 hours, shouldn't there have been numerous others too?

No, the problem is that in the name of safety, and in the post 9/11 environment, passengers have no rights once they get on board, and airlines have no obligation to treat them any better than they do their baggage.

Airports have no trouble tacking on per segment facilties charges on all tickets. If weather plague airports like SFO or Boston need to spend money to handle these issues, then they can go ahead and do so.

[billvon 3,119]

>I can't accept this fatalistic view that is all the customers' fault and
>how dare they complain.

a) it's not any individual customer's fault; it's also (often) not the airline's fault. Sometimes it's weather, and sometimes it's the airline screwing up, but often it's that there are just too many people flying. Blaming the airlines for that is like blaming a stadium when you want to see a team, but they've sold out the game.

b) they can, and do, complain all they like. You are free to complain as well, or to listen to them complain, or to get indignant. That and $5 will get you a Starbucks.

>We used to survive with ramps.

and with the additional employees needed to "guard" the line of people walking back to the terminal. That's generally the problem; losing a six year old to an engine intake is unacceptable to all involved.

>And if planes can't leave, how many are coming in?

?? You do realize they will prioritize landings over takeoffs, since airplanes can get refueled on the ground more easily than in the air, right?

>And why is it that these problems only seem to hit some airlines . . .

Because airlines have hubs, and many airports are much more heavily served by one airline than by others. Delays in San Diego won't hurt United much overall, but delays in O'Hare will.

>or individual planes?

Because individual planes have individual problems. Several times I've been stuck on the ground due to a gate hold, where the aircraft is not allowed to taxi out to avoid congestion at the destination airport. And often aircraft will have specific problems, like an aircraft that is not certified to Cat III approaches and thus cannot deal with bad weather as well.

>If the situation was so bad that one plane was stuck for 4 hours,
>shouldn't there have been numerous others too?

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the situation.

>No, the problem is that in the name of safety, and in the post 9/11
> environment, passengers have no rights once they get on board, and
>airlines have no obligation to treat them any better than they do their
>baggage.

They have the right to choose their carriers. The carrier has a right to conduct business as they see fit. The entitlement attitude won't get you very far in aviation. Voting with your wallet will - but most people do not.

>Airports have no trouble tacking on per segment facilties charges on all
>tickets.

Correct.

>If weather plague airports like SFO or Boston need to spend money to
>handle these issues, then they can go ahead and do so.

Correct again. But like I said, if United tacks on additional charges to make their customers happy (like more employees/more gates etc) everyone will fly a cheaper airline and they will go out of business. Result - few companies will add additional charges to make their customers happy.

Now, if you do it to ALL airlines at a specific airport (like a facilities charge) then no one airline is penalized and the above does not apply.

[kallend 2,150]

I don't agree at all. The airline is supposed to provide a service to its CUSTOMERS. That does not involve treating them like cattle just because of bad weather. Bad weather happens with reasonable predictability and the airlines need to deal with it. Overbooking is clearly the responsibility of the airlines.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rookie120 0]

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I don't agree at all. The airline is supposed to provide a service to its CUSTOMERS. That does not involve treating them like cattle just because of bad weather.

You get what you pay for! People want dirt low airfares then they will get dirt low service. Enjoy your flight.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[kallend 2,150]

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I don't agree at all. The airline is supposed to provide a service to its CUSTOMERS. That does not involve treating them like cattle just because of bad weather.

You get what you pay for! People want dirt low airfares then they will get dirt low service. Enjoy your flight.

Fortunately I have my own plane so rarely have to endure crap from the TSA and airline employees.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rehmwa 2]

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someone blocked a waste line by flushing latex gloves down the toilet

What would someone be doing with a Latex glove in the lavatory?

There's something really unsettling about that bit.

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Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[kallend 2,150]

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someone blocked a waste line by flushing latex gloves down the toilet

What would someone be doing with a Latex glove in the lavatory?

There's something really unsettling about that bit.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Rookie120 0]

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Fortunately I have my own plane so rarely have to endure crap from the TSA and airline employees

Hows that Mooney doing these days? Hope she's been a good girl. Thats a fine plane and a lot of fun to fly.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[Rookie120 0]

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What would someone be doing with a Latex glove in the lavatory?

There's something really unsettling about that bit.

I dont know. But that is what I pulled out of the line on that plane when we got it. What a shitty job and day that was. It could have been a passenger, cleaner, I dont know all I know is the ball of rubber gloves is what clogged the line for good.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck!

[HeadCone 0]

How do I vote with my wallet? Not flying at all isn't always feasible especially on longer trips. Switching airlines/airports just means dealing with the same shit at a different place.

--Head

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Turn off the internet! Join Citizens United Negating Technology For Life And People's Safety!

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[kallend 2,150]

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Fortunately I have my own plane so rarely have to endure crap from the TSA and airline employees

Hows that Mooney doing these days? Hope she's been a good girl. Thats a fine plane and a lot of fun to fly.

She is EXCELLENT. Took a day trip to Mackinac Island, MI, last week (no airline service, 2 hours by Mooney, 7 by car (plus ferry to the island), very pretty flight). Off to Door County, WI, for 4th July holiday (1.5 hours by Mooney, 5+ hours by car depending on traffic, no airline service). Took her to ZHills for the big ways in the spring, 6.8 hours from my front door in Chicago to the DZ, including a fuel stop in Tennessee.

Total maintenance this year: change oil and filter, replace one circuit breaker.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,590]

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I don't agree at all. The airline is supposed to provide a service to its CUSTOMERS.

But there are a lot of different meanings for "service". The airlines just happened to pick #34:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[kallend 2,150]

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I don't agree at all. The airline is supposed to provide a service to its CUSTOMERS.

But there are a lot of different meanings for "service". The airlines just happened to pick #34:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/service

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kelpdiver 2]

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How do I vote with my wallet? Not flying at all isn't always feasible especially on longer trips. Switching airlines/airports just means dealing with the same shit at a different place.

You can now get on-time rates for all scheduled flights. That's supposed to help you vote. But I view the definition of on-time as a bit suspect, and it looks like part of the airliner response was to pad the schedule a bit so they can leave late and still make the initial landing time.

If it really is possible to vote with information, perhaps official statistics can be maintained on passengers imprisoned in planes. I'm quite sure that after one of those experiences, those passengers choose the cheapest fare available that is not on that airline.

[kelpdiver 2]

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?? You do realize they will prioritize landings over takeoffs, since airplanes can get refueled on the ground more easily than in the air, right?

Duh. And yet, if there's bad weather on the West Coast and I'm sitting at SFO, the plane doesn't board until it has a landing slot at Orange County. Somehow they manage to throttle down the number of arriving flights. They don't put us on board and then wait for it.

And Kallend is right - airliners do take on obligations due to their overbooking policy. Why is this any different?