NCclimber 0 #126 June 21, 2007 QuoteI would have at least 1 child but maybe 2 (2 abortions = poor birth control discipline) if it were not for abortion, I was not in love with the girl You might want to be a little reflective the next time you're inclined to criticize another poster's acuity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #127 June 21, 2007 People who don't have a lot of regrets don't dwell on it as much. It's in the past. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You mean like those who don't want to get stretch marks or have to give up the party life? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI'm curious as to what business you think it is of yours (or mine, or the government's) what decisions a woman makes about her body, and what her reasons may be.My point is that any woman who can have an abortion simply for the sake of vanity or convenience, and shows no sign of the gravity of the action that she has taken, is, indeed, a very shallow person. I believe that in a few years there is going to be a lot of opposition to abortion by women who have had one, and realize exactly what they have done. Many womens' organizations want abortion to be the first solution to the problem. Anything less sheds light on their true politcal agenda. It is a sad commentary on the moral direction of this country. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #128 June 21, 2007 QuoteI believe that in a few years there is going to be a lot of opposition to abortion by women who have had one, and realize exactly what they have done. I doubt that many women who have abortions will want to come forward into the public spotlight."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #129 June 21, 2007 QuotePeople who don't have a lot of regrets don't dwell on it as much. It's in the past. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You mean like those who don't want to get stretch marks or have to give up the party life? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI'm curious as to what business you think it is of yours (or mine, or the government's) what decisions a woman makes about her body, and what her reasons may be.My point is that any woman who can have an abortion simply for the sake of vanity or convenience, and shows no sign of the gravity of the action that she has taken, is, indeed, a very shallow person. I believe that in a few years there is going to be a lot of opposition to abortion by women who have had one, and realize exactly what they have done. Many womens' organizations want abortion to be the first solution to the problem. Anything less sheds light on their true politcal agenda. It is a sad commentary on the moral direction of this country. Try again: I'm curious as to what business you think it is of yours (or mine, or the government's) what decisions a woman makes about her body, and what her reasons may be.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #130 June 21, 2007 I am sure there are right wing pro life groups that will be happy to post the information if they can get their hands on it from local clinics tho haver performed them. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #131 June 21, 2007 QuoteI am sure there are right wing pro life groups that will be happy to post the information if they can get their hands on it from local clinics tho haver performed them. I believe there is a difference between many woman who have had abortions coming forward against abortions and a group against abortions posting the names of woman who have had abortions. Don't you?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #132 June 21, 2007 QuoteAbout whether women who have had abortions have a deep and lasting regret (I don't think most do). QuoteHere's a survey of women who had abortions From the website with the survey: Quotethis was a survey of women who had some involement with Women Exploited By Abortion, a peer support group for women who were experiencing negative post-abortion reaction. Because this is a self-selected sample of the those who had a "bad experience" these findings should not be interpreted as representative of a random sample of all women who have had abortions Not representative. How many dz.com folks would think that skydiving is fun and relaxing? Now compare that to the general population. People who don't have a lot of regrets don't dwell on it as much. It's in the past. Wendy W. How about this study: http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1469-7610.2005.01538.x?cookieSet=1&journalCode=jcpp Here's an interesting article on the study and the author:http://www.nrlc.org/news/2006/NRL12/Depression.html Apparently his study is a threat to the status quo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
yjumpinoz 0 #133 June 21, 2007 Please see my earlier response. I think if were me and my wife/ex-wife was making that choice for me, then it would be my business... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #134 June 21, 2007 Providing these statistics to women who are contemplating an abortion may prevent some women from getting an abortion. However, do you believe people are more likely to listen to someone whose message is "do as I do" or "do as I say, not as I do"?"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NCclimber 0 #135 June 21, 2007 My point was to show that emotional/psychological impact to women having abortions is greater than previously thought. Based on the article on the last link I posted, it seems to be quite a taboo subject. Don't let people know about the emotional trauma associated with abortion. It's a simple, out-patient proceedure. No biggie! Trust us. Go read what the pro-choice, atheist author said about his difficulties in getting his study published. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #136 June 21, 2007 QuotePlease see my earlier response. I think if were me and my wife/ex-wife was making that choice for me, then it would be my business... So the decision should stay in the family, then. No reason for the government to be involved.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 2,148 #137 June 21, 2007 QuoteProviding these statistics to women who are contemplating an abortion may prevent some women from getting an abortion. However, do you believe people are more likely to listen to someone whose message is "do as I do" or "do as I say, not as I do"? There's a very large body of research on post partum depression. Motherhood brings its own problems. So does raising a child.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #138 June 21, 2007 QuoteTry again: I'm curious as to what business you think it is of yours (or mine, or the government's) what decisions a woman makes about her body, and what her reasons may be. As much as it is looking around at my fellow jumpers chest straps sometime before they leave the airplane.What are the chances of it actually causing me harm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Royd 0 #139 June 21, 2007 I believe that in a few years there is going to be a lot of opposition to abortion by women who have had one, and realize exactly what they have done. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- QuoteI doubt that many women who have abortions will want to come forward into the public spotlight. So you're saying that despite the 'It's my body, my business' mind set, deep down, they know that it's a shameful thing which they have done? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #140 June 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteI doubt that many women who have abortions will want to come forward into the public spotlight. So you're saying that despite the 'It's my body, my business' mind set, deep down, they know that it's a shameful thing which they have done? I was referring to the women that regret having an abortion."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #141 June 21, 2007 Howzabout we put it on the table. I've had an elective abortion. It was the right thing to do, and I don't have any serious regrets. It was 25 years ago, so that's unlikely to change, too. What the circumstances were are not really anyone's business but mine and my then-husband's, and we talked about it and agreed it was the best path. I realize that's a sample size of one, but it's matched by the people I know who have had abortions, and is at least as scientific as a self-selected sample among women who already regret it. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Butters 0 #142 June 21, 2007 I will clarify my earlier statement because I believe it is being misunderstood. I do not believe that a large amount of women who have had abortions that they regret would be willing to come forward in an effort to make abortions illegal."That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #143 June 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteThe longer answer is that in The World According to Don, abortion would be legal for anyone for any reason up to the average age of sentience. I agree, abortions should be allowed to be done on a person up to (on average) the age of 27 years old. Some limited to quite a bit before that, some can pretty well be aborted through their entire life. You been hanging around too many freeflyers?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
smiles 0 #144 June 21, 2007 Quote There are enough under privileged children in this world and we do not need more. If both parents do not wish to raise the child and the child is terminated before too long then in my opinion there is nothing wrong with abortion. Do you feel the same about disabled/handicapped children? Right not to be born? What constitutes a "right" is a complex question. On one interpretation, rights protect interests. Is it better to be dead than have Down’s syndrome? Some people do believe that Down’s syndrome constitutes a life not worth living. Children with Down’s syndrome can and often do lead happy and worthwhile lives. Regardless, parents have the right to terminate the pregnancy. Are babies at the mercy of ultrasound scans and what they may disclose? Terminations are being carried out for minor, treatable birth defects like deafness, blindness, dwarfism, cleft palates and defective limbs. In some cases, the aborted children aren't disabled at all but are mere carriers of a disease or stand a chance of getting one later in life. Late terminations have been performed in recent years (UK) because the babies had club feet. Is abortion increasingly being used to satisfy couples' desire for the 'perfect' baby? Are we turning into a society that can no longer tolerate imperfection? Doctors were recently told they can now screen IVF embryos to try to weed out inherited cancers…. The right to abort a disabled child, in other words, is approaching the status of a duty to abort a disabled child. Parents who abort their disabled children won't be asked to justify their decision. Rather, it is the parents with disabled children who must justify themselves to a society that tacitly asks: Why did you bring into the world a child you knew was disabled or might become disabled? The brain and spinal cord of a fetus develop during the first 28 days of pregnancy. During my second pregnancy I went for usual ultrasounds for head size. At 28 weeks I was told there was concern- so I was sent for more tests. Due to improved ultrasounds and tests Spina bifida & hydrocephalus was diagnosed for my son, Leland. By this time, permanent damage was already done and all doctors informed me that my child would not survive birth. I was offered the choice of termination of my pregnancy. At this time overwhelmed with emotions I made the decision to follow through with termination and was admitted to hospital. The morning of the procedure the head of the hospital came to inform me that the hospital would not perform the procedure considered "abortion" (the chance of being sued after the procedure was in question.) I was discharged and I carried my child to full term, even though a few weeks later it was confirmed they would terminate my pregnancy at another children's hospital in the city. Adequate folate levels are critical during the early days of the developing embryo, particularly the 3rd and 4th week. It is in this period that neural tube defects occur. Because most women do not realize that they are pregnant this early in the pregnancy and because most pregnancies are unplanned, it is important that all women of childbearing age ensure that they are consuming sufficient folate or folic acid. It was difficult carrying my son alive and kicking strong- with no chance of his survival at birth. Leland died at birth weighing 8 lbs. I cuddled my beautiful son, perfect in all outer appearance. I do believe holding him was so very important for my grieving process and feel if I had terminated the pregnancy early on- my grieving process would not have been natural, unless his death was natural. I was informed after genetic testing to have another child and did get pregnant soon after a long grieving process. Giving birth to my third son who was scanned so often with all positive results, I couldn't count the times I was informed of him being "perfectly healthy." SMiles Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #145 June 21, 2007 QuoteYou been hanging around too many freeflyers? you can never hang around too many freefliers, it makes one look more handsome in comparison ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #146 June 21, 2007 QuoteQuoteAt the point where the fetus is capable of conscious thought, when it is likely (or even highly possible) to be aware of itself and surroundings, then it is a conscious human being and should not be terminated. I wonder if it is possible to determine the moment a fetus is capable of conscious thought. Given current knowledge of brain activity, it would be easy to set a conservative latest date for abortion that would not be harming a being that is conscious or has ever been conscious. Probably somewhere around 10 to 15 weeks." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #147 June 21, 2007 QuoteI would love to see an across the board study of every woman who has ever had an abortion, and the number who actually have a deep regret for doing so. I'll bet it's huge. I take it you would only survey those still living. But seriously, that would be a hell of a lot of interviews. A statistically valid representative sample would probably suffice. My guess would be that the number might be huge (as subjective as that term is - some extremist might say 1 is too many), but that the percentage is far below majority. Strictly anecdotal, but the majority of women I know that have had one do not regret it. Some do, but that is hardly a reason to ban abortions. Many people regret getting married. Should we ban marriage?" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,588 #148 June 21, 2007 Quote Many people regret getting married. Should we ban marriage? Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pirana 0 #149 June 21, 2007 QuoteYou just keep telling yourself that. Here's a survey of women who had abortions. http://www.afterabortion.info/survey1.html Some highlights Are you satisfied with your choice today? Not at all -95% Do you feel your decision was well thought out? Not at all - 74% Do you feel you had all of the necessary information to make the decision? Not at all - 88% Would you ever have another abortion? Not at all - 95% Were there any negative psychological effects you attribute to your abortion? Yes - 94% Was post-abortion counseling available through the clinic or referral agency? Not at all - 76% Knowing where your life is today, would you still have chosen abortion? Not at all - 94% Did the clinic, doctor, or counselor help you to explore your decision? Not at all - 84% Were you given information about the biological nature of the fetus? - 90% This two-part question is quite telling: What was your opinion about the nature of the fetus? no answer 4% human 26% non-human 30% other 40% What is your opinion about the nature of the fetus? no answer 3% human 97% non-human 0% other 0% If counseling a friend who was in a situation such as yours, would you encourage her to choose an abortion? Not at all - 98% What are your feelings about abortion today? (negative-1; positive-5) 98% chose 1 (most negative) Did you check the methodology for that survey? The study group consisted entirely of women that had self-identified theirselves as having a problem with having had an abortion. Makes it pretty much meaningless in any discussion about what percent of women regret having an abortion." . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #150 June 21, 2007 QuoteShould we ban marriage? nope, and the government shouldn't pay for it either ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
