KJM 0
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mnealtx 0
Do you REALLY think that getting the government involved is going to make it cost LESS money???
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
KJM 0
Maybe Im being foolish, but yes I do. The reality is that the government is already involved in healthcare. It spends billions every year just trying to decide who does and does not get it. There are so many different departments its ridiculous. Just streamlining would save alot. Duplicating HMO's and eliminating lawsuits and going to arbitration could save much also. Maybe Im being prejudiced, but if so many other countries can do it succesfully, I have to think America could do it better! Shit even Iraq has government sponsored healthcare, and guess who is paying for it.
mnealtx 0
KJM 0
like I said, Canada is not a system I would want to duplicate. The other link talked about the European system being stressed. Our system is going bankrupt also. The only people truly benefitting from our system is the healthcare CEO's pulling in 7 figure incomes. Pleasing everyone is gonna be a tough task. Anyways Im out of here for the weekend, it was nice talkin with ya
mnealtx 0
Have a good weekend!
Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706
DSE 5
QuoteMichael Moore should go to Canada and talk to the people there who can't get any decent healthcare in a timely fashion before making a movie that claims that we should nationalize our healthcare system like the Canadians so that everyone can be covered. What a damn idiot. It stands to reason that if you add 40 million more people to a system who are not going to pay for the services they will receive from that system, the only thing that will happen is a great decline in the quality and quantity of services for all participants, whether you are providing healthcare or popsicles. Moore is a Moron.
I for one am proud of the fact that the USA as a whole has not yet succumbed to the socialist pressure to have a socialized healthcare system, even when all the idiots keep stating that we are the only developed nation in the world without socialized medical care. That is because we are smart enough to look at the abysmal failure of the healthcare systems of Germany, France, England, Canada, Australia, Sweden, Russia, ETC ETC ETC in providing anything close to the ideal of proper healthcare for all. Moore's pandering to the left and gross misinformation and spin doctoring of every subject he has ever documented makes him a liar and a fool, not a crusader for justice.
Uh....go see the film before making such silly statements. At least 10% of the film takes place in Canada.
[Uh....go see the film before making such silly statements. At least 10% of the film takes place in Canada.
You make my point about Mr. Moore, Douglas. The Canadian healthcare system is in shambles...anyone that reports truthfully about their situation would have to show the bad side of their system as well as the "good" side. I don't have to go see that movie to have a pretty good idea that Moore probably does not honestly report on the fact that the Canadian healthcare system shuts down about December 10th every year because they are out of money until Jan. 1. He probably does not report on the tens of thousands of more affluent Canadians who after paying outrageous income taxes to fund their inefficient healthcare system still come to the United States every year to have needed surgeries and other medical care because they are tired of waiting for an operation or even an appointment to see a doctor for their condition because they are low on the list of rationed care recipients. If he touts the virtues of the Canadian system but leaves out the downside of the "sickos" of the Canadian system, then he is again a LIAR and a SPIN DOCTOR, not an honest crusader for justice.
Just burning a hole in the sky.....
DSE 5
No, I don't "make your point" because you haven't seen the film.
First, he doesn't portray the Canadian system as being a great role model. Nor does he sugges that it's the best thing ever. But it is an alternative that somewhat works, which is better than nothing.
My point was, and still is....go see the film.
Commenting on a film that you haven't seen is just as absurd as a wuffo trying to tell a skydiver about relative work.
First, he doesn't portray the Canadian system as being a great role model. Nor does he sugges that it's the best thing ever. But it is an alternative that somewhat works, which is better than nothing.
My point was, and still is....go see the film.
Commenting on a film that you haven't seen is just as absurd as a wuffo trying to tell a skydiver about relative work.
sundevil777 102
Quote[Uh....go see the film before making such silly statements. At least 10% of the film takes place in Canada.
You make my point about Mr. Moore, Douglas. The Canadian healthcare system is in shambles...anyone that reports truthfully about their situation would have to show the bad side of their system as well as the "good" side. I don't have to go see that movie to have a pretty good idea that Moore probably does not honestly report on the fact that the Canadian healthcare system shuts down about December 10th every year because they are out of money until Jan. 1. He probably does not report on the tens of thousands of more affluent Canadians who after paying outrageous income taxes to fund their inefficient healthcare system still come to the United States every year to have needed surgeries and other medical care because they are tired of waiting for an operation or even an appointment to see a doctor for their condition because they are low on the list of rationed care recipients. If he touts the virtues of the Canadian system but leaves out the downside of the "sickos" of the Canadian system, then he is again a LIAR and a SPIN DOCTOR, not an honest crusader for justice.
Quite right! I've read much about people having to wait months for heart bypass operations, because their case wasn't critical enough. In the US, hospitals compete with each other to have you get your operation done at their facility. The only delay is usually to get the patient ready for the operation. Similar stories of delayed treatment for cancer and other serious illnesses is common in the Canadian papers. A friend told me of how hard she had to fight to get doctors to finally approve her son for tubes in his ears (to treat his chronic ear infections). So, you can get routine care easily enough, but what good is that if you are told you have cancer/whatever, and then you know that going to the US for care will give you better treatment - you're likely to spend all the money you have to get the best rather than hope what you'll get in Canada will be good enough. I remember a story in a Toronto paper in 1999 that said Pittsburgh had more MRI machines than all of the Ontario province. Even my little town of 15,000 people had an MRI machine in its hospital at the time.
One improvement I think would help (I can't remember where I first heard this): Remove the expectation for employers to provide health care (and have workers get that money as wages instead), and have people buy it themselves through group policies managed by associations such as USPA, bowling association, pilots association, labor union, automobile association, kennel club association, or whatever large, private group that people are members of by choice. There would no longer be the problem of losing health insurance due to losing your job. It is the power of the large numbers of a group that allows large companies to provide good health insurance, that large group is also available to the huge numbers of people that are members of the American Bowling Association, so it should work, and you'd have a choice of such groups to pick from to buy your coverage.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am
Amazon 7
The problem comes in with the people who do not have insurance.. those that cannot afford the insurance and their companies.. do not provide it...
They are the working poor.....the indigent getter treatment in many cases.. or those on welfare... because then the states in most cases kick in and pay for them.... which means YOU and I are paying for them.
They are the working poor.....the indigent getter treatment in many cases.. or those on welfare... because then the states in most cases kick in and pay for them.... which means YOU and I are paying for them.
DSE 5
QuoteThe problem comes in with the people who do not have insurance.. those that cannot afford the insurance and their companies.. do not provide it...
They are the working poor.....the indigent getter treatment in many cases.. or those on welfare... because then the states in most cases kick in and pay for them.... which means YOU and I are paying for them.
This is a big point in the film. Indigent people, criminals, illegals etc get better treatment at no cost than those of us that pay for our insurance either through HMO's or outright payment.
Insurance companies coupled with dishonest doctors and patients are responsible for high costs, toss ambulance chasers in there and it skyrockets.
Look at the situation in Utah last week; inmate goes for his THIRD MRI because "his back hurts." He shoots/kills a guard, and gets away for a few hours. His medical records were released as part of the "investigation." Turns out the state has spent nearly 90K on just him alone over the past 3 years. My insurance provider would/could drop me in a heartbeat if I needed that kind of cash.
If nothing else (and this is where I think Moore's value liest), this film has people talking, aware, and pissed off.
What I find incredible are the insipid posts by persons who haven't seen the film. I'm incredulous. People that bitch about how uninformed the general media is about skydiving are the same people making uninformed comments about a film that they haven't seen, based on what they've heard in the media.
"I've never seen, touched, tasted, smelled, nor heard a monkey, but I'm an expert on them."
Wow.
Royd 0
And if the inmate had health problems and the state wasn't meeting his requirements, then there would be one more source for a "documentary" by MM to berate the country that gives him the freedom to do so. Sort of ironic, isn't it?QuoteLook at the situation in Utah last week; inmate goes for his THIRD MRI because "his back hurts." He shoots/kills a guard, and gets away for a few hours. His medical records were released as part of the "investigation." Turns out the state has spent nearly 90K on just him alone over the past 3 years. My insurance provider would/could drop me in a heartbeat if I needed that kind of cash.
If nothing else (and this is where I think Moore's value liest), this film has people talking, aware, and pissed off.
to each his own, personally I am really tired of watching my premiums go up 20% a year, and am willing to try something new. About the only country Ive heard nightmare stories about is Canada and their system. So maybe that would be a good example of lets not do it like that!
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