cops vs skaters!

[WeakMindedFool 0]

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Boy, it's nice to be educated about a situation before you speak. It prevents you looking like an ass, and lets you predict the outcome far more effectively than ignorant follks.

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=nation_world&id=5445837
http://www.arktimes.com/blogs/arkansasblog/2007/07/cop_cleared.aspx
http://www.nwaonline.net/articles/2007/07/04/news/070507arskate.txt

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Police Officer Cleared in Skateboard Choking Case

LITTLE ROCK (AP) - July 3, 2007 - A police officer who appeared to choke a skateboarder and put two others in a headlock in a video posted online used appropriate force when making his arrests, an internal police investigation found.

The Hot Springs Police Department Internal Affairs Board found the use of force was within the police department's policy on non-deadly force and recommended "no changes to this policy." The decision was released Monday.

Officer Joey Williams confronted a situation that "would have overwhelmed any single officer" when he stopped those breaking a Hot Springs city ordinance by skateboarding on a downtown sidewalk June 21, the report said.

However, Williams was faulted for leaving a handcuffed suspect unattended while chasing another youth in the resort town's historic Bathhouse Row.

Williams has been on administrative leave since the video hit YouTube on June 25. Police said he would return to active duty Thursday in the city's downtown.
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Umm Dude...you may want to read those articles before you post them as supporting your point of view. They don't all cast a positive light on your boys.

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
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[Kennedy 0]

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I saw the video. Children don't need to be treated that way for skateboarding. That dipshit cop used excessive force considering the nature of the infraction. Had they been spraypainting city hall or breaking storefront windows, that would be different.

I don't understand why grown adults don't have a better understanding than teenagers on the scene. I understand if they were too ignorant, agitated, and stressed to understand, but adults after the fact should be able to comprhend that kids were not grabbed by the throat for skateboarding.

They were placed undersrrest for city code violation, fleeing, resisting arrest, interferring with law enforcement, and possible more, depending on the jurisdiction. People, you need to pull your collective head out of your ass and pay attention. THe kids escalated the situation to to point of violence. If they had just done as they were told, they would;ve either been given a verbal warning or a citation. No big deal, no one would;ve ended up on the ground, and there wouldn't have been any problems. However, they just had to mouth off, run, fight, and interfere. Sorry folks, but regardless of what the original offence is, if you do all that, you're going to jail, whether you want to or not.

Hell, I'm not even sure everyone here knows which one was the female. The first suspect, the one in the still picture on his back with the cop on top of him, is a MALE. He is NOT being choked, he is being held down by his shirt. The only accusations of choking come from an unintended position the cop finds himself in with two suspects (one of which has a blond pony tail and is over 18) and the "hold" lasts for about a second and a half.

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Like I said, if they were my kids, I'd use some excessive force of my own, with extreme prejudice.

well, at least we agree the "kids" need some kind of discipline or intervention. I put kids in quotes because aparently two of them are over 18.

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Or maybe I'd slash the tires on his POS camaro. Whatever. He shouldn't be the cop patrolling the skateboarder beat. Let him try those tactics on some drug dealers - I'd be just fine with that.

That's NOT the skateboarder beat. That's the downtown beat, where skateboarding is illegal.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
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[Kennedy 0]

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If anyone else had done that they'd be in jail on all sorts of charges.

It is unbelievable that some folks are willing to accept and excuse because someone is wearing a badge.

That's because the law gives cops the right to use force to overcome force. Here in North Carolina, it's G.S. 15A-401(d). Look it up, your state and every other has a similar law. It says when a cop makes an arrest, he can use force to (A) defend himself and (B) overcome force used to resist the arrest.

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When you run around justifying any misconduct and saying that "we don't know what went before the video" despite the plain evidence before us every time a cop is out of control you just invite more contempt for better officers in uniform.

Why don't you tell us about your "plain evidence." Go on, tell us what you know about what happened before the cop was rolling around on the ground trying to put the handcuffs on the kid. Let the rest of us know what you seem to have miraculously divined.

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Go ahead name call, but there are better ways to police and you really don't need amped up jackbooted thugs on a testosterone rush choking out kids like that. There was nothing that merited that use of force but it seems almost endemic in some police forces

Right, you're the epitome of unbiased observer, and have no axes to grind with law enforcement.

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People who think "my kids are better" or these were bad kids committing misdimeanors are naive, they were skateboarding and that has an appropriate punnishment. They'll throw the book at these kids for this just to cover that cop's ass, when they were damned right to be afraid of him for what he was doing. They skateboarded on a sidewalk, he used excessive force and assaulted minors. Which is worse in your book? A badge does not justify this.

Hey, TRY TO KEEP UP. YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT WENT ON BEFORE THE VIDEO CAMERA CAUGHT UP. Why do you think the cop had the kid on the ground. Do you think that the cop yanked him off the board and threw him on the ground for no reason? Newsflash: cops don't arrest people on the ground unless they resist or they are wanted on felony warrrants.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

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This guy hit Rodney 24 times in the arm with his baton...and didn't break the arm. This was a man who was so out of control that he couldn't inflict the harm he so obviously wanted to. He had 24 tries at it and couldn't do the damage.

You've got to be kidding me, right? While it's pretty widely accepted that the cops who arrested King did NOT do it right, you have got to be joking with that logic.

Police are taught to use their baton is way that does NOT cause serious bodily injury. Breaking major bones qualifies are serious injury. The leg and arm are first level striking targets. They can be struck, causing major pain and possible loss of movement, without permanent damage. Hitting it 24 times is overkill, and the cop should realize that his tactic isn't working and move to another, but I can only laugh at you when you say that because major damage wasn't done, that is your evidence of intent to do major damage.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[WeakMindedFool 0]

No you misunderstand, and it's not my logic it was my instructors. The intent was obvious, as was the LACK of the use of the tools at hand as they were trained...or were you trained to use a double handed grip at the BASE of your PR24? The officer was trying to use a weapon he was trained on in a manner that was not only inconsistent with that training but ineffective as well. You still didn't answer the question...would YOU want these officers as back up? I'm not denying the the arrest was legit with the skater kids rather I'm asking YOU, personally, if you think the manner in which the arrest was conducted shows the level of professionalism you would accept in a partner. Do you really believe this officer was in control of himself?

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[WeakMindedFool 0]

Oh yeah...here's a little crazy guy right back at you

Faith in a holy cause is to a considerable extent a substitute for lost faith in ourselves.
-Eric Hoffer -
Check out these Videos

[Kennedy 0]

And I've alreday said that I know (not think, know) that it's not kosher to leave a handcuffed subject. That was wrong. Also, as far as I can tell, he actually could have used a little bit of higher force to prevent the shenanigans from going on as long as they did. A little oleo capsicum goes a long way with people who are resisting arrest. It's not somehting they tend to forget either.

He let himself get too hyped up. It happens to everyone. If anyone here thinks they can find a single person who doesn't have limits and/or will never find them is dreaming. I don't think he needs more training. I think ALL cops need more training. But all these whiners that want better cops don't want to foot the bill for all that better training. Kind of a Catch 22 for police trainers.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Kennedy 0]

I was thinking about your question; if I were a cop and worked the same department as that officer, would I want him to back me up.

Well, here's the thing... when a cop goes into a situation, he has to be in control. Not just of himself, but of the entire situation. That's the way it has to go down, period. That's why it's against the law to resist cops. It's not that telling an authority figure "no" or "go fuck yourself" is so terrible in and of itself. It's that there aren't enough cops to physically outnumber and over power every situation a cop goes into. Cops need to be able to run the show, no matter how many players are involved. The old "One Riot, One Ranger" concept.

The other option is to have a true police state, where cops outnumber everyone else, always, and any violation, no matter how small, with no escalation, leads to beatins, re-eduation camps, and so on. (think a cross between 1984, Brave New World, Nazi Germany, and V for Vendetta)

So, as you may understand but others obviously don't, a cop responding to a scene has to remain in control, not because he's some sort of control freak, or because he gets off on bossing people around, but because that's his job and there's no other way to do it.

To answer your question, if I were a cop and needed back up, I'd take who ever would show up to help. Lord knows there are few enough people who run towards danger. If I were there, and things were so bad I needed more than one cop, I'd take anyone brave enough to wear a badge for help.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[birdlike 0]

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I agree with you on one point. He should not have left the first one that he handcuffed. I'm sure that's the largest part of why he is on admin duty after then incident.

I read in the newspaper that that's exactly what the cop caught shit for. Once he has a suspect in custody, doesn't it stand to reason that the cop is responsible for the suspect's well-being? I mean, what if someone came up and did something to a handcuffed suspect, because the cop left him standing there totally vulnerable?

Spirits fly on dangerous missions
Imaginations on fire

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[Zipp0 1]

Well, be that as it may, these kids now know that "Officer friendly" Is a hoax, and will be much more wary of the police in the future, and probably much smarter in dealing with them. When they see the cops they will do what we did as kids - all run in different directions!

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Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down.

[Zenister 0]

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He let himself get too hyped up. It happens to everyone. If anyone here thinks they can find a single person who doesn't have limits and/or will never find them is dreaming.

agreed, but here is the kicker.. This guys 'limits' are far to low for him to wield the power and authority he does. It wasnt a life threatening situation, or a time critical event. He made multiple bad judgement calls in a short period of time and he was dealing with KIDS who were OMG SKATEBOARDING!!!! so lets take his example and imagine how this poorly trained LEO would react in an ACTUAL EMERGENCY with real, combative criminals who arent going away without a 'real fight'.

and you STILL want him as back up?

he needs to be relieved of duty as he clearly doesnt have the self control or ability necessary to deal with the kinds of stressful situations that he could conceivable encounter DAILY!

But as always, "you get what you pay for" and the pay for most LEO's means the 'best and brightest' applicants will be the exceptions and not the norm...

Its social engineering at its worst. Society wants competent trained professionals, but pays the fuck all for them in many critical roles, (military, LE, FD etc) and so has a significantly smaller pool of qualified applicants to chose from.

Still it's hard to believe this guys 'limits' were not tested more thoroughly so he was weeded out in the training process...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[dorbie 0]

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Right, you're the epitome of unbiased observer, and have no axes to grind with law enforcement.

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People who think "my kids are better" or these were bad kids committing misdimeanors are naive, they were skateboarding and that has an appropriate punnishment. They'll throw the book at these kids for this just to cover that cop's ass, when they were damned right to be afraid of him for what he was doing. They skateboarded on a sidewalk, he used excessive force and assaulted minors. Which is worse in your book? A badge does not justify this.

Hey, TRY TO KEEP UP. YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT WENT ON BEFORE THE VIDEO CAMERA CAUGHT UP. Why do you think the cop had the kid on the ground. Do you think that the cop yanked him off the board and threw him on the ground for no reason? Newsflash: cops don't arrest people on the ground unless they resist or they are wanted on felony warrrants.

Actually I don't have an axe to grind, I was brought up to respect cops, I've never been on the wrong side of the law excluding traffic tickets, my brother-in-law is a great cop whom I admire and my uncle was a cop. But to see the conduct of some officers in the USA and the jingoism and closed ranks every single time they run amok is just shocking. Maybe I'm used to better conduct and have higher expectations of cops than you.

I respect the law and those who enforce it, but I wasn't spoon-fed a diet of anything goes and support the thin-blue-line at all costs bullshit from the cradle.

In summary, your assumption that anyone who has an issue with law enforcement in one instance is somehow in the anti-cop camp is WAY off the mark.

We don't know what went on before the video but there's ample material on the video showing a thug abusing teenage kids because he's lost his temper. Cops cannot use unreasonable/unjustified force. The classic fig leaf of what happened before the video just doesn't cut it here, there's too much actually on the video for that to fly.

You should be reticent about defending this conduct, I wonder if it's just rank closing bullshit of if you're saying you yourself would act like the unprofessional ass-clown with a badge in the video. Surely not.

[Snowflake 0]

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YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT WENT ON BEFORE THE VIDEO CAMERA CAUGHT UP.

The truly funny part is that you don't either. Yet you act like you know what happened based on police SOP.


My retort is

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YOU HAVE NO FUCKING IDEA WHAT WENT ON BEFORE THE VIDEO CAMERA CAUGHT UP.